is Phantom Dancer kept in the game solely for Yasuo (+1)?

NodirjonSattarov·Nov 23, 2018·3 votes·1,222 views

The item is terrible on every champion besides Tryndamere and Yasuo. This item is sought out by these two champions because of their interaction with crit. I just love coming back to land to see Yasuo with 60% crit and 12% damage mitigation. It gives him greater MS to run away from people that are chasing him and gives him chasing potential. There is no other item that screams "Yasuo, pick me!" than this item.

The item is garbage on literally everyone else but god tier on 2 champions. It should be removed.

16 Comments

The entire teamNov 23, 20182 votes

Not really. Sure they work wonderfully on Tryn and Yas, but they also work considerably well with other duelists. It's just that other characters are more focused on damage compared to attack speed and damage reduction. Have you ever tried Darius or Mundo with Phantom Dancer? It's amazing for damage.

NodirjonSattarovNov 23, 20182 votes

In normal builds do Darius or Mundo go Phantom Dancer? No, they don't. In normal situations they'd be punished for building that way but not everyone understands that. Statistically, it isn't core on anyone but Yasuo and Tryndamere.

The entire teamNov 23, 20181 votes

It's core to them, but it's also an option for them. Vayne, Xayah and Graves can benefit from them due to thheir godly dueling. Not all Yasuos and Tryndameres build Phantom anyway if they have to build around it, since they are also godly splitpushers. But that's it.

It's not about PD being kept in the game for them. It's kept around as an option, just like almost every other item in the game.

NodirjonSattarovNov 23, 20181 votes

I'm sorry but how is PD an "option" for Yasuo? There is literally no other option besides SS but since it's weaker in comparison to PD he will always go PD. He doesn't have options, they can't change the item because he (ab)uses it and they don't want Yasuo to explore other build paths. They're satisfied with his current build path and how stupid he is with Conqueror. They refuse to admit that despite his win rate being low, due to monkeys playing the champion and walking it down, he is stronger than what the statistics are showing. They wont change him or his items because of his fanbase. Don't you remember the legendary day 1 hotfix because the 10k Yasuo subreddit cried that he wasn't OP anymore.

The entire teamNov 23, 20182 votes

I meant that PD is an option for Yasuo, just better than other items depending on the situation. Would you rush Phantom if a Leblanc or Syndra kept bursting you in lane? No, that wouldn't be the safe option, cuz to survive, you would build Hexdrinker first. Yes, PD is a core item because Yasuo can make it work, but it's not always built as a first item.

I still don't see why the item should be removed because only two characters use it in their core. Should Muramana be deleted since it is core for Ezreal? No it shouldn't.

NodirjonSattarovNov 23, 20181 votes

PD is core on Yasuo. Something being an "option" would be the current toplane clown fiesta of itemization where Garen and Darius pick Triforce instead of Black Cleaver. BC is certainly equally viable but Triforce brings more stats to the table. This wouldn't have been an issue if 2 ADCs for 2 seasons in a row didn't abuse BC (Lucian & MF). PD gives enough defensive stats that you don't need to build Hexdrinker/Maw versus Syndra or LB. Alternatively you could build Mercurial Treads and play around your shield. Yasuo brings too much to the table and PD is just too good on him but bad on everyone else.

If an item is only viable for a few champions then the item is bad. They reworked Guinsoos so many times to make it more viable on a multitude of champions but look at it now. Kai'sa is the only one that can really utilize it, hell she is the reason why it was nerfed and everyone wants it gone. Kog'Maw and Varus were previous abusers. Yes, Muramana should be removed from the game because Ezreal is the ONLY one that builds it. Only a few champions built Zephyr but what happened to that item? It was removed for lack of use. Same with Sword of the Occult. In their own words they said that only a few champions bought it and utilized it but it wasn't a healthy item for the game. For some reason they kept Mejais. There is a reason why they try to avoid singular items for champions. Can you imagine if every champion in the game had their own personal core item? How could you possibly diversify itemization at that point.

The entire teamNov 23, 20181 votes

PD does not have a defensive stat: it only has an effect when you hit the champ with it, which is something you most likely can't do against a LB or Syndra. Counter-arguing it with stating that Yasuo can hit whatever he wants with his Q and E would be an Ad Hominem fallacy. And why you say that it's good on Yas, but bad on everybody else? Didn't you make an argument about Tryndamere with PD?

Same with Muramana. Sure, it works with Ezreal, but what if I want to use it for lane Udyr cuz I don't like his manacosts? It's an option that others should be welcome to try.

Yes, there will be items that will not be good for anybody, and they may be removed from the game. But that doesn't mean that everybody should have their own personal core item. Or else it would lack diversity in League and become stale; and that would kill the one thing that makes players want to keep playing the game, which is the customization of items on certain champions. I'm pretty sure Guinsoo's doesn't just work with Kai'sa now. Varus, Kayle and Kog'maw (rest the voidsent's heart) can work with the new Guinsoo's. Sure Zephyr was deleted due to lack of use, and I can agree with that, but Sword of the Occult was a monster for those who could use it effectively, as it was stronger than Mejai's due to AD scaling for champs who only need that and nothing else like Zed, Riven and god forbid Rengar.

And for the record: Riot tried giving a core item to a champ once, named Viktor. On release, it never worked. So if we went with your logic on deleting items that are good with one champ only, should we delete Viktor's only way to deal damage through his mediocre un-upgraded items, and therefore delete Viktor's existence altogether? The answer is a resounding OH HELL NO! Riot buffed him, and made his hex-core completely viable, and people learned to build around it in the meantime.

Modl Ryden lNov 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The entire team,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4qF2TefV,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-23T05:16:25.753+0000)

It's core to them, but it's also an option for them. Vayne, Xayah and Graves can benefit from them due to thheir godly dueling. Not all Yasuos and Tryndameres build Phantom anyway if they have to build around it, since they are also godly splitpushers. But that's it.

It's not about PD being kept in the game for them. It's kept around as an option, just like almost every other item in the game.

Yeah like Ohmwrecker.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

In normal builds do Darius or Mundo go Phantom Dancer? No, they don't. In normal situations they'd be punished for building that way but not everyone understands that. Statistically, it isn't core on anyone but Yasuo and Tryndamere.

How is that bad? You don't build maw or bt every game either.

MagicFlyingLlamaNov 23, 20181 votes

In what situation would a mundo be building anything that synergizes with PD?

NemeBroNov 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

In what situation would a mundo be building anything that synergizes with PD?

He doesn't need to. The item's crit and attack speed already synergizes with the huge AD steroid on his E for killing champions as well as turrets, and also comes with movement speed and some survivability, which he likes.

The entire teamNov 23, 20181 votes

A mundo running towards you with Ulti and PD, walking through minions, and using the attack speed and crit on PD to attack with his E steroid hits for consistent damage. Sure, it hinders your survivability, but some people just want to watch the world burn. Other than Titanic, that would be Mundo's other damage item.

Tr4shB4NSYST3MNov 23, 20182 votes

Is item 3003 kept in the game solely for Ryze ? I don't see any other champion building this item, except maybe Cassiopeia and Anivia rEmOvE tHiS iTeM

NodirjonSattarovNov 23, 20181 votes

It literally is - there is no champion in the game that synergizes with AAS than Ryze. His passive synergizes with it immensely and I think they should remove the item. Cass probably needs it but Anivia can get away with using RoA. If Ryze's abilities didn't cost so much fucking mana then he could go a different build path.