Adaptive helm

Sèx Craved Eve·May 17, 2017·35 votes·4,383 views

Very niche. Blocks damage from Liandries, dots, and rapid fire abilities. Yet, it has very low HP, and not an astounding amount of MR like old Banshee's veil(to compensate for the lower hp).

Why does it cost so damn much to combine it? 1100 gold. For an item that is only okay against certain champions, or certain builds.

Edit: I EDIT MY POSTS A LOT. Mostly because I think of something else that pisses me off. Guess what! I'm pissed. Such a generalistic(IS THIS A WORD?) item, offering damage, damage reduction, and a fucking revive passive, is cheaper than A FUCKING NICHE ITEM. GODDAMNIT

57 Comments

RainfallMay 17, 201712 votes

adaptive helm is complete and utter garbage,it is mathematicaly impossible to get worth out of this crap.

DeusVultMay 18, 20174 votes

The only reason to buy it is if you went Galio mid against brand or Cass...

Sagan ForeverMay 18, 20176 votes

After you got a/the real mr item item 3065 .

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 201712 votes

If old Galio were still around then you can bet your ass he'd have loved the item.

LuxannaVeritasMay 18, 20171 votes

Don't forget Fizz and his bleed on his W passive.

Only Play DariusMay 17, 20176 votes

Adaptive helm is terrible unless you're playing against Cass or Teemo (maybe Syndra for ult), otherwise it's too easy to cycle abilites and render the passive nonexistant. The item looks good on paper but doesn't work.

Sir FuzziMay 17, 201714 votes

See this was my big question, if I trip Teemo's shroom because I'm an idiot and then he lays into me with autos, which poison am I reducing?

Am I reducing poison? Are the layered ticks constantly resetting which one the helm is canceling?

He has Liandry's, too. Is it going to cancel that one because its duration keeps refreshing?

Cassio Grounds me and starts up the poison train. Am I reducing the ground effect, or her... Q is it?

Is it the highest damage instance?

I was super hyped for the item, and then it came out and I've literally not bought it even once because I'm just never sure. I mean at least with Spirit Visage it's like, yeah, if you buy HP5 then you're getting payout on your Visage. Not a lot, but you know, it's doing its job as sure as it can. But with Adaptive Helm, I'm never sure if it's going to do what I want it to... it's one of those things that sounds great until you try to apply it in practice.

I do not want to bring that if the only damage it's reducing is Shyvana's stupid fire ring because it's constantly refreshing.

5000000000000000May 18, 20175 votes

All DoT's pretty sure. You'll take full damage on first tick, and reduced damage on later ticks. Or at least, it's supposed to be. I tried to test in practice mode, but there's no Teemo and it's hard to check how much damage I'm taking.

AbyssphereMay 18, 20172 votes

Posts like these are why I'm against the item being buffed. It's not unpopular because it's weak, it's unpopular because the community has no idea what it does.

There is no weird refreshing mechanic that cancels previous mitigation. The item is capable of mitigating several instances of damage at once. It would simultaneously reduce the damage of both of Teemo's poisons, Liandry's, DFT, Shyvana circle and more in the scenario you are presenting.

I don't understand why everyone is so quick to assume that things work in the most unintuitive and random ways possible. Chances are Riot makes effects that are at least somewhat logical and you know, useful.

Tim From WorkMay 18, 20171 votes

I think the problem there mostly lies in spaghetti coding, like sure you'd think that's how something works and the tooltip might even say that's how it works but there have been many instances where that isn't true, such as when graves e tooltip used to say that the e passive only refreshed on autos but it refreshed on all damage now it's since been changed to work that way

Sir FuzziMay 18, 20171 votes

I'm not about to test it in game and I'm not aware of a function (besides wrangling like three people into a custom) that would allow me to test the features so deliberately.

I'm not saying it needs to be buffed, I'm saying it needs to display its function clearly.

It's also not terribly unituitive. You probably shouldn't be drinking up both of Cass' poisons and frankly, if my dumb ass is walking in to mushrooms, I'm probably gonna go away from Teemo. If it reduced damage from one instance, there are plenty of instances where only one is affecting you.

And Riot is comprised of humans who make mistakes or put an idea that sounds great on paper, and works badly in practice. It's happened consistently.

Thank you, however. "The item is capable of mitigating several instances of damage at once" is an answer I've been hunting for weeks.

So, thank you.

AlienPrimateMay 18, 20173 votes

What about AurelionSol Azir Evelynn Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Katarina Kayle Kennen Malzahar Ryze Singed Swain Zyra

Sèx Craved EveMay 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What about

I'm not perfect, but I included a lot of those already. I'd consider taking Ryze off of that list, because he's not good... So, it doesn't really matter either way.

RevaliMay 19, 20171 votes

its actually very good against ryze since it reduces his combos by a good amount. its very good against people that are spammy, or as they said, dots.

AlbertoplusMay 18, 20176 votes

You guys here know that the passive stacks with every instance of magic damage you receive right?

Casting a second spell DOESN'T stop the 1st next spell reduction: it will reduce now both of them.

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 20171 votes

See this is what I thought when I read it but now that everyone else is saying that it only does this for the last spell that hit you I don't know.

AlbertoplusMay 18, 20171 votes

I would like to test it but i searched it and most people were saying it does.

LankPantsMay 18, 20171 votes

If it doesn't then it's complete garbage. If it does then it's bad. As it stands the passive is almost always worth less than 150 HP, 5 MR and what ever SV's passive does for you is realistically better unless their team's stacked with DoT mages.

Sir FuzziMay 18, 20171 votes

It would have to be a majority of sustained or DoT mages.

Basically, 3-4 of

What about (list expanded)

IMHO are amidst the most useful targets for it and you'd need a lot of them at once, probably. Spirit Visage might just be better since it'll share synergy with other items, too. Adaptive will only show an advantage over other buys if you're being stacked to the nines with dots.

LankPantsMay 18, 20175 votes

Adaptive Helm is bad, not niche. You can show this with simple math.

The difference in HP between Adaptive and SV is 150, assuming they're the same in other ways (and they're not, SV grants 5 extra MR) then Helm's passive has to block 150 damage to be even with SV. For this to be true you need to take 150/0.15=1000 damage that's reducible by Helm, that almost never happens.

It's a damn shame too, because I really want Helm to be good, it's just not though. It really needs a huge stat buff to be competitive, something like +50 HP and +10 MR would probably do it.

GorantharonMay 18, 20173 votes

Well, against Cassio or so that damage does happen, but if you consider that SV also increases your recieved healing you now need to take even more damage to come out even.

Troll for TrumpMay 17, 20172 votes

Niche items need to be more costly than general items. If they were cheap, you'd get them too early, and they'd fulfill whatever niche they had and basically make it impossible for the enemy champ who you bought the niche item against to do anything, unless they make another niche item to specifically counter that one.

Best example is executioner's calling. If it were any cheaper than it already was, healing champions would be boned everywhere. Even at 800 gold, many champs that rely on healing are basically useless, unless they have another niche besides healing.

If they had a niche besides healing, their heal wouldn't warrant you needing to buy item 3123

Sèx Craved EveMay 17, 20172 votes

Niche items need to be more costly than general items. If they were cheap, you'd get them too early, and they'd fulfill whatever niche they had and basically make it impossible for the enemy champ who you bought the niche item against to do anything, unless they make another niche item to specifically counter that one.

If this is the case, why bother creating the new item at all? All they've done is create two new MR items to compensate for the loss of another. Instead of creating a similar item to the old, they created two new items that are not cost efficient, nor give any meaningful stats until you have both.

Edit: Okay, this comment is a little unfair. Abyssal Sceptre is a lot more useful than adaptive helm. Only with certain champions or team compositions, though.

Troll for TrumpMay 18, 20173 votes

They want to introduce more flexible itemization, and part of that is with niche items.

Armor has the anti-crit Randuins, anti-machine gun Thornmails, and the more generic, roaming Dead man's, sunfire's (supposedly) waveclear. MR has the anti-AP DPS Abyssal, offensive Abyssal, and, more generic, Spirit Visage.

They don't like people spam building Visage because there's nothing better to build. But they don't want a bunch of general items, which will all end up competing with each other for efficiency.

That's essentially the case between sunfires and deadman's.

Why they tried so hard to make Adaptive Helm "especially niche" was probably so they wouldn't have a repeat of niche items being generic again.

I think, with the changes to visage, they're trying to make it more niche as well. But, because everyone and their mother has self-sustain, or healing from another source, it'd be very difficult to make it not the best general MR option

Sèx Craved EveMay 18, 20172 votes

They don't like people spam building Visage because there's nothing better to build. But they don't want a bunch of general items, which will all end up competing with each other for efficiency.

Yeah, that's the part that's making sense. It doesn't compensate for the loss of the previous Bashee's stats, but I get their reasoning.

I think, with the changes to visage, they're trying to make it more niche as well. But, because everyone and their mother has self-sustain, or healing from another source, it'd be very difficult to make it not the best general MR option

Sadly, it's the only item left for general magic resist that's not too expensive for it's effective niche. I'm starting to worry they'll keep nerfing MR until there's no way left to effectively defend yourself against magic damage without some form of built in self-shielding or damage reduction(WW, Galio). Considering Void staff still ignores a percentage of your total MR is also concerning.

Troll for TrumpMay 18, 20171 votes

Banshee's was basically the spirit visage of s3/s4, until they nerfed the gold efficiency.

While MR is costly and harder to stack, M pen is also generall worse.

Most mages just have M pen runes/masteries/sorc boots.

Most don't get voidstaff until the point where teamfights start, so you can hope for that.

Some mages will benefit off MR nerfs more than others.

Specifically, the teamfight-based ones.

Lookin at

SpecterVonBarenMay 18, 20172 votes

Abyssal Sceptre is a fantastic item though. It gives a lot of tanks a way to increase their damage and their allies damage without having to feel like they're being greedy buy getting an AP item since it's now a tank item.

General Esdeath May 17, 20172 votes

It's pretty much for countering Cassiopeia Singed Swain Teemo

junglerboy16May 18, 20172 votes

The problem is it doesn't.

Mathematically it is weaker than Spirit visage in every way, and only becomes comparable to SV's base stats (not including the passive) if you take enough raw magic damage after the initial hit of an ability for the 15% damage reduction to be worth as much as SV's extra 150 health and 5 MR.

Basically Riot really sucks at math and/or doesn't bother to check whether their new items will actually do anything outside PBE testing.

A good setup for adaptive helm would be something like adjusting it to 600 health and 30 MR, and boost the passive to 25% reduction on repeated spell procs. It is now clearly for defending against consistent magic DPS instead of general magic damage, and is strong enough within its niche that it could be worth buying. just swap out the extra NMM and rejuv bead for two ruby crystals in the build and you're golden.

General Esdeath May 18, 20171 votes

Reduces all their DoT damage by 15% my dude

junglerboy16May 18, 20172 votes

You do realize that's equal to only 17.5 MR, and only if it reduced all magic damage, not just sustained damage. since it only applies to secondary reapplications of damage, it's closer to only about 10 MR worth of damage reduction. It also does diddly squat against burst (which is fine since that's not its niche, but still weaker than flat MR and health)

Not to mention we are still busy comparing Adaptive helm's full effect vs only SV's base stats. Add in the enhanced healing of SV and there is literally nothing better or more effective about adaptive helm.

It's worse at surviving burst because you're squishier, it's worse at surviving DPS because SV's stat line is flat out stronger than the whole item and allows you to regen back over the course of a fight, and it is a trap item that is at best a followup to SV, at worst a wasted item slot. It's better to get two SVs (wasting the passive) than one SV and an adaptive helm. Maybe if the item were a lot cheaper it could be fine as a reactionary buy, but right now there's no reason to waste your gold on it.

General Esdeath May 18, 20171 votes

It's not meant for burst, hence why I said DoT damage. It's a niche item. Old Banshee's was meh unless the enemy had someone who relied on a certain skill, like Veigar

junglerboy16May 19, 20172 votes

I know it's niche, and I'm saying it fails at its niche.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, which is that I could excuse it not fitting its intended niche if it were at least useful, but it isn't

To put it in perspective, SV is 104% Gold efficient without its passive, while AH is barely 84%, meaning it's passive needs to be worth bare minimum 560 gold just to hold up to SV's raw stats.

They cost the exact same amount, but SV offers substantially more gold and slot efficiency. Like I said, you gain more from buying 2 SVs than wasting gold or a slot on an Adaptive helm.

Niche or not, Adaptive helm was DoA and will remain that way until either its stats or passive are buffed substantially.

AngrychickénMay 18, 20171 votes

I can answer one of your questions!

Ga is actually really gold inefficient without the revive passive.

It is so not worth when the passive is down.

junglerboy16May 18, 20172 votes

That used to be the case, but now that it offers strong defensive and offensive stats it has a strong enough general stat line to make up for that (i.e. it's good in so many situations right now that the gold inefficiency doesn't matter)

AngrychickénMay 18, 20171 votes

There are changes on the Pbe making it much weaker.

junglerboy16May 18, 20172 votes

That only makes it weaker in relatively high elo play where people don't die as frequently. In lower elo, that's probably a substantial buff half the time.

LordOfTheLeagueMay 18, 20171 votes

You compare zhonya and ga. You compare randuin and adaptive helm.

And today, this item is niche because the champions that are countered by it are rare or doesn’t exist yet aka magic dps champs.

Sèx Craved EveMay 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You compare zhonya and ga. You compare randuin and adaptive helm.

And today, this item is niche because the champions that are countered by it are rare or doesn’t exist yet aka magic dps champs.

Azir Cassiopeia Evelynn Fizz Fiddlesticks Galio Heimerdinger Katarina Kennen Malzahar Morgana Rammus Rumble Swain Syndra Taliyah Teemo Viktor Zyra item 3151

Rare or doesn't exist yet?

My biggest complaint is with lower HP overall, you're getting a lot less value over the purchase of a single defensive item. Sure, it's fine that you may be a lot better off against someone you buy an item against, but someone of the opposing damage type is going to be able to shred you. All defensive itemization got nerfed. There's not way to deny that. Yes, it is better overall that you can't just buy one defensive item early and be fine, but games do not always go perfectly where you're incredibly far ahead in gold, so you can't buy another defensive item to offset the current lacking power of the new itemization.

Also, adaptive helm is garbage.

LordOfTheLeagueMay 18, 20172 votes

Most of the champions you listed are not champions with sustained damage.

They are either burst mage or tanks and this item is not made to counter them.

You buy this item because of its passive and the last is best when you take massive damage from a frequent source of magic damage.

You don't buy this item vs a tank because his damage will be too low for the passive to be worth.

You don't buy this item vs a burster because the fight will most likely be over before they combo you twice especially as a tanky champ.

Even if adaptive would be decent vs all the champion you listed, it's not made to be good vs most of them.

Only cassio, azir, rumble, teemo and maybe taliah and swain

Sèx Craved EveMay 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Most of the champions you listed are not champions with sustained damage.

They are either burst mage or tanks and this item is not made to counter them.

You buy this item because of its passive and the last is best when you take massive damage from a frequent source of magic damage.

You don't buy this item vs a tank because his damage will be too low for the passive to be worth.

You don't buy this item vs a burster because the fight will most likely be over before they combo you twice especially as a tanky champ.

Even if adaptive would be decent vs all the champion you listed, it's not made to be good vs most of them.

Only cassio, azir, rumble, teemo and maybe taliah and swain

How is it not good against Malzahar? All of his abilities except for one is a multihit ability. Zyra? You don't think reducing damage from 3 plus plants counts as sustained damage reduction? Heimer's turrets not count as DPS? What about his MULTIHIT rockets? Taliyah's Q and E, and Swain's Q, E, and R do not count as maybes. How about the fact that it reduces ALL OF FIDDLESTICKS ABILITIES, except his fear? No? Just going to keep telling me I'm wrong, when I'm not?

I included a lot of champions in my list that have abilities that hit you more than once. Those abilities WILL BE REDUCED by this item. Whether you agree with what I say or not. It DOES happen.

Edit: I just noticed you're a Cassiopeia main. I understand that you don't want an item that hard counters your champion buffed, but please try to understand that in it's current iteration, this item is fucking garbage.

LordOfTheLeagueMay 18, 20171 votes

It's not because the mechanic is countered by the passive that it's worth to buy the item.

I was very clear when I said that the item is decent vs the champs you listed.

It's just that the amount of damage they deal over the course of the fight is dependent of theirs cd, when dps champ deals a lot more damage over time so the final damage and**_ thefore the damage reduced by the passive_** will be way higher making it worth it's gold.

My point is that it's about way more about numbers than mechanics.

Sèx Craved EveMay 18, 20171 votes

My point is that it's about way more about numbers than mechanics.

Well, stop fighting me. I know this items numbers are bad. That's the point of this post.

LordOfTheLeagueMay 18, 20171 votes

I am not saying it is the item numbers that are bad but the magic dps champion that missing on general.

Sèx Craved EveMay 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I am not saying it is the item numbers that are bad but the magic dps champion that missing on general.

Right, there are few TRUE DPS magic damage users. So few, makes you wonder why even make the item the way it is.

LordOfTheLeagueMay 19, 20171 votes

I understand your problem.

Personnally, I hope this will allow riot to design more of them so they will compete with marksmen in the bot lane for an increased variety there.

DragonSheaMay 19, 20171 votes

It should reduce all magic damage taken by 2-5% as well. at least then it will a bit more viable against poke, not just DoT.

EuthenaasiaMay 19, 20171 votes

I'd rather this item just be deleted as Riot keeps nerfing Spirit Visage to make this seem "more appealing".

figold666Jul 18, 20171 votes

Just buy spirit visage.

There is really no reason that you should buy this item over it.

Spirit visage had better raw stats
They have same cost
The passive on spirit visage is waaaay better:

Let's take Olaf: He is having trouble dealing with Cassiopeia and her damage, so he wants to buy an MR item.

If Olaf buys adaptive helm, he would take 150 less post mitigation damage from Cassiopeia for every 1000 damage that she deals theoretically.

If Olaf buys Spirit visage, Cassiopeia has to deal 100 more PRE mitigation damage to take care of it (Hp). In addition, the passive increases the effectiveness of Olaf's W by about 8%. This gives him about 100 more pre mitigation damage that Cassiopeia has to get through.

Sèx Craved EveJul 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Just buy spirit visage.

There is really no reason that you should buy this item over it.

Spirit visage had better raw stats

They have same cost

The passive on spirit visage is waaaay better:

Let's take Olaf: He is having trouble dealing with Cassiopeia and her damage, so he wants to buy an MR item.

If Olaf buys adaptive helm, he would take 150 less post mitigation damage from Cassiopeia for every 1000 damage that she deals theoretically.

If Olaf buys Spirit visage, Cassiopeia has to deal 100 more PRE mitigation damage to take care of it (Hp). In addition, the passive increases the effectiveness of Olaf's W by about 8%. This gives him about 100 more pre mitigation damage that Cassiopeia has to get through.

Pls no necro.