Sion feels clunky right now

Maple Crusader·Nov 7, 2015·54 votes·3,622 views

http://pre10.deviantart.net/2f87/th/pre/f/2014/269/5/1/sion_s_forgotten_by_monsterkingofkarmen-d80nsfo.jpg

The numerous nerfs and the nerf to Cinderhulk has left him terribly gimped. I'm okay with his E's current state, but the Soul Furnace nerf has to be reverted. I can never re-activate it before it gets broken.

38 Comments

NebuulNov 7, 201525 votes

Have you noticed how the audio cue for soul furnace still makes you think it should be detonated after 2 seconds?

TurquoiseYoshiNov 7, 201520 votes

Yeah, it's just a shitty shield right now.

Doctor DymentNov 7, 20154 votes

He always felt clunky and slow. But right now, he feels awkward to play. All of his abilities are in a good spot save for his god damn shield. Fix the shield and maybe a few number tweaks and he'll be right as rain.

DrNovaNov 8, 20154 votes

I'd be happy just with the revert of shield activation nerf. It was uneeded then and with item changes its worse now.

Olath QuortekNov 8, 20153 votes

Sion is clunky because he is supposed to be clunky (just look at him) and Soul Furnace should be just as hard to land as the rest of his abilities. That being said I don't think he's in a bad spot and can be played in a variety of positions effectively. If you're having trouble with his Soul Furnace I'd suggest activating it early while ulting, as your charging/right before you drop your Q, or right before you disengage for a couple seconds with E. If your in the middle of a teamfight (or even a smaller skirmish) and just randomly activate your W without any kind of plan to keep it up long enough to burst it then it should be broken.

dapositivevikingNov 8, 20151 votes

he has a slow, telgraphed kit which is fair for all the strength it brings when landed but tat doesnt mean the shield nerf was completely necessary. early game he lost the trading power which is always fair for how powerful in the later game he is, but it still having effects into the mid/late game isn't good in my opinion.

Olath QuortekNov 8, 20152 votes

I disagree. The nerf was healthy for him in both early and mid/late game. It forces him to put more thought into his ability usage and allows for more counterplay.

CrushforceXNov 11, 20151 votes

Olath QuortekNov 12, 20151 votes

Thank you sir! :D

/bow

dapositivevikingNov 19, 20151 votes

i find it's hard to put more thought into a shield that at rank 1 is popped by 3-4 minions :s but i'm probably playing wrong

why are you so eloquent and mannered gosh

Olath QuortekNov 19, 20151 votes

Pshh... I try to be eloquent and mannered if I can because people tend to listen more... but don't worry, really I am an asshole. ;) I do find that minion autos are some of the most annoying and hardest to anticipate though... Shrug... As much as it sucks to get your shield popped by minions if you don't have a plan for keeping it up... :/ I almost always put a second point into my Shield at lvl4 before maxing Q anyways...

Dominick DestineNov 7, 20152 votes

He was in a good spot before the multiple nerfs to his kit.

Now he is woefully underpowered and, I would say needs a lot more than reducing the activation time on his W to be viable in a world with Riven/Yasuo/Darius top.

SpoofghoulNov 8, 20152 votes

Our friend Sion is undead and tormented must he punished even more by all the harsh nerfs to his kit and favorite items over the last year? No i think not, as of now he is in a bad spot but let us go fix that. Now on to the suggested buffs.

Now before i go on ranting about all the buffs/changes i really think Sion could use a quality of life buff on his auto attack range, as of now it is 150 and that for a big buy is not so much, compare this to Fizz who has a 175 range. I think Sion with his big axe should also get 175 range on his auto attacks so the range would fit his size, now he has to really creep up on his enemies, its a bit awkward.

Now for some creative buffs. 1 A 3th passive.

Yes, really, but this one is on his ultimate. Starting at rank 1 Sion gets 10 increased base armor once he drops below 25% health. At rank 2 Sion gets 10 increased base armor as he drops below 50 % hp and 20 increased base armor as he drops below 25% hp At rank 3 Sion gets 10 increased base armor if he drops below 75% hp increasing to 20 if he drops below 50% hp and further increasing to 30 increased base armor once his health goes below 25%. This would put Sion on 74/84/94/104 base armor depending on how low his health is and how many points he has in his ultimate.

As you can see with this buff Sion will become more tanky the lower his health is, scaling with ranks in his ultimate. This buff would help compensate Sion for his weak base stats at lvl 18. Overal he will have average defensive stats, at level 16, for a tank with this buff. 2 Alteration to Sion's W Soulfurnace.

Sion uses his passive on Soulfurnace to gain health, this is in part to compensate for his weak base health, 1783 at level 18. But he can obtain alot if you farm really well with him. However alot of champions have %hp damage and then there are 2 items to counter health stacking, 3 with the new dominik's regard. Sion notorious for trieying to obtain as much health as he can by feeding souls into his furnace Is heavily punished for doing so by all this %hp damage going around.

Now what if all the health Sion farmed with his W passive becomes red health. This red health is Sions last used part of his healthpool. It has some unique properties;

Red health is immune to %hp damage
Red health enjoys a 200% bonus from all sources of healing.

Rather than having Sion punished for whenever he is not able to farm well, for example due to focus from a jungler, or losing his lane he gets rewarded for doing well. As Sion really needs to farm up quite a bit of health to get equal with other tanks. Most of which have alot more base health growth. Alot of these tanks also have better in combat sustain or have defense steroids like %damage reduction, for example maokai or gragas. Unlike These champions Sion has very little reliable ways of getting back into the game once he, or his team fall behind. Therefore Making the stacked health have some unique but powerfull proterties gives a bit more reward for the risk of picking him.

These are my best ideas for some creative buffs, The healthstacking passive already has alot of counterplay because of Sions weak and manahungry earlygame. He needs at least a decent amount to stay on par. Sion also has weak base stats so the scaling stat buff on ult should help him scale better into lategame without giving him much power early on. Both changes are aimed at making Sion more tanky lategame but keep his weak early game. If both changes are implemented Sion would still rely on farming health to stay on par, statwise, with other tanks. But would reward the player if he/she manages to farm a substantial amount of health.

Im happy to receive feedback, but please be constructive.

Odyssey85Nov 8, 20152 votes

{quoted} Yes, really, but this one is on his ultimate. Starting at rank 1 Sion gets 10 increased base armor once he drops below 25% health. At rank 2 Sion gets 10 increased base armor as he drops below 50 % hp and 20 increased base armor as he drops below 25% hp At rank 3 Sion gets 10 increased base armor if he drops below 75% hp increasing to 20 if he drops below 50% hp and further increasing to 30 increased base armor once his health goes below 25%. This would put Sion on 74/84/94/104 base armor depending on how low his health is and how many points he has in his ultimate. Sion uses his passive on Soulfurnace to gain health, this is in part to compensate for his weak base health, 1783 at level 18. But he can obtain alot if you farm really well with him. However alot of champions have %hp damage and then there are 2 items to counter health stacking, 3 with the new dominik's regard. Sion notorious for trieying to obtain as much health as he can by feeding souls into his furnace Is heavily punished for doing so by all this %hp damage going around. Now what if all the health Sion farmed with his W passive becomes red health. This red health is Sions last used part of his healthpool. It has some unique properties;

Red health is immune to %hp damage

Red health enjoys a 200% bonus from all sources of healing.

Yeah, for the first juggernaut (get it, since his title is the Undead Juggernaut, get it) he hasn't gotten much love, which I don't think is very fair. I played him top lane and I had a pretty good time, but the shield is pretty awful now, only really used it for farming to build health. Personally, I think these passive buffs are pretty interesting and unique to still make him viable. The increased armor at low health will be especially helpful in trades, and it sounds balanced IMO with all this true damage running amuck. And the red health concept, it sounds amazing and adds to his identity as an unstoppable force. These ideas sound great, but with how season 6 is primarily focused on the ADC overlords, anyone upsetting that would be a no-go. Though I totally like these concept ideas and it's a shame no one from Riot will pay attention to them item 3073 Sion

CrushforceXNov 10, 20151 votes

What would make Soul Furnace a fair ability is:

If it is burst, opponent who bursts it (and ONLY the opponent who bursts it) will take X% of soul furnace damage,
Soul furnace is X% (same x as before) red health and 3. the more resistances you stack, the higher X becomes, armor/mr ratio is 25/25% I think this would make soul furnace not feel clunky anymore, and that you would have to play around soul furnace if you are stacking AP, as it should be Just adding some more suggestions

ComannderShepardNov 7, 20151 votes

In the jungle I agree but I feel he is still pretty strong top lane.

CrushforceXNov 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://pre10.deviantart.net/2f87/th/pre/f/2014/269/5/1/sion_s_forgotten_by_monsterkingofkarmen-d80nsfo.jpg

The numerous nerfs and the nerf to Cinderhulk has left him terribly gimped. I'm okay with his E's current state, but the Soul Furnace nerf has to be reverted. I can never re-activate it before it gets broken.

Sion is not nerfed, they simply changed him to a more utility oriented jungler, not the damage that you know. He can't lane anymore, but in the jungle he is very much alive ;)

kaltenashesNov 7, 20151 votes

i just went supp with him, the enemy adc couldnt dodge my e and it lead us to secure kill several times (but the other lanes and jungler didnt do so well and we lost)

CrushforceXNov 10, 20152 votes

So veigar support sounds like a good idea to you then

kaltenashesNov 10, 20151 votes

i dont own veigar and i only played with him in One For All, but i think that veigar is sorta like brand, depending on the match, they can poke really well and both have cc that can or kill the enemy or leave him low health.... but they'll sacrifice most of THEIR* damage

CrushforceXNov 11, 20152 votes

veigar gets poked hard in all match-ups, it's his ability to out-scale all AP mids that makes him so powerful. Which he cant do while supp, so

Baron of BreadNov 8, 20155 votes

It was a nerf. They gave him no buffs in other areas that I can remember. Does he work as a utility jungler? Yes, he is even pretty good in my opinion. But that doesn't mean he wasn't nerfed.

DeadJokrNov 8, 20152 votes

i can still lane with Sion

CrushforceXNov 10, 20151 votes

Just like yasuo adc, it works, but not the best option for sion

Dar RaksadaNov 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Sion is not nerfed, they simply changed him to a more utility oriented jungler, not the damage that you know. He can't lane anymore, but in the jungle he is very much alive ;)

I've always jungled him as a fulltank/utility jungler. However, he was nerfed. What else would you call

Shield's health ratio reduced to (+ 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10% of max. health) from (+ 10% of max. health) at all ranks.
Secondary cast cooldown increased to 3 seconds from 2. 



Damage to monsters reduced to 80% from 90%.

The number nerfs aren't my main issue though, it's the cast cooldown increased to 3 seconds, this makes him feel clunky, especially early on in the jungle as you need to time your cast right after the jungle mobs attack or they'll break it (most notable with the second time you use it on blue)

Aside from that I feel that the nerfs to him and his items have reduced his power level (Orly?) but it might just be the meta not favouring him.

PrimaquariusNov 8, 20151 votes

Or maybe cast SF before you begin a camp

CrushforceXNov 10, 20151 votes

I always did that ;)

Dar RaksadaNov 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Or maybe cast SF before you begin a camp

I always do that, but it still comes up a second time on my first blue clear, and iirc sometimes on other camps (first clear/drake/baron only).

It just feel clunky though.

Photos of GhostsNov 8, 20154 votes

It now takes a longer time to reactivate the shield, which means that the enemy has more time to pop it and leave you without that damage.

That's a nerf. NOTHING ELSE.

Only Play DariusNov 7, 20151 votes

Worst part about the nerfs is that he didn't synergize with Cinderhulk as well as people thought. Yes it was good on him but the extra %HP didn't stack with the passive on his soul furnace. The shield nerfs just crippled his jungling and his laning. Either nerf the reactivation speed or nerf the scaling, but why they chose to nerf both at the same time is beyond me.

Honestly I can't help but suspect some favoritism, seeing as half of Leblanc 's speed nerfs got reverted 2 patches later after determining they were "overkill".

kaltenashesNov 7, 20151 votes

or make it so that when it breaks it explodes, its the worst shield in lol

Captainn GinyuNov 7, 20151 votes

iv played sion both jungle and top and i have to say i enjoy him as is though hi shield needs some work i feel like i can never use it in time uless i activate it before i go in

Blade of JusticNov 7, 20151 votes

Oh look! Post-Rework Sion is slow and unfun to play as! Who would have thunk it!.

Even before the nerfs, he couldn't do much besides CC. And even with the CC, we have people like Leona and Nautilus who are great at doing that. So all you're paying for is his Ult and health gain.

GG Sion. Guess Riot couldn't let you be a Melee AD champ or a Caster AP champ, so they made you a CC AD Tank.

Kitsuki05Nov 8, 20151 votes

I have no problems executing Sion properly; yes the shield is weak at early levels but he already seem to have an advantage in health and damage early game. I play him as a mid laner, maybe try it sometimes yourself.

WeirWulfNov 8, 20151 votes

My thoughts are;

In the jungle it's fine, and mid/late game it's fine, but I agree there alot of things you have to manage with it in lane; you have to weave it with your other skills, aswell kite/track the enemy's damage, all the while keeping yourself in close enough range so that you can proc the damage, plus it will eat through your mana if you use it too much. But personally I feel it is suitably rewarding when used successfully. You can both negate the enemy's damage, and then do % health damage. As a player whose majority of games are on Sion, I find it a fun part of his mastery.

MidEvilKnight3kNov 8, 20151 votes

I did not have fast enough internet to play league when updated Sion was released so I have only played him with the 3 second shield reactivation. I do not know how easy it was to use, but I feel the delay is usable as is. I will agree that he was hurt with frozen heart nerf and the second cinder hulk rebalance (which is a nerf by the time you have 2 items).

I know they were trying to target sons jungle power with the world nerf, but I believe it hurt his lane more. I can clear the jungle easily as it is. If they want to nerf his jungle, they could nerf the health he gets from large monsters so he doesn't get health from his passive faster in the jungle.

SlashStrikerNov 8, 20151 votes

Decimating Smash - Sion channels for up to 2 seconds 2 seconds.... For a melee champion. Thats his only problem and i think maximum charge time should be 1.2 second because its way to easy to evade

Rupture - Cho Gath causes the target area to rupture after a 0.625-second delay, knocking up enemies hit for 1 second

man that Cho Gath is so overpowered that if he is not behind he would be pretty damn hard to kill and he would most probably kill you instead. When sion is not behind he is still kinda easy to deal with. Riot probably gives players time to adapt to sion but i think this item is over its time for sion to get some buff in gameplay perspective

this is sion in his current state https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ichv2HfuF-c

SpoofghoulNov 9, 20151 votes

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