The Azir R nerfs will only make him more unforgiving and harder to pick up

JMoormann··134 votes·13,779 views
5/17 PBE Update

So Azir just got some nerfs on the PBE. I can understand this, with his 90% P&B at MSI. However, I feel like the way he is currently being nerfed is completely the wrong way. So let's look at the changes.

Emperor's Divide (R): Wall duration lowered to 2 seconds from 5/6/7 No longer grants 20% movement speed for 1 second when passing through wall for Azir and Allies

Azir basically has 2 ways to use his ult.

  1. Defensively or as a disengage. When someone is in your face, you ult in his direction and push him away. Then you can either run away, or you can make use of the wall to kite your opponent. This one is fairly easy to pull off, and is his most important safety net during teamfights.

  2. Offensively. This is Azir's signature play: the Azirsec to catch a carry out of position and push them into your team, or to push someone under your turret. Though rewarding, this one is extremely difficult and risky, and only done by experienced Azir players, as dashing into the enemy team is very dangerous for a squishy mage like Azir, and it costs you your most important defensive tool.

And what is currently the problem with Azir? It's not the beginning, or the average Azir player, who only uses ult 1. It's the Azir player who has hundreds of games on him, who is capable of making plays that a champion who already has such high damage shouldn't be able to do. It's the player who does ult 2.

But who is hit by the nerfs? Player 2 won't care: if you knock that squishy ADC in your team he shouldn't be able to escape anyway, whether the wall lasts 2 or 7 seconds. The movement speed doesn't matter much either, as your team won't have to walk through the wall to kill the target.

But player 1? He is definitely hit by the nerfs. A teamfight will always last longer than 2 seconds, and if your ult disappears after 2 seconds, you are vulnerable for the rest of the fight. W-E has short range, W-E-Q means that you won't deal damage for the next 5 seconds. You also can no longer use the movement speed to keep distance from melee enemies who have to walk around. It's this player that will large a large part of his safety net. And this player already has a 44% win rate.

The nerfs don't fix the problem (his very experienced players who crush everyone), but they will make him even harder to balance across all ELOs, as the difference between bad, average and good players will be even worse.

TL;DR: The Azir nerfs will only target the bad and average Azir players, who are already struggling, while leaving the truly good players relatively untouched.

EDIT: Keep in mind that he is already on a 49.5% win rate, so it's not like he is so insanely broken that he needs heavy nerfs. The only ELO where he is performing too well is pro play, but like I said, they won't be hit quite as hard by this nerf.

157 Comments

KGBcommunist38 votes

anytime i see a champ get played or banned consistently at the pro scene i automatically assume that he he/she will be getting nerfs. I saw aurelion sol get banned at msi because fucking huhi plays it alot. Now hes getting nerfs.

YCitizenSnipsY10 votes

They gave their reason for why Aurelion Sol got nerfed and it certainly had nothing to do with how Huhi played. If they were balancing by his mid play every mid laner in the game would be busted.

Besides I doubt the nerfs are going to do much to new players on Azir, he is already hard enough for average players to make use of, and he has been FoTM in competitive in the past and was complete trash in non competitive play. I think OP is just over reacting.

Evewynn10 votes

I doubt he would have gotten nerfed if he wasn't seen at MSI

YCitizenSnipsY17 votes

Aurelion Sol lost both of his games in hilariously bad fashion. Again the didn't nerf him becasue of Huhi. Next you will be telling me Leona will get nerfed becasue of Mata's stellar play on her.

LeprechaunJinx9 votes

Or Nami nerfs because of her appearance on TSM for the last 3 games.

rtbf2256182413 votes

Actually, Aurelion was scheduled for additional nerfs before MSI.

Remlap122318 votes

Honestly, I really don't care. Despite all of Azir's nerfs, he still is ungodly frustrating to play against.

Zenthon Prime30 votes

And this won't change a thing about that, sadly. It'll just gut him.

Remlap122316 votes

I know. I really do hate saying that, because I know people do enjoy playing champions like Azir, but until he stops being so darn oppressive he's going to stay in the same boat as Kalista.

Troll for Trump4 votes

Azir is what it felt like to play against Yorick.(Back when he was more...prominent) Except it's not Yorick, it's better.

TotalJerk16 votes

Fucking thunderlord's is a big part of why laning against him sucks. A lot of champions pretty much cant answer the borderline free proc for half your health when he hits 2.

Nahara17 votes

These Azir nerfs make me really sad. I mean, I know he's a strong pick, but come on...

Nidalee SO NYAAA3 votes

His been a strong pick for a long time now. Just look at Nidalee shes getting the same treatment

Kanzler16 votes

Dont forget the nerfs to the attack speed from stinger. That will also hit his main source of damage. After this, he may be ok when played by pros but utter garbage when played by the rest of us plebs.

Azir has half the kit he started with. Let's count the ways.

Passive: CDR no longer results in attack speed Q: no longer does damage per sand soldier W: passive CDR changed to passive attack speed. not really a removal but a change. E: no longer knocks people up when you hit them. R: Major duration nerf + removal of allied movement speed.

Azir has gone through a major rework to the scale of the ryze rework just through nerfs alone.

EROTIC RAID BOSS6 votes

bizarre to me they think Taliyah's wall will be ok though lol

Hard Penetrator4 votes

Her wall doesn't deal dmg.

EROTIC RAID BOSS5 votes

it just cuts off half the map

blkKalameet6 votes

for both teams. you can screw your team if you misplaced it.

EROTIC RAID BOSS5 votes

whats your point lol. azirs wall cant stay around for 5 seconds and it doesn't cover half a lane. Taliyah's wall will be much more impactful used in that way, and it currently stays a lot longer than 2 seconds. hard to see that changing since she has to ride it.

ArbiterOfTruth5 votes

She has the option to jump on it and get off at any point. She isn't forced to ride it the entire length.

MagosAmphrose2 votes

She isn't even forced to ride it at all if she doesn't want to.

Dataless9 votes

The nerf to Emperor's Divide seem like trying to trim power away from Azir that isn't his primary function (long range consistent magic DPS). It's a shame because his Ult is now the shortest duration terrain creation ability in the game and it's his "high moment" spell. But he IS very strong and so it's either this of a nerf to his damage.

MisterHealYoGirl9 votes

The way I see it is that Azir's main thing is long-ranged hyper scaling AoE magical DPS. Nerfing his other capabilities lets him keep the high of that power curve while making him worse at doing other things (peeling for an ADC, largely). Now, the ability is less about unanswerable terrain alteration and more about a fight reset or risky engage.

WoonStruck3 votes

{quoted}

The way I see it is that Azir's main thing is long-ranged hyper scaling AoE magical DPS. Nerfing his other capabilities lets him keep the high of that power curve while making him worse at doing other things (peeling for an ADC, largely). Now, the ability is less about unanswerable terrain alteration and more about a fight reset or risky engage.

This.

MrWasjig9 votes

MORE Azir nerfs!? I don't even play this champion but damn do I feel sorry for his players.

2 seconds though!? Might as well just rework it into something else, because one of the strongest factors of the wall (beyond the two listed) is it's ability to segregate a team, doing so by being a longstanding obstacle in a fight...2 seconds at all ranks though!? ALL RANKS!? 2 SECONDS!? 4 AD! (Okay I'll stop, sorry)

Look it's obvious the 'ol fanatical bird needs a bit of wing clipping but this, as already clearly stated by the OP won't clip shit. Because the good birds don't need their wings anymore because they've moved over to using flying machines instead. (Good Azir players won't be affected, bad and average ones will get a kick in the teeth).

Weathered3 votes

{quoted}

Dont forget the nerfs to the attack speed from stinger. That will also hit his main source of damage. After this, he may be ok when played by pros but utter garbage when played by the rest of us plebs.

Azir has half the kit he started with. Let's count the ways.

Passive: CDR no longer results in attack speed Q: no longer does damage per sand soldier W: passive CDR changed to passive attack speed. not really a removal but a change. E: no longer knocks people up when you hit them. R: Major duration nerf + removal of allied movement speed.

Azir has gone through a major rework to the scale of the ryze rework just through nerfs alone.

RIP...

Randomonium5 votes

Great points. Sure he's a great pick at the pro but everyone else can't use him effectively. If they want to nerf him they should nerf his skill ceiling, not his skill floor.

The real question is where SHOULD he be nerfed (if at all.) In the past his E really is the move that separates beginner players from experienced ones and that has also been when he has typically been nerfed. Maybe nerf the shield he gets from his E instead? Thoughts?

Astôlfo12 votes

Azir doesn't even need nerfs.

A little Peepo19 votes

{quoted}

Azir doesn't even need nerfs.

Yes... he does. He has a steep curve and generally sucks in the hands of unexperienced players but azir can make beautiful things happen. Maybe these nerfs are a little much tho

Astôlfo3 votes

No, he doesn't. He has one of the highest skill ceilings in this entire game, and he's not going to be doing things like that without a hefty amount of experience.

LankPants22 votes

And once he reaches that ceiling he's flat-out broken. A champ having a high skill requirement is not an excuse for them being broken.

blfUvZ8Ybu5 votes

{quoted}

And once he reaches that ceiling he's flat-out broken. A champ having a high skill requirement is not an excuse for them being broken.

High skill requirement and 44% win rate 1-5 games.55% win rate 125+ games.

Normal.Not broken.

RocketRelm6 votes

Relevant Bit: Azir has a win rate of 55%.

Champions have been nerfbatted for having win rates lower than that.

The 44% win rate and the 55% win rate do NOT 'average' to 49% win rate, even if the literal # of games played evens him to a 49% win rate. The entire purpose you take those two numbers separately is to see entry level power and optimal power, so you can pull levers ON optimal power.

1 800 MID LANE6 votes

This could be said for a lot of champions across the board. Not just Azir. Ahri, Fizz, Lissandra, Orianna.

This argument would say that a lot of champions need nerfed.

Oh, and don't look at my play history and tell me that I'm just sticking up for my main. This is just statistical facts that all could apply to this argument.

Audiomancy20 votes

Azir's obnoxiousness comes from the fact that he can poke you from across the lane. The ult nerfs literally aren't going to do anything about that. They'll just punish people who play defensively.

FiddlesOnTheRoof4 votes

Ya. God forbid players who put time into a champion should be punished for having a high win rate on that champion.

EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votes

I actually think they are trying to nerf azirsec and make it less of a game changer. he isn't amazing in duels which is prob why no change to e

Gigathor3 votes

Personally I barely use that shield, only if I know I won't be able to escape I try to get a shield juuuust in case it saves my butt agaisnt an enemy gank, and usually it doesn't.

MrNuclearPumpkin5 votes

People forget that Azir has been nerfed a TON of times already. Sand Soldiers used to apply Fervor of Battle stacks, his Q used to deal additional damage per soldier, his E used to knock people up, he used to get attack speed with his Cooldown. His Q's damage got nerfed TWICE with V5.3, then they reduced the range of the soldiers cast.

Seriously, Azir is a strong champion but he DOESN'T need a nerf. Tank Ekko, Ryze, Fizz, Kindred, and probably a few others that neesd damage nerfs.

If he does a need a nerf, I cannot see how nerfing his ultimate (Which actually was really effective for keeping tankko off of you) would help anything. As JMoormann previously stated with his post. All this will do is make the bad Azir players worse and leave the experienced Azir players completely untouched. :/

Sasogwa4 votes

I'm still baffled. Are they really dividing by 3 the duration of his wall? That's an insane nerf.

Byuiso3 votes

Rioters have said Azir is recognized as the mechanically hardest champion to play. 2 seconds? That is extreme for the hardest champion in the game.

Mandang03 votes

Considering Azir's wall is actually an ultimate, it should last at least as long as Yasuo's wall.

HeartPalpitation2 votes

Riot mainly nerfs based off competitive, azir was completely out of meta in season 5 then when everything else gets nerfed he pops up and is "S tier" in s6... not because he is broken or does too much damage, but because everything else that was being played just got worse. It's a non-stop cycle of nerfs and buffs when champions become FOTM... hell after azir gets nerfed a new champion will take his spot, and guess what? That champion will get nerfed. eventually every champion in this game will be a shitty version of their old selves. I almost promise you that eventually after all these nerfs and shifts in meta azir will get buffs because he isn't "doing well at the moment". This is just how riot works.

devdev4631 votes

This is what I was thinking.

HeartPalpitation2 votes

think of how many time elise has been nerfed/gutted then buffed to s tier then nerfed again it's actually insane how many changes certain champs get

Abyssphere4 votes

[{quoted}](name=and it was k,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ygK1EXsx,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2016-05-18T00:03:26.306+0000)

think of how many time elise has been nerfed/gutted then buffed to s tier then nerfed again it's actually insane how many changes certain champs get

For a champion released in 2012, Elise's balance history is actually pretty bland. She started out very strong, was strong for a very long time, then got gutted and was trash, then got massive buffs and was amazing. She's been nerfed a few times since then and has been consistently decent to fairly strong for the last 9 months or so.

Everyone thinks Elise has had this insanely variable balance history but in terms of balance she's only ever had three distinct periods. Very strong, then weak, then pretty strong. It's actually not a very exciting history. She's been featured in an absolute ton of patch notes but only a couple of her balance changes have ever actually shifted her power wildly.

Chaos Ascent6 votes

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Azir was completely out of meta in Season 5 because he had the highest pick/ban % of all mid lane champions in Worlds 2015 (discounting Lulu who was also a frequent Top and Support pick in Season 5).

http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/2015_Season_World_Championship/Statistics/Champions

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

I really don't see why they're removing the movespeed boost since I don't ever remember anyone using it to move faster.

LeprechaunJinx4 votes

It's a source of invisible power that he doesn't really need is all.

The original intention behind the speedup was likely that Emperor's Divide was intended to be used as a peel/disengage device primarily whereas now it's used as a cc device and offensive displacement. Even if it didn't necessarily mean much to keep on him, there's no real reason for it to stay either and just adds more power to his kit that many did not even know about.

Abyssphere5 votes

{quoted}

I really don't see why they're removing the movespeed boost since I don't ever remember anyone using it to move faster.

That's the whole point. They're removing the obscure stuff in his kit that's hard to make use of so that his absolute skill ceiling is lower. That's the sort of thing they should be getting rid of, because it's power the less amazing Azir players can do without.

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