[POLL] Ashe: Balanced, underpowered, or overpowered?
Since discussing any points will lead to flaming or trolls, just vote.
I voted UP.
Since discussing any points will lead to flaming or trolls, just vote.
I voted UP.
Balanced for what she does, it's just that she's a bit unusual as an ADC because her kit brings in a lot of utility.
Balanced, but she just feels unexciting and unrewarding to play.
Ashe has so much of her identity tied to range and CC you must use them to be at all effective with her, which basically means you always have to stick with teammates. Because her team-fight presence is really strong (range is a massive asset when a front line is there, and a 1 second stun means 5 seconds for your team to capitalize on), her dueling potential is abysmal because balance.
You can't really do carry-the-team-on-my-back plays with Ashe due to how heavily reliant she is on having allies that are on the same page. Completely ignoring the CC power of her ultimate and using it to snipe is literally the only thing Ashe has going for her in securing last hits against enemy champions as well, making it fairly difficult to not just wind up with nothing but assists.
Overall, Ashe is like a support that scales with AD. She's solid, just doesn't hog any glory whatsoever. Less than many actual supports in many cases, as a typical support has a godly start and ~eh end-game, where Ashe has a pretty weak start and a solid finish, provided she got enough assists.
Wayy underpowered. One damaging ability. Her slow and ulti kind of make up for it, but only when you're kiting. Its good for chasing too, but that can lead you into unwanted ganks while chasing. or even the support to wreck you while going for the kill. If not ahead quick, you won't be at all. I only ashe when i have a support like blitz or tresh. Closing gap then slowing with your 1 is the best for her. But otherwise. Sonas heal or leonas stuns wont do much if the other team has a heal in any sense. Just my bit of mind.
Btw, I'm really good with Ashe, It's just shes one that i have to put the most work in, to get the most out. Her e should be like ezreals W that hits only champions but also only in the aoe where it lands, and still give it the effect to reveal the area for even just a minimal damage. Her W should also not stop on the first hit. It'd be nice if it pierces through all enemies (But that might be going too far.)
After all, I barely use my W when playing ashe. It's only used for minions and that only. Its a waste. The time it takes to use your W i could have put in AA's to the the same damage, without the longer cast time. therefor putting you further away from the enemy when they're running
When comparing against a jinx who's Q is basically your W (Minion blaster) and Triple auto attacks. Jinxes Reaaaaaaally strong W Poke, Her E Area stun, and her Ultimate the same as ashes without the stun, but still, stronger.. Ashe just seems, outdated..
Plus let's not forget jinx's passive. Pentakill anyone?
Wayy underpowered. One damaging ability.
I...have to downvote you for this.
Both Volley and Enchanted Crystal Arrow do damage.
Wayy underpowered. One damaging ability.
I...have to downvote you for this.
Both Volley and Enchanted Crystal Arrow do damage.
Sorry wasn't specific. One damaging ability that you regularly use. Ultimate has a large CD.
If you hit arrow=balanced if you miss=UP
I tend to agree on that Gypsyleeboy she is way underpowered. I believe it more due to the fact that Ashe's kit is somewhat outdated. I mean she is harder to gank than most other adcs but that is about all she can do in laning phase. She isn't impressive during the laning phase and most of the damage she creates is off of that one guaranteed critical strike that she has, which depended on the match, can be enough for the team. Personally I would like to see Ashe create more utility for a team with a little more damage, with less itemization. As Ashe is right now she is neither impressive in a game nor really balanced, but does offer enough to the right compositions (which are rarely seen except in premade 5s, in my own experience).
I, for one, would like her to have a different passive. Her current one is better on an assassin, not her. It rewards you for NOT attacking, which is fundamentally against ADC design.
Riot should really consider swapping her passive for Talon's. It'd make a LOT of sense.
I tend to agree on that Gypsyleeboy she is way underpowered. I believe it more due to the fact that Ashe's kit is somewhat outdated. I mean she is harder to gank than most other adcs but that is about all she can do in laning phase. She isn't impressive during the laning phase and most of the damage she creates is off of that one guaranteed critical strike that she has, which depended on the match, can be enough for the team. Personally I would like to see Ashe create more utility for a team with a little more damage, with less itemization. As Ashe is right now she is neither impressive in a game nor really balanced, but does offer enough to the right compositions (which are rarely seen except in premade 5s, in my own experience).
I said she seems outdated. I basically was saying that. Her W should pierce through all enemies, Giving her a better laning phase, and making her harder to hide from.
When comparing against a jinx who's Q is basically your W (Minion blaster) and Triple auto attacks. Jinxes Reaaaaaaally strong W Poke, Her E Area stun, and her Ultimate the same as ashes without the stun, but still, stronger.. **Ashe just seems, outdated.. **
Mostly underpowered. Her kit is designed to sacrifice damage for kiting ability, which back in the old days of League made her an unbelievably powerful duelist and, many think, heralded the rise of Mobility Creep which completely destroyed her edge. That role has since been taken up by Caitlyn, who brings more damage and better kiting ability but less utility. And who needs that? Right now utility is the role of everyone else while the ADC exists only to kill people. If you released a character with Ashe's skillset today most people would look at them as a support
Think about it: Passive + Spellthief's is a great little combo since you won't attack much anyway. Q is a permaslow, for helping your ADC kill people. W is an AoE slow with a long range that's good for softening up minions for last-hitting. E is extra vision, like a free blue trinket, that also gives you more gold. R is a long-range low-damage stun that's awesome for initiation or for peeling.
Looks a lot like a support's kit, doesn't it? Which sums up Ashe's major problem in a nutshell.
Mostly underpowered. Her kit is designed to sacrifice damage for kiting ability, which back in the old days of League made her an unbelievably powerful duelist and, many think, heralded the rise of Mobility Creep which completely destroyed her edge.
Ashe has never been a solid duelist. She's always been destroyed in a 1v1 by pretty much everyone. Max Stun Arrow + Teleport is the only 1v1 scenario she'll reliably win.
Also - mobility creep is a lie. Kassadin, Jax, Kassadin, Katarina, Kassadin, Tristana, Kassadin, Master Yi, Kassadin, and Corki are all part of the original 40 champions LoL launched with. Nidalee I think was 41, Ezreal 43. Twisted Fate used to be able to teleport anywhere rather than just lots of places (with his E no less), same deal with Pantheon. There has also never been a time in LoL's history where mobility hasn't been important. Mobility was important before, it's important now.
Ever since I started playing back when Poppy, Gragas, and Pantheon were released people complained about mobility and mobility creep. Every single season people complain about mobility and mobility creep. But here's the thing: mobility actually has to creep up in power for mobility creep to exist.
Considering Kassadin is still arguably the most mobile champion in LoL, considering Nidalee and TF got reworked to be less mobile, and considering no-mobility champions like Kog'Maw are still getting played: Mobility Creep is a lie.
Mobility Creep is a lie.
"Mobility creep? We have no idea what you mean."
"Mobility creep? We have no idea what you mean."
None of those champions are any faster than ones LoL started out with. Archetypes favoring mobility have always had mobility, new champions simply having an average level of mobility doesn't cause power creep from mobility.
Are Fiora, Xin'Zhao, and Jarvin any more mobile than Jax? Are Vayne, Lucian, and Graves any more mobile than Ezreal, Corki, and Tristana? Is Shyvana any faster than Dr. Mundo and Udyr? Is Kha'Zix, Nocturne, Talon, Wukong, and Diana any more mobile than Kassadin, Shaco, and Katarina, and Evelynn?
Is Rengar any faster than...why on earth did you put Rengar on there?
Ok, I'm 100% certain you have no idea what power creep is.
Power creep means new content is pushing out old content doing to be slightly stronger. The newest content is the best content. Mobility Creep means mobility is getting stronger and stronger with each champion release, to the point it phases out old champions that just aren't mobile enough. Mobility Creep doesn't mean Riot is releasing champions with mobility.
For mobility creep to be real and assassin/fighter deal like Rengar would actually have to be faster than champions like Kassadin, Yi, Tryndamere, Shaco. Which he is not.
Are Fiora, Xin'Zhao, and Jarvin any more mobile than Jax?
Yes. Fiora can dash twice to Jax's once and use her ult as a jump. Jarvan's flag-dash doesn't need a target while also hitting multiple targets and CCing them. He can also leap with his ultimate. As for Xin, he can jump to a person then knock everyone else away from them.
Are Vayne, Lucian, and Graves any more mobile than Ezreal, Corki, and Tristana?
Yes. Lucian has a borderline spammable dash, which in addition to being free removes slows and goes well with his passive, and Vayne can spam Tumble and has her ultimate to boot, which makes her move faster AND stealth while tumbling. Graves isn't really that mobile, but he has a dash for no apparent reason other than the fact he would suck without one.
Is Shyvana any faster than Dr. Mundo and Udyr?
Yes. Shyvana has Burnout, which lasts longer than Udyr's boost and has more uptime than Mundo's ultimate while also dealing heavy AoE damage, and can leap with Dragon's Descent, which just makes Burnout even better.
Is Kha'Zix, Nocturne, Talon, Wukong, and Diana any more mobile than Kassadin, Shaco, and Katarina, and Evelynn?
While nobody really out-mobilizes Kassadin, Kha'zix has a jump that resets on kill, Nocturne has a movespeed boost and can dash an enormous distance, Wukong has a dash and a stealth-granting decoy, Talon has a jump and stealth, and Diana's jump resets on hit rather than on kill. All of them have advantages over Shaco, Kat, and Eve in some way, shape, or form (though not necessarily in every situation).
Is Rengar any faster than...why on earth did you put Rengar on there?
The bush leaps are real and a good Rengar will abuse the crap out of them.
Ok, I'm 100% certain you have no idea what power creep is.
Power creep means new content is pushing out old content doing to be slightly stronger. The newest content is the best content. Mobility Creep means mobility is getting stronger and stronger with each champion release, to the point it phases out old champions that just aren't mobile enough. Mobility Creep doesn't mean Riot is releasing champions with mobility.
For mobility creep to be real and assassin/fighter deal like Rengar would actually have to be faster than champions like Kassadin, Yi, Tryndamere, Shaco. Which he is not.
Mobility creep does exist because mobility is getting more powerful. Why? Because it's so much more common that mobility is now a requirement. Sure you had mobile champions before, but they tended to be squishy and often only had a singular dash, or just a movement speed bonus which is directly countered by slows. Low-mobility characters are almost unusable in competitive play unless they make up for it with a ton of CC while super high mobility picks like Lee Sin and Kassadin are fought viciously over. It used to be you could get away with it because you could guarantee that there would only be one or two mobile team members while everyone else would be slow, and those mobile members could get shut down by someone like Janna or Ashe. Can't do that when the enemy team has multiple people with multiple gapclosers per member.
TL;DR: Mobility used to have a cost tacked on to it. It no longer does, instead being tossed on almost every champion in the form of a dash or a movespeed boost. Even some summoner spells give movespeed bonuses now when they didn't before. Mobility Creep is happening because mobility is everywhere, and those who don't have it are being left behind.

Remember when people didn't dismiss these types of champions just because "Mobility counters the crap out of them."? Nautilus and Sejuani are even meant to shut down mobility.
Balanced for what she is, though way underpowered compared to other ADCs.
If you look up Ashe's patch history, she's never received any *big * changes (even the ability reworks don't change much).
I'd argue that Ashe has always been the most balanced/balance-able champion in the league .
That being said she's never really been overpowered(the last time she was nerfed we added Leona, and the time before that was a year earlier).
The main problem with Ashe I see is that she has an ability (Hawkshot) that is nothing more than a glorified avarice blade with a weak cv attached... no damage necessary on the skill just throw a 1.5-2 second silence on it and watch the rage flow.
Hawkshot is designed as a team ability, not a solo one. It grants vision, and any LCS pro will tell you vision is game-winning in League when applied appropriately.
The extra 3 gold per unit kill doesn't hurt either. Makes Ashe able to buy wards without dipping too much into her ADC fund.
Her real problems are that her passive sucks, and her Q is both uninteresting and obsolete.
I've always had a lot of fun playing Ashe. Her total attack speed is at the very top (tied with Vayne), which gives her an edge over a lot of other ADCs and lets her build more AD without having to worry too much about itemizing for attack speed. And her animations have always felt very satisfying for some reason. She is one of the smoothest champs to play, at least in my experience.
The one thing I'd like to see boosted is the slow on her Q...it's pretty mediocre, especially early. 5-10% more would make a huge difference.
I'd love that too, but since it's a permaslow, it can't be strong or it's OP.
Ashe is my favorite ADC so far. Her Ult brings a fat pile of CC to a team fight or is perfect for catching some one out of position. I tend to build a
on her because it helps her absolutely melt a tower and mixed with a
gives her a fair amount of dueling potential. Because of her kit design you will end up with more assists than kills come mid-late game. But to me winning is winning. I can still feel like im contributing if I go 3/2/15 instead of 15/2/3. I see how much dmg im putting down, what my slows are doing and how fast im melting single targets/towers. Give me a
or a
in that bot lane with me? TASTY.
UP. Ashe don't need mobility because her CC are good(His Q are op at rank 5 and ult too). Ashe just need damage(W has nice scales but low base damage). She need to be a funny champion to play. A passive like other sniper, varus and caitlyn, which increments damage in team fight.
Playing Ashe is boring. No fun. Her ultimate is nice. But I prefer play varus with frozen mallet xD.
If you play ashe, you need aggresive support like karma, thresh or leona. Thresh works very well with her.
She is UP and no funny. I never will pick her in normal or ranked.