Karma has a pretty low win rate vs other supports

Hochelaga··12 votes·2,166 views

Idk, she's my favourite and my win rate with her always fluctuates between 54-58%. I usually play her mid with support items with some okay results.

When I play support with Karma, she feels somewhat lacking. She doesn't have abilities that guarantee a kill for his adc such as Blitz's grab near a tower, or braum's passive stun and slow.

37 Comments

Emo Twink6 votes

I thought she was meant to have a mini rework soon, I hope they havent forgotten about that.

IxtaliKing4 votes

It's because she has no place in the support role, nothing sets her apart (not even damage - Morgana Zilean Zyra Sona Lux ). She'll always either be the best option or a non-option in her current state.

Ariel the Cruel9 votes

She has no place anywhere. She has some nice things going for her, but her cohesion is a train wreck.

Karma has 3 viable builds with 1 skill each and 2 skills that just... Exist. That in and of itself should be a red flag.

IxtaliKing1 votes

100% agree.

ARE YOU PC BRO2 votes

Agreed, be on the look out for the other outspoken Karma mains that mention her on the boards. Upvoted

Bonipherus2 votes

They can't straight buff her since her whole kit is just a giant middle finger to anything melee. she needs bigger changes. also riot has real trouble balancing champs without actual ultimate abilities like Nidalee Jayce Udyr

Flawless Fetus2 votes

Really? Wouldn't have guessed that. She's my go to ban. Lol. Her damage is really high for a "traditional" support champ. Her shielding is also insane. Would not have guessed that she's weak right now. If I'm not and face one, I have to try and survive the lane. If I'm mid/jg and they have one, I can't kill their carries. I feel a bit noob for finding a 'weak champ so op :(

IxtaliKing2 votes

She's not a "traditional" support, that's why she has that damage.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Meh. She's way more like lulu/nami than she is brand/zyra. She's more of an enchanter than a mage is what I meant.

IxtaliKing2 votes

And that's why she's having problems, Karma has always been a utility mage, but then a Rioter decided to put her in the Lulu play space. Karma is for both solo and duo lanes like Morgana, "traditional" supports (Janna Nami SorakaSona ) have too much utility to solo lane fairly - so they're not typically allowed.

Karma is supposed to be a Battlemage/Enchanter hybrid.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

'Always' being prerework? I could be stupid, but I don't recall her being played outside of bot much, since the rework, except for cheese strats - like tank karma top. Lol.

IxtaliKing1 votes

Karma both before and after the rework was played a lot in solo lanes building AP. Karma has always been more effective when building AP, that's why she tends to have a higher W/R in mid than bot. The only time she has a positive W/R in bot is when she's broken and is pick/ban in competitive.

Pre-rework Karma apparently was played more in solo lanes because of how gold dependent she was, her rework just opened up bot as a viable option for her.

Edit: Also, the top lane tank Karma cheese strat only really became a thing after 5.10 since the removal of the Renewal (RW) damage component. All that remained after that was the RW's missing HP scalings with no real incentive to build AP.

Attticus Finch2 votes

They gutted her shields a couple seasons ago because she fucked shit up at Worlds, then left her in that state. Because of how oppressive her E and R->E are in coordinated play, expect her to be deliberately bad for awhile.

DarkKatalyst2 votes

I agree 100%. I recently started playing Karma support a lot, and I don't feel like I'm contributing anything significant to my team. What makes matters worse, because of the way her stun works, I have to get in the danger zone a lot and that results in me dying more often than I should as support.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

*snare.

Evenstar2 votes

To be honest, we should be happy Meddler hasn't spoken about that Karma rework so soon. I reckon it's because the team is deciding between a large update vs. a small update.

Irelia's update should hit in May, so I assume Karma's will come along after that. The fact that they deliberately left the next update after Irelia empty goes to show they're putting a lot of thought in to the next rework. And given how silent they are about it, if it's Karma, I'm willing to assume its now a full scale update, which is good.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

Isn't current schedule new champ (void marksman, already teased), Irelia, Aatrox, Akali, prob another new champ before or after Aatrox and prob Nunu next?

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/2018/01/champion-roadmap-january-2018/

also:

{quoted}

I would say the current pool after Akali/Irelia are

DrMundo Corki Chogath Fiddlesticks Kayle Kennen KogMaw Nocturne Mordekaiser Nunu Pantheon Rammus Skarner Shaco Udyr Volibear

These are the ones we generally discuss talk about these days when we go into early ideation on new VGUs. Some more then others, but all of these would make sense at this point, for various reasons. Obviously Kayle would be paired with a Morgana, should we end up working on her.

from here

Shirvallah2 votes

{quoted}

To be honest, we should be happy Meddler hasn't spoken about that Karma rework so soon. I reckon it's because the team is deciding between a large update vs. a small update.

Irelia's update should hit in May, so I assume Karma's will come along after that. The fact that they deliberately left the next update after Irelia empty goes to show they're putting a lot of thought in to the next rework. And given how silent they are about it, if it's Karma, I'm willing to assume its now a full scale update, which is good.

By full scale update, do you mean a full VGU or just a full GU? If you mean full VGU, do you think they'd keep the most recently updated splashes the same? They're so beautiful as they are.

But if it were me, frankly, I'd be happy if it were even just a gameplay update. I've played Karma less and less these days because she's starting to bore me, and there are much better, consistent options as far as support picks go. :(

Kivolan2 votes

There are many other champions who do her job way better in every way, with additional added perks.

Building her as an Enchanter? Why pick Karma when you can pick Lulu or Janna?

Building her for damage? Why pick Karma when you can pick... Well, literally any other champion.

Building her tanky for CC? Why pick Karma when you can pick Morgana, Blitzcrank, Braum or Thresh?

Feel Apathy1 votes

They nerfed all the items she uses in the bot lane, no wonder she's bad.

That and the rise of Lulric/kench/braum/alistar again means you can't poke for kills or risk a 2v2 which you'll lose to the superior aftershock/guardian talents when compared to aery.

Swarovsko1 votes

Meddler said they were going to look at her and give her a GU after preseason but Riot is slow as a slug (as usual) and they still need to work on LB and Aatrox.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Take in mind with the upcoming AP changes, what with Luden's being a first buy. Karma will be a possible pick mid lane now.

Iffy Jarl1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5EMmvZt7,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-02-12T23:11:55.903+0000)

Take in mind with the upcoming AP changes, what with Luden's being a first buy. Karma will be a possible pick mid lane now.

karma already is a viable mid pick

Sõna1 votes

level1 Karma, 20 Armor.

Hauling Ashe1 votes

Karma is a bitch. And I mean that for real. When she's in a "good" state, she is oppressive and makes teeth pulling seem fun. She is the epitome of ability spamming.

y0r1ck1 votes

Teeth pulling is a blast every time! For the surgeon that is.

ZapMyHeart1 votes

That's what happens when you give a champion rework to some new designer who doesn't know what the hell the champion previously did and rushed it on top of that.

Ratbert1 votes

Well she does have her w. If you manage to land w>r>q you can pretty easily pick up a kill. Her poke is great if you hit your r>q too.

aqours fanboy1 votes

If they made her stronger she would be perma'd.

A kit that basically is spammy spammy spam.

Bot lane nor mid lane wants Karma in the meta unless they main her.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

She is a abomination that asshats take to screw over top. Tank Karma is cancer, and if you don't think so? Play it your self or watch SoloRenektonOnly play that disgusting crap.

Colgate Gator1 votes

That's kind of the thing, she's an all rounder support, so her own winrate fluctuates when other classes are more dominant.

chipndip11 votes

A lot of people here mean well, but they're talking nonsense based on guesses.

The real reason why Karma is doing poorly is because Riot thought she'd be op with item 3174 and preemptively nerfed her (I think they hit her shield values again). She tanked in performance and Riot hasn't touched her since.

IxtaliKing1 votes

But for what reason did they believe she'd be op with item 3174 ?

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

But for what reason did they believe she'd be op with item 3174 ?

I have no fucking idea.

DaPeps1 votes

Yeah I agree. It makes me sad to see my favourite champion this way. I usually feel like she’s less then the enemy support, what shouldn’t happen.

KlydeFrog1 votes

her root and she has some strong assss poke

Yelo1 votes

What do you think of her now with the new ap items? I think Karma is just fine now.

I have been a karma main since season 4. It's true that last season she was nerfed too hard. But after that other utility mages gor nerfed too. Now with the new items I have been able to go almost full AP on her. With that my winrate jumped up to 70% with karma.

It's true she lacks utility to be a support like that, but I like to use her as a control mage type champion. It just takes a while to master her fully and know which ability to empower on a certain situation. For example people forget how insane the heal of her mantra W can be when you are low, so you can use that to bait alot.

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