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Stop Overbuffing and Overnerfing

Jon 678910··28 votes·12,462 views

At this point, I don't even know what to say that hasn't already been said.

A very large portion of champions that have been buffed this season have just been nerfed right after, and vice versa. Regarding overbuffing, you've got many of the new/reworked champions, like Swain, Kai'sa and Zoe. Regarding the latter you have a lot of the meta picks at the time, like rammus, leona, shyvana and twitch.

What frustrates me is the fact that the smaller changes in the game have made a significant enough difference to a champion's performance. Just trimming Warwick's base AD and his Q ratio lowered his win rate, and though he's still on the stronger end of junglers, he's less of an issue. When Volibear was changed and was powerful, he received a small nerf to his knockback duration. Skarner was strong for a while, and they reduced his stun duration slightly. On the other hand, a slight buff to Graves (health per level and ult CD) was enough to convince people to play him again, and he's performing quite well again.

It's not limited to champions either. Press the Attack got nerfed and then buffed right after. Aftershock got changed to cater to fighters, who don't even run it now. After 8.11, I'm guessing Lethal Tempo's gonna be popular. The problem is that it already received a sizeable buff, and after ADCs powerspikes are shifted to later in the game and Fleet Footwork gets nerfed, it's probably going to be a lot more devastating.

Ideally, I'd like for nerfs and buffs to be more gradual. Too many champions are left in the dust for too long, rather than getting small buffs to keep them going until bigger kit changes take place. That being said, I'm not holding out hope that anything's going to change, if the last mundo buff (and upcoming nerf) is anything to go on.

31 Comments

FrostQueensPlane14 votes

[deleted]

saltran1 votes

{quoted}

meddler the janna player - nah

I saw his OPGG and plays only adcs and Brand supp on rankeds, and has 0 Janna games on his recent historial or in rankeds this season.

But you don't care, don't you?

DuskDaUmbreon11 votes

The problem is that people on the boards scream in rage too much if changes are gradual.

And a lot of champions left in the dust were left intentionally in the dust. Kalista, Azir, Mordekaiser, Aatrox. Nobody likes fighting these champions. Nobody wants these champions to be good except people that main them, because when they're good, they're busted.

Jon 6789107 votes

The problem is that people on the boards scream in rage too much if changes are gradual.

I honestly believe that people aren't angry about changes being gradual, they're angry about there being no changes. A lot of champs are kept strong for patches on end (like Janna), and then when they end up getting nerfs they are minor ones. If Janna, and champions like her, had been nerfed earlier, even slightly, people would have less of an issue with her. I still think that Janna, and enchanters in general, are stronger than they ought to be (which is visible from their high win and play rates), but very little has been done to stop this.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Enchanters are primarily super strong right now because they need to be because assassins are super strong. The meta improves their winrate because they counter the meta champions.

RumSaxon1 votes

they're busted cuz they dont take their time to fix the champions. youre honestly going to sit there and talk this nonsense. Riot is a multi billion dollar company but they cant find people to adjust at least ONE of those champions properly, but thy have enough resources to drop new champions faster than yeast can rise?

I take personal offence at "And a lot of champions left in the dust were left intentionally in the dust. Kalista, Azir, Mordekaiser, Aatrox. Nobody likes fighting these champions. Nobody wants these champions to be good except people that main them, because when they're good, they're busted." I know Aatrox was a lil OP back in the days but you dont just nerf him, leave him to rot, dig up his corpse, remove one of his legs then bury him again. if youre not going to do a full rework then just leave the champion be and adjust the stats to keep up with the game till youre ready for him otherwise youre just wasting your money and the developers time when they could have been doing something meaningful.

Who Fed Ru8 votes

naaaah Volibear as if Riot would ever overbuff a champion Ornn even if everybody already knew that they would end up being busted DrMundo when the changes hit PBE.

(Mundo meanwhile hit 54.5% wr, btw)

#balanced

TempName548463 votes

this dude implying voli was overbuffed omegalul

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

Any buff to Voli that isn't part of a rework is an overbuff.

Voli is one of 20-30 champions that should not be viable until they're fixed. Other examples include champions like Fiddlesticks, Wukong, Aatrox, and Kalista. They are champions that are just too fucking obnoxious and terrible to ever fight.

So, yes. Volibear was overbuffed. Because any buff that even threatens to make him viable is an overbuff. Because he's a champion that should be left in the gutter until fixed.

TempName548464 votes

we have actually reached an era where people want champions to be cancer like yasuo, riven, zed, zoe ... huh didn't expect it so soon.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Yasuo and Zoe I can outplay.

Zed, Riven, and Voli are all in the same boat - glorified stat-checks. The first two just take more skill to play. But all 3 are just stat checks.

4eva4 votes

[deleted]

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

A stat-check simply means the fight against them is not skill versus skill, but stat versus stat.

Against a Zed or Riven with any amount of skill, your skill no longer matters at all. It becomes a simple question of "Do I have enough effective health versus them to survive their combo, or do I die?"

There is no ability to dodge them. There is no ability to outplay them. There is simply "I out-stat them, they fuck up, or they out-stat me".

When you fight against either of them, is it ever you win because you beat them in a contest of skill? Or is it just "I had enough health, armor, and shields, or I had Zhonya's, so I guess I won".

My Heartshaker4 votes

{quoted}

A stat-check simply means the fight against them is not skill versus skill, but stat versus stat.

Against a Zed or Riven with any amount of skill, your skill no longer matters at all. It becomes a simple question of "Do I have enough effective health versus them to survive their combo, or do I die?"

There is no ability to dodge them. There is no ability to outplay them. There is simply "I out-stat them, they fuck up, or they out-stat me".

When you fight against either of them, is it ever you win because you beat them in a contest of skill? Or is it just "I had enough health, armor, and shields, or I had Zhonya's, so I guess I won".

You're right in the sense that that's what stat-check is. Riven and Zed aren't stat-check champions however, there is the ability to outplay both of them and it isn't difficult to.

If you're thinking of stat-check champions, think along the lines of Mundo, and Garen who just run straight at you. THEN it's stat vs stat.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Riven and Zed both do this its just that they ALSO have the oportunity to out play you. You cant out play them because they have more mobility than you. (everyone in the game except yasou and kassadin but difference is kassadin has a hefty cost for that)

LordGeovanni1 votes

Riven and zed are both. Riven because she damage amps during ult and all of her skills have 3x the scaling of any other normal melee ad champion. Zed because his ult has a damage amp.

TempName548462 votes

i mean i can see you "outplaying" zoe by dodging her bubble but you can do the same with zeds shurikens, don't see any "outplaying" against yasuo though.

LordGeovanni3 votes

You can do the same with zed's shurikens except that zed ults on top of you. or throws his shadow on top of you q's and then takes it. Its fair versus ranged champions Not versus melee's

TempName548461 votes

eh honestly id say its easier to dodge a zed q than a zoe e but maybe that's just me.

LordGeovanni1 votes

one of those has a cast animation and a slower travel speed and its not zed's q

TempName548461 votes

zoe e actually has a higher travel speed and bigger aoe, does have a slightly higher cast time though.

LetYourSleepWane3 votes

WW was nerfed wrongly. They just needed to reduce W MS to please bad SQ players and instead they went for Q and base AD?!? WW 1.5% ban rate in KR but NA whining was too high. Not even in a single competitive game this season.

Häxel2 votes

And on the ther side people make fun of riot if they do changes like 5dmg or 0.5s cd [zombie-brand-clap]

RumSaxon1 votes

They do what they want regardless of what the community says so why not just do the right things and ignore us anyways? I kind of have to give them credit for what i see in the upcoming patch, concerning the ADCs at least. They've been way to OP since the start of S6 and the game has taken a huge hit when it comes to being enjoyable, unless you play ADC and you're good at it.

Ayzev1 votes

Because people want neither overbuffing/overnerfing, nor underbuffing/undernerfing. There is a middle ground, and a lot of the time it isn't hard to hit it, but Riot manage to miss it regardless.

Häxel1 votes

no people complain about every middleground riot does cause in the end if a buff/nerf is to hard, to weak or right is subjective to every person. Or they keep crying if their champion gets touched a few patches in a row or just remaisns trong cause meta or itembuild changes riot obviusly can not predict 100% all time.

Colton1471 votes

DrMundo wasn't over-buffed. He is still a troll pick and auto-loss.

PB4UAME1 votes

Laughs in top 3 top lane winrates at almost 55%.

Jaygo411 votes

TFW -4 armor and buffs to literally every other jungler in the game made JarvanIV troll

xXzeldastepXx1 votes

Garen is just broken

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