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Going out of your lane... Is it the right call?

Zero Shingetsu··11 votes·944 views

Is it always a bad thing during laning? I know mid does it a lot and no one cares, but I'm sure that comes from it happening at the pro level or something. There seems to be a consensus that whatever happens there is supposed to happen, and whatever happens in normal play isn't, so if I had to guess...

Anyway, a scenario from my last game: I'm playing Taric with Teleport and Exhaust. Don't ask why, it's a long explanation that makes me seem like more of a hardcore gamer than I really am. The point is that I was running Teleport, not Flash.

At about the 12 minute mark, our jungler got caught around dragon and we went to back him up. As I went to go back to bot after the skirmish, I noticed a teleport going in from the other side right near our low Ekko. So being nearby, I ran to assist. Things happened, Ekko survived and had to back. I checked bot. Not a soul present, so I figured I'd hold mid for Ekko until he got back.

Six seconds later, a fight breaks out 2v2 top, and Kat goes to engage. I ping my team away but they're ignoring it, so I follow to back them up. Eventually one fight ends but rolls right into another, and then that fight rolls into another. Now I'm up there with Shen trying to keep Yasuo and Katarina off of him long enough for me to go back to bot and him to go back period, because he's quite low at this point.

"taric", Shen says between dodges. What does he want? Impossible to tell from that, so I start looking for pings. Maybe he wants me to go on one of the two opponents tightening the noose on him. At this point Shen decides to take the time to stop under tower and nearly get caught by Yasuo's Q to say "retard taric", and later "go bot".

Aha. So he's... pissed that I'm trying to help him survive what would otherwise be a 2v1, and that every time I've ducked into the bush to leave, either he's nearly been killed or I've been followed and chased out. He continues every chance he gets. "taric. noob to bot"

Now Ekko chimes in, slinging mud at me and asking why I'm not bot. Of course I can't explain at this point because we're skirmishing constantly. But rest assured, the second Kat goes back to her own lane, I get into the bush, teleport bot, and keep Lucian from dying to a Cait Q. All is well.

That's a long setup, but all that to say, the situation made me wonder. Was I really in the wrong? Is it ever okay for a support to leave their lane? Effective teamplay in any game is about strategy, and the man who literally wrote the book on strategy is Sun Tzu. He states that no plan is absolute, and that the ability to adapt to any situation, often in orthodox ways, is the key to gaining victory. But what do you think? Maybe I'm a League illiterate.

I could have run away and left Shen to die. He probably would've cursed me for it, too. And for good reason if you ask me. Their Mastery 7 Yasuo was already 2/0 with an edge on CS, and he'd have another kill or assist with the better part of a minute to free farm. We won the game, by the way, and I wound up with a 6:1 assist-to-death ratio. So I don't think that one play hurt my capacity to support all that much in the long run.

31 Comments

Niyumi5 votes

You were in the right. A good support doesn't just stay bot all game. If the rest of the map has issues, or you can get another lane snowballing with a drive by support gank, then do it. Lucian is really good at playing safely in lane, so he can survive without a support constantly tied to him. Just gotta judge the situation, your team, and see what would help the most.

The support is not just for the ADC. The support helps the entire team. ^^

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

{quoted}

You were in the right. A good support doesn't just stay bot all game. If the rest of the map has issues, or you can get another lane snowballing with a drive by support gank, then do it. Lucian is really good at playing safely in lane, so he can survive without a support constantly tied to him. Just gotta judge the situation, your team, and see what would help the most.

The support is not just for the ADC. The support helps the entire team. ^^

Good, this is what I've always thought too. :) It's one reason I run Teleport. If this weren't the case, I'd bring Heal and Exhaust.

Amasa Delano1 votes

I've also run into players who don't understand that support helps the entire team, not just bot lane. Don't take it personally at all.

ShinkoMinori2 votes

{quoted}

Anyway, a scenario from my last game: I'm playing Taric with Teleport and Exhaust.

I read enough.

Zero Shingetsu5 votes

{quoted}

I read enough.

You sure? Because I suppose I can expound upon the why.

As a Japanese gamer, I've gotten used to avoiding what my senpai calls "foreigner's crutches". There are a lot of features in foreign games that Japanese gamers find to be too easy, and won't use because they think it will make them worse players in the long run. Flash is one of those, because you start to feel like you can make stupid decisions as long as you have a flash to get you out of trouble. Or like you don't have to fight too hard when you engage because you can always Flash-Ignite. (Ignite is another by the way.)

So I have a choice. As a support, I basically have two valid options for replacing it: Teleport or Heal. Since Heal's effect is reduced each time it's used within a short span, I've found Teleport is more useful, as it allows me to do things like this: Help out lanes that are struggling, then quickly port back to bot. Nevermind that I can take the 2-for-1 trades if my teleport is up and not miss out on too much gold.

Votable Jester1 votes

Couldn't you argue that TP is a crutch for when you make a macro misplay the same as Flash is a crutch for micro misplays?

Sure TP can be used proactively, but so can flash.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wFU2YMf,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:36:04.044+0000)

Couldn't you argue that TP is a crutch for when you make a macro misplay the same as Flash is a crutch for micro misplays?

Sure TP can be used proactively, but so can flash.

Actually I suppose that's a good point. Maybe I should start using Heal... I would just never use summoners if it were up to me, but when I support, I can't get away with that. It hurts my ADC if I do that. :P

underscores2221 votes

Have you considered ghost?

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Have you considered ghost?

I haven't really. Come to think of it, that might be a good way to go, since it gets me out of trouble when I go in to draw fire off my ADC, and it also helps me close the distance when the ADC gets in trouble.

ShinkoMinori1 votes

Why are you playing in NA instead of the Japanese servers?

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

Why are you playing in NA instead of the Japanese servers?

I got used to it back before there was a JP server, and I stayed because there aren't a lot of people on JP. People would think I should play another Asian server but... Koreans tend to take the game way too seriously and are way better than me, while Chinese people literally hate mine as a rule lol. I'm lucky enough to be fluent in English!

Friendly Ram2 votes

Kk what you did was good. Where was your ekko while his laner was top?

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Honker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wFU2YMf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-07-12T20:23:49.301+0000)

Kk what you did was good. Where was your ekko while his laner was top?

Running back into lane. I don't hold that against him as he had to back, but that's why I stayed mid in the first place lol.

Friendly Ram4 votes

Yeah staying with shen was good. Lucian can easily evaporate waves and ekko can force tower while you help handle his laner.

Leon Etoile2 votes

Pro supports roam all the time. Just like roaming from another lane or ganking you have to know how to do it properly.

You don't seem to understand that taking TP exh makes your lane weaker as support. Also, you don't get that once you leave your lane the way you are doing, you are giving up a third of the map. Even if you are winning your lane; all that pressure is lost.

If you want to help your team (you are focusing on this too much); the best thing to do is dominate your opposing matchup then extending your lead to help your team that way.

Here's where you should start until you get better at understanding the game. Force the enemy to back early through trades, crash your wave into turret and back. This simple practice will get you up in xp and gold over your opponents.

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leon Etoile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4wFU2YMf,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-07-13T00:06:03.978+0000)

Pro supports roam all the time. Just like roaming from another lane or ganking you have to know how to do it properly.

You don't seem to understand that taking TP exh makes your lane weaker as support. Also, you don't get that once you leave your lane the way you are doing, you are giving up a third of the map. Even if you are winning your lane; all that pressure is lost.

I don't really get it, no. I mean you've told me, but you didn't expound as to why. Generally supports take Flash instead of TP (because everyone uses Flash on NA...) and I'm not sure how that makes my lane stronger, unless I'm playing someone like Rammus where I can flash to get a taunt that secures a kill. If it's a matter of helping me not die, I'd honestly rather keep my mind trained to not overextend, rather than subconsciously getting myself thinking it's okay to do so because I can just Flash out.

And I understand the lack of pressure for sure. Trust me, I don't just decide on a whim "oh, our lane is pushed, let's TP top and see what I can do" lol. I take teleport specifically to allow me to roam mid if bot is strong and mid is struggling, and then TP back as soon as the momentum starts to shift. (At least as far as laning phase goes.) In this case, ending up top was purely a matter of shifting circumstances and adaptation, and no one was in bot until the last minute or so of my roaming period. We never really lost ground; in fact, I'm pretty sure our bot never lost a tower all game.

If you want to help your team (you are focusing on this too much); the best thing to do is dominate your opposing matchup then extending your lead to help your team that way.

Here's where you should start until you get better at understanding the game. Force the enemy to back early through trades, crash your wave into turret and back. This simple practice will get you up in xp and gold over your opponents.

I'm all too familiar with the practice already. :) I main Support Nasus, so forcing the enemy back is more or less second nature to me at this point. At this point in the game I reference, my Lucian was something like 4/1 with about a 30 CS advantage. Lucian is pretty good and keeping waves clear, so that was never a fear.

Shadowatom1 votes

{quoted}

(because everyone in the world uses Flash on NA...)

ftfy

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

{quoted}

ftfy

Lol. Well I've never played EU or OCE so I wasn't sure about those, and I know you see it a lot less in Japan than you do on NA.

Verdade1 votes

Im often running flash/tp on my VK when playing support as other summoners have very limited range and his R is just too powerful. If i am able to hit 6 before my enemies, it is worth it, as whole combo from VK supp can kill both ADC, his support and even melt through heal.

Leon Etoile1 votes

You don't understand map pressure. Even if you and your adc are pushed into enemy turret; you tping out leaves your adc in a 2v1 until you get back. Your lane then becomes pushed into your turret.

Also, you seem to view flash as a defensive tool only. Using your Taric play as example, you can flash when your e is about to trigger to secure a double stun that enemy didn't think would lane so didn't dodge it all. That can be a double kill winning your lane off one play. You are B5 and if you played like that at higher levels; your team would be destroyed and you'd be flamed.

Devouring2 votes

It doesn't matter what lane I'm currently in, be it a main role or even support.

If the chance to help another lane arrives, and it doesn't hinder your own laning abilities, I don't see the harm in trying to help. It is, after all, a team game. Capitalizing off each other is something that is relatively needed to win, push, or even get a head by the slightest. As a mid/support main, I tend to roam a lot with pinging my team or explaining. It helps a lot and can potentially put you and your team mates ahead.

Some people don't like it, however. I've supported some ADCs that hate when their support leave lane, even if we were ahead. It's just something you need to figure out with and around your team. It's a good strategy but you need to keep your team in the loop.

TequilaZombie1 votes

First: I wanna know the reason for Ex+TP. Sounds interesting.

Second: Always explain what you're doing to your team. A simple "I'm making sure they aren't able to tower dive you so you can recall" is enough.

I'm (was, now I main mid) a jungler and found out that you have to treat your team as a bunch of toddlers if you want any manner of teamwork to be shown. "Hey, I'm going to invade Udyr's jungle. Can you back me up if things go wrong, Ahri?" And only go if they give you a clear answer. I'm not sure of your rank, but playing through many different accounts I've found out that up until gold people are just as stupid as in bronze. Hell, even some plats manage to be complete idiots when it comes to map awareness and team plays.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

{quoted}

First: I wanna know the reason for Ex+TP. Sounds interesting.

Pasted from my reply to another comment:

As a Japanese gamer, I've gotten used to avoiding what my senpai calls "foreigner's crutches". There are a lot of features in foreign games that Japanese gamers find to be too easy, and won't use because they think it will make them worse players in the long run. Flash is one of those, because you start to feel like you can make stupid decisions as long as you have a flash to get you out of trouble. Or like you don't have to fight too hard when you engage because you can always Flash-Ignite. (Ignite is another by the way.)

So I have a choice. As a support, I basically have two valid options for replacing it: Teleport or Heal. Since Heal's effect is reduced each time it's used within a short span, I've found Teleport is more useful, as it allows me to do things like this: Help out lanes that are struggling, then quickly port back to bot. Nevermind that I can take the 2-for-1 trades if my teleport is up and not miss out on too much gold.

Second: Always explain what you're doing to your team. A simple "I'm making sure they aren't able to tower dive you so you can recall" is enough.

Oh absolutely. When I finally got a chance to breathe and get back bot, I explained, but they didn't seem to accept it. Oh well. To be fair, it was a while before I could explain.

Kudrov1 votes

stupid

Zero Shingetsu12 votes

{quoted}

stupid

That moment when a comment perfectly describes itself. It's beautiful...

Seenan2 votes

{quoted}

Pasted from my reply to another comment:

As a Japanese gamer, I've gotten used to avoiding what my senpai calls "foreigner's crutches". There are a lot of features in foreign games that Japanese gamers find to be too easy, and won't use because they think it will make them worse players in the long run. Flash is one of those, because you start to feel like you can make stupid decisions as long as you have a flash to get you out of trouble. Or like you don't have to fight too hard when you engage because you can always Flash-Ignite. (Ignite is another by the way.)

So I have a choice. As a support, I basically have two valid options for replacing it: Teleport or Heal. Since Heal's effect is reduced each time it's used within a short span, I've found Teleport is more useful, as it allows me to do things like this: Help out lanes that are struggling, then quickly port back to bot. Nevermind that I can take the 2-for-1 trades if my teleport is up and not miss out on too much gold.

Oh absolutely. When I finally got a chance to breathe and get back bot, I explained, but they didn't seem to accept it. Oh well. To be fair, it was a while before I could explain.

I used to permanently used Exh/Ignite, on every class, for the same reason in S4/3. The issue was that I slightly missed kills here and there cause I couldn't just dick myself closer. In short, I countered their Flash with mine. I still forget to use it from time to time cause I'm not often caught in a bad position. I'm not Japanese either, I just hated how Flash could let you be a fucking idiot all you wanted cause hey, a free blink.

ThePompf1 votes

Ill explain you why that happened.

You are in B5. Wich means that your Teammates are in B5. Wich means they are most likely retarded. You did nothing wrong there, that is actually EXACTLY what a good support does.

Your teammates just dont know it, wich is why they will be stuck down there. YOU however, have good chances of getting out.

Good luck my friend, keep going with what you do!

(i also just realised that you play with Teleport on every champ no matter the position, Try using flash sometimes. Works wonders.)

Zero Shingetsu1 votes

{quoted}

(i also just realised that you play with Teleport on every champ no matter the position, Try using flash sometimes. Works wonders.)

I'll consider it. :)

Habitz1 votes

A simpler story for me. It was jungle Evelyn on the enemy team. I've found a useful method for avoiding her ganks is to deep ward her Jung because she comes out of stealth to fight camps. I am the only one punished for this as I lose xp but my team is a bit safer knowing what area Evelyn is and is not in. I get fucking flamed because my adc thinks if support is not glued to adc support must be brain dead. We won the game but I refused to come help her bit because of her attitude. Focused on helping mid, top and warding.

GuardAbuse1 votes

I think it's also situational to what your and their bot lane is. You had lucian who is pretty safe. They didn't have a good way of catching him either. If you were leaving a Jinx alone into say a Leona Ashe then maybe it isn't a good idea to leave. But maybe your adc was gone? Then roaming is fine. It's honestly really hard to say. From what I know you did the right thing.

Umio1 votes

Leaving lane is fine as long as you are not letting waves take your towers - or having your adc in a 2v1 for a potential of a 3v1 tower dive. If you can, keep your TP to get BACK to your lane

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