"Riot is biased towards Zed"

JMoormann·May 26, 2016·14 votes·1,771 views

Look how broken he is, he clearly needs nerfs

Checks champion.gg

49.97% win rate

But his ban rate is so high, that means he is strong

Checks champion.gg

LB has below 48% win rate and still a very high ban rate, ban rate is not a good indicator of power

But his win rate is low because people who don't know how to play him bring it down

Checks champion.gg

Above averagely experienced playerbase

But he is such an easy champion, you press R and get free kills

Checks champion.gg

Learning curve is pretty high, 47% WR for beginners to 53% for the most experienced players

People don't want to accept the facts (frustrating is not the same as broken), so I expect downvotes from people who only consider him balanced when he has a below 45% win rate.

50 Comments

Troy242621May 26, 20166 votes

You can misrepresent arguments against Zed all you'd like, but the fact is, Riot is nerfing him, and according to Meddler, he speculates that they will be nerfing him again, potentially multiple times, in the next coming patches. Clearly, Riot does not agree with the sentiment that he is balanced or fair, as you seem to be implying.

The reason your argument is fallacious is because people aren't saying Riot refuses to nerf Zed. They're saying they are being too cautious, and need to more swiftly address what makes Zed overbearing and oppressive. They're saying, instead of love-tapping him 3 patches in a row, they can give him a substantial nerf now, and buff him later if it over-nerfed him.

Nameless VoiceMay 28, 20162 votes

Pretty much this.

Zed has been out-of-line for a long, long time, and he rarely gets touched. Meanwhile, historically some other champions have become overpowered or overbearing due to changes, and have been immediately nerfed into being extremely sub-par. Eve's still down there. So is Yorick, though at least he's due a rework soon.

It's not even just a case of favouritism. It's the fact that Zed is clearly a problem and their changes are clearly not going to fix him, yet they are being extremely cautious, when even they know they're not doing enough.

NilokMay 28, 20161 votes

Eve and who?

Nameless VoiceMay 28, 20161 votes

I'm sure there was something I was supposed to remember... or someone?

IcyPepperMay 26, 20166 votes

People don't want to accept the facts (frustrating is not the same as broken)

I'm certain that several people have admitted it's his frustration factor, not his actual power, that's the cause of his high ban rate.

ChargeItDownMidMay 27, 20162 votes

[deleted]

Nameless VoiceMay 28, 20161 votes

Ranked is a mode where you are trying to win, yes, but this is still a game and it's still supposed to be fun. A lot of people really hate playing against certain champions, and don't find the game fun any more if they are in it. They are willing to maybe pick a sub-optimal ban to improve their enjoyment of the game - especially since it's not so sub-optimal given the high likelyhood that someone is going to get tilted by playing against a hated champion.

ChargeItDownMidMay 28, 20161 votes

[deleted]

RatbertMay 28, 20162 votes

Because so few people play them. It's like why old poppy wasn't really banned despite being the most infuriating champ.

Nameless VoiceMay 28, 20161 votes

This. Why ban Yorick when there's almost no chance of him being picked even if you don't?

Also, while Teemo being the most annoying champion in League is kind of a meme, I don't think it's really true. I rarely see people actually complaining about him on the rare occasion that he actually shows up.

Bobloser3555May 28, 20161 votes

Then it would be better to ban Yi and Illaoi.

StickyOctopiMay 26, 20165 votes

There's a lot of bad zeds, they think "he's op, gotta play him" which would account for the win ratio.

But a zed who knows how to play the champion can and will get a free kill every time ult is up. Simply because riot removed all counterplay from his kit now that you can't qss it.

I've never felt outplayed by a zed, he definitely needs to be banned every game.

JMoormannMay 26, 20162 votes

Did you read the post? Because I covered this.

"There's a lot ot bad Zeds" is, according to the stats which I trust more than your personal opinion, a false statement. He scores above average on the "Average Player Experience" (the average for Zed is over 60 games), so I think it's safe to say that the amount of bad Zed players is not very high.

AMYS GRAVEMay 27, 20163 votes

He scores above average on the "Average Player Experience" (the average for Zed is over 60 games),

Zed's average player experience is 59.2 games, putting him at 89th. He is not in fact above average. To even scratch the top 25 you've got to be over 100 ffs.

aaronautumnMay 26, 20164 votes

strawman y'all

Savage DeviMay 26, 20162 votes

How so? These are all arguments people make against Zed.

Mandang0May 26, 20164 votes

Big thing the OP is overlooking: The context in which Zed has a 50% winrate.

Imagine both Zed and some rarely-played champ both have a 50% winrate - do you think they're both equally strong? Of course they're not! Zed's winrate is artificially lower for many reasons:

Opponents have experience playing against Zed
Zed's being picked into many matchups

The opposite is true of someone like Galio, who currently boasts a high winrate. Galio is played rarely, so he is played into favorable matchups against opponents who haven't had to play against many Galios. (Additionally, the people playing Galio are probably very experienced on him).

In fact, there's not a time more than now when Zed's winrate would be so artificially lowered. It only stands to reason that if X is common in the meta and Y performs well against X that the meta is going to shift toward Y and bring down X's winrate. Zed being X is not a new development, and he's been popular for a long time, so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the meta's already at Y.

Pierce The VealMay 26, 20163 votes

I've been saying this but I get downvotes/ignored/trashtalked by people who are stating facts like "he's broken." I've had someone just today all caps tell me that I was wrong and that what people were saying about him being broke were "INDISPUTABLE FACTS."

ArchadriaMay 26, 20162 votes

Press r champ. Lissandra. Her r has a higher impact

Pierce The VealMay 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Press r champ. Lissandra. Her r has a higher impact

Agreed.

Buff Jax pleaseMay 26, 20162 votes

This community is biased towards mages.

That is a fact.

StickyOctopiMay 26, 20162 votes

The community just hates everything about the game tbh. The champs, the players, everything garners bitching from the community.

SchàdenfreudeMay 27, 20162 votes

lol look at all teh zed haters downvoting this hahaha. Not that I am a zed hater.

NilokMay 28, 20161 votes

I believe you may have gotten down voted for hating grammar though...

SchàdenfreudeMay 28, 20161 votes

I had bad grammar on purpose.

NilokMay 28, 20161 votes

Grammar Nazis don't care.

Void NargacugaMay 26, 20161 votes

Oh gods that whole "Press R get free kill" comment... Please tell me someone didn't actually say that.

Pierce The VealMay 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4sF07im8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-26T08:20:53.527+0000)

Oh gods that whole "Press R get free kill" comment... Please tell me someone didn't actually say that.

Not just someone, pretty much everyone complaining about him has said that at some point.

Void NargacugaMay 26, 20161 votes

I'm not even sure what to say to that then. If Zed DOESN'T use his abilities after ulting then the ult would have very little impact in his assassinations.

Pierce The VealMay 26, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bow hunter 16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4sF07im8,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-26T08:25:11.975+0000)

I'm not even sure what to say to that then. If DOESN'T use his abilities after ulting then the ult would have very little impact in his assassinations.

Exactly. And even using abilities doesn't necessarily cut it. He needs to apply as much damage as he possibly can.

Void NargacugaMay 26, 20161 votes

Just recently came out of a game as Zed actually now that I think about it.

So true. And then there is the factor of an item like item 3026 for example that could make it a potentially wasted ult and abilities, same could be said for item 3157 to a degree. Or some champions due to their kits: Kayle ! Seriously I learned that the hard way... T_T Still though I had fun (we lost) and learned something to look out for, I ended up going 20/9/9 though. But man was Kayle a nuisance to due their ult keeping a target alive and invulnerable! The Kayle player though I have to say was good!

StickyOctopiMay 26, 20168 votes

I'm assuming you've never been ulted by a zed, only for him to miss all his e/q and auto you 2-3 times for a kill with duskblade.

I've done it to people, people have done it to me. Zed can definitely miss everything and still get a free kill.

Void NargacugaMay 26, 20161 votes

I have been ulted by a Zed and this was back during Team Builder. I was playing trying to get good at her and my opponent happened to be playing Zed but was a Katarina main and knew my kit inside out.

Pierce The VealMay 26, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'm assuming you've never been ulted by a zed, only for him to miss all his e/q and auto you 2-3 times for a kill with duskblade.

I've done it to people, people have done it to me. Zed can definitely miss everything and still get a free kill.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the advanced version of the phenotype I mentioned earlier. He has anecdotal evidence this time.

Then funny thing is, to qualify it you needed an item passive on a 90 second cooldown to be up, and also needed to not die before you landed "2-3 auto attacks." And you also needed to be fed for that to happen.

StickyOctopiMay 26, 20167 votes

I guess I'll buy zed and intentionally miss my combos and still kill people, I'll make a montage. "High level zed outplays"

It isn't hard to be fed on a champion that's that lane dominant. It's literally, q, wqe, q, wqe, ult+ignite first blood. He has a toxic lane that's extremely easy to abuse vs almost every matchup.

Then after you get first blood, you either keep killing your laning opponent with every ult or roam bot/top for more free kills w/ every ult.

He just has a really easy to abuse toxic, no risk, no counterplay, safe lane and game. There's a reason why he's banned, and I'm glad I never have to deal with him.

And it will stay that way until they either add counterplay, or nerf the champion. If not, then no one's playing him and I support it.

Pierce The VealMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I guess I'll buy zed and intentionally miss my combos and still kill people, I'll make a montage. "High level zed outplays"

It isn't hard to be fed on a champion that's that lane dominant. It's literally, q, wqe, q, wqe, ult+ignite first blood. He has a toxic lane that's extremely easy to abuse vs almost every matchup.

Then after you get first blood, you either keep killing your laning opponent with every ult or roam bot/top for more free kills w/ every ult.

He just has a really easy to abuse toxic, no risk, no counterplay, safe lane and game. There's a reason why he's banned, and I'm glad I never have to deal with him.

And it will stay that way until they either add counterplay, or nerf the champion. If not, then no one's playing him and I support it.

To get first blood you had to wait till level 6, NOT miss any of those abilities that you listed even though you said you'll get fed while missing all of them, ult, and then blow a summoner spell. Which is ok, because he's strong in lane, but then he proceeds to hardcore falloff the entire rest of the game past 25 minutes. And don't go off telling me "zed doesn't fall off," because the stats clearly show he falls off HARD in exchange for an amazing early game.

Meanwhile someone like, say, Annie, can flash R W Q in any order for the most part and instantly kill someone, or an entire team late game, from range. Yeah no one complains there.

MissMikasaMay 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile someone like, say, Annie, can flash R W Q in any order for the most part and instantly kill someone, or an entire team late game, from range. Yeah no one complains there.

Ahem don't bring Annie into an argument about Zed. She's a burst mage, she's supposed to do that, you idiot.

Pierce The VealMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ahem don't bring Annie into an argument about Zed. She's a burst mage, she's supposed to do that, you idiot.

An assassin isn't supposed to burst you down? This is news to me.

MissMikasaMay 27, 20161 votes

I'm talking about Annie. You were all about how she can burst someone so quickly-I'm saying she's supposed to do that. -.- At least she can actually be turned on and captured unlike Zed who has way too much safety.

Pierce The VealMay 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm talking about Annie. You were all about how she can burst someone so quickly-I'm saying she's supposed to do that. -.- At least she can actually be turned on and captured unlike Zed who has way too much safety.

And that, I will legitimitely agree with. He's too safe because Riot went and changed his fucking original design, making his ultimate place shadows from where he's ulting instead of behind his target.

But I disagree with it being possible to turn on annie. That's fucking hard man. A three ability combo probably instantly killed you, and if not, you're stunned so she can auto you and ignite you. Her ability cooldowns make it easy for her to cycle through to her stun.

How about xerath then?

Brand?

Orianna?

There are soooo many burst/utility mages that just make Zed's burst look pitiful unless he is uholily fed.

The DeckownerMay 28, 20162 votes

You can literally see annie's charge bar now rito is so kind to you people who don't know how to counter one of the simplest mage in the game. Just wait til she use Q for csing a minion which uses all her charges and turn on her she can't get stun in one spellrotation after just burning all her charges.

Pierce The VealMay 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4sF07im8,comment-id=000100000000000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-28T00:54:56.722+0000)

You can literally see annie's charge bar now rito is so kind to you people who don't know how to counter one of the simplest mage in the game. Just wait til she use Q for csing a minion which uses all her charges and turn on her she can't get stun in one spellrotation after just burning all her charges.

Anyone with half a brain already kept track. Now it's just easier for people fully lacking a brain to play against her. However, she's still really strong.

MissMikasaMay 28, 20161 votes

If a good Annie combo'd you with her ult, then yes you are dead. BUT, if she missed her Tibbers stun placement, bam turn on her. If she used her charges on minions, turn on her. If you have a good bit of MR, you can turn on her after she stuns on you and quickly turn the tides and try to kill her before she can kill you.

Annie is the main burst mage in the game. Ori, Xerath, and Orianna don't get their burst out as quickly as she does.

With our AP nerfed though, Zed just looks even more like a God with his damage.

StickyOctopiMay 27, 20164 votes

Except annie has to commit to the fight, she doesn't have 2 free escapes to get out an entire lane away.

Zed get's a free, no counterplay, kill every time his ult is up. Then after using the ult you have multiple escape options. Annie does not.

Annie isn't an issue, you know what she's going to do and it's easy to avoid. Whenever I die to an annie, it's my fault entirely.

I've never felt outplayed by a zed on the other hand. My reaction literally every time is "Oh I hit everything on him and he missed half his kit, kills me, and gets out?"

The real reason he's banned is because having no counterplay at all isn't a fun concept.

MissMikasaMay 27, 20163 votes

Exactly. You explained it so well.

The DeckownerMay 28, 20162 votes

Did you know? Statistic shows majority of Zed first blood occur before 6. Wqe wqe free harass then wqew aa ignite easy first blood "outplayed"

Pierce The VealMay 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4sF07im8,comment-id=00010000000000010001000000000002,timestamp=2016-05-28T00:52:03.000+0000)

Did you know? Statistic shows majority of Zed first blood occur before 6. Wqe wqe free harass then wqew aa ignite easy first blood "outplayed"

Alright, so where'd you get this statistic?

The DeckownerMay 28, 20162 votes

Zed item 3142 item 3147 R (point and blank)aa EQ aa R(back to shadow)