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Deal Damage or Take Damage - Not Both

SymbolicFear··2 votes·1,301 views

People don't understand my point here.... I am not asking if they can be dealt with, cause they obviously can be, my point is they can do a lot more than the rest of champions for their role, therefore, they need to be toned down to fit in the balance of power for each role.

I honestly find it ridiculous for champions who build full tank or nearly full tank with a single AD item, to be able to deal as much damage as they do. Garen, Darius, and Tahm Kench, are prime examples of this. In fact, they are the main causes of this concern. There are many champions that are tanky but deal damage, yet those are more balanced as they don't deal anywhere near the ones mentioned above do. Garen will rarely build 1 AD item and will often just build full tank and still be able single handedly carry a game and deal more damage than the rest of his team mates, killing multiple enemies in a fight while tanking all the damage. Darius has % health healing, bleed, and massive increase in damage along with an ult that deals immense damage and is reset upon every kill. Tahm Kench has massive utility, he can save allies and turn a 5v5 into a 5v4 with his W and has two health bars with his E with damage that scales on his health, not to mention the IMMENSE % health damage on his W. Why is it that you can build extremely tanky with these champions, and still deal more damage than the rest of your team?! No wonder the ADC role was turned into the least influential role in the game when any marksman other than Vayne or Kalista was picked. They were made obsolete as their are options that don't need to be protected and still deal more damage. Im not saying to turn these champions into super weak basic tanks that can't deal any damage, I just want to see these champions balanced to fit more properly within the balance of power in League. Being extremely tanky and still doing more damage than an someone who built full damage is not right and needs to be corrected.

Type below your comments on this topic. No Flaming allowed what-so-ever. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, if you don't like it, state your reasoning why and leave it at that.

24 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

Being extremely tanky and still doing more damage than an someone who built full damage is not right and needs to be corrected.

I'm just going to say that this is not intended to support or deny your statement. I just want to supply a possible cause of this.

Damage dealt at the end of the game can be highly misleading and determined based on many in-game variables.

  • Who are they dealing damage to?
  • Are the champions being compared both single-target or AoE oriented?
  • How long did they stay in the fight?

The champions who build primarily to build damage (i.e. Assassins, Mages, ADCs) are often priority targets and very squishy which can result in them being taken out of a fight extremely quickly if they mess up (or the enemy team plays it correctly). As a result, their actual damage will be far lower then it could be since they didn't survive very long in the fight. In comparison, tankier champions (i.e. Garen, Darius, Mundo, Tahm Kench) are often secondary/tertiary targets and often not dealt with until later in the fight, leaving them alive for longer. Since they live longer, they can use multiple rotations of their abilities (some of which are AoE) to deal a significant amount of damage in fights over time.

Which champions someone primarily targets is another factor. ADCs and DPS mages are often hitting the enemy tanks/bruisers since they are typically the safest target to hit without overextended which will significantly reduce the damage they deal (due to resistances). Bruisers and tanks, on the other hand, are often trying to target the enemy carries (ADC, mages, assassins) which have little mitigation for damage taken.

The difference in damage dealt can be easily seen if you see champions fight other champions of the same type.

  • ADCs will deal a massive amount of damage to other ADCs, often killing them in 3 or 4 hits late-game.
  • Burst mages can easily kill one-another in a single rotation.
  • Tanks will often be slapping eachother with wet-noodles and will often be decided by whose teammates appear first.
  • Fighters will beat on one another for an extended period of time, albeit a shorter duration than tanks, until on of them eventually dies.
SymbolicFear2 votes

What about when a Darius goes into a 3v1 and he is able to kill all of them without getting his heal off more than 1 target at a time? These champions are outclassing all other champions within their role, making others obsolete or less effective. This should not happen.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

As I said, I wasn't aiming to support or argue against your post (the balance of Darius, Tahm Kench, and Garen).

I was aiming to shed some like on the statement I quoted and why tanks may appear to deal as much damage as squishy champions.

SymbolicFear1 votes

I know, I was just stating 1 reason as to why I say what I do. I do take the factors above into account and keep track of things needed such as who the "Darius" or "Garen" for example would be killing each time. So I can see your point, but I had already thought of that.

Unlucky Number72 votes

they trade cc for damage. if a tank deals no damage and has no cc there is no reason to damage him. you can even ignore him. if a tank has no damage and has good cc then it's still a good idea to avoid him.

PDE5 Inhibitors2 votes

Idk man, Tahm being able to eat people is pretty good CC.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Agreed. He has slow, stun, and the ability to remove a target from combat for a few seconds while dealing massive %health damage.

3tyson1 votes

Tahm has a slow a speedup a stun can remove someone from the battlefield

(Him eating ally is a gab closer)

I really dont see why you should play anny othet champ than tahm in every situation

if ur team loses go cinderhulk babysit them if ur team wins sated devourer and ful tank

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

Garen and Darius can be kited easily. Tahm isn't a problem.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Darius can't be kited unless the darius player is not very intelligent. He has a pull with a really long range along with a slow. Or he could just flash on top of you. Garen can Q to increase his movement speed and get out of any slow, and his ult can take someone from half health to no health instantly. Tahm is just overloaded with too high of stats.

GroundRuleDouble2 votes

Darius's pull is really short range compared to ranged champs. Flash is another story and should be played around using flash timers. Garen's Q gets him out of slows but it doesn't make him immune to slows. He can be slowed after using Q. And he has to be up close to use his ult.

Tahm does everything but damage, but that's what you want in a supportive top or jungler.

SymbolicFear2 votes

How does Tahm not deal damage? He deals massive damage, in fact, there are many threads with a very high upvote regarding nerfing Tahm's damage.

Also, Darius's pull has a long enough range to pull most marksman at their auto attack range. So its long enough.

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

Darius's pull is 550 range. About half the marksmen are at 550 or below and the other half are greater.

And I have yet to see a good Tahm.

SymbolicFear1 votes

You can't base all of your thoughts on just your personal views. I ask others my thoughts and read other posts before I post things like this page. Just because YOU haven't seen a decent Tahm doesn't mean Tahm isn't ridiculously strong as everyone else HAS seen a good Tahm and its stupid.

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

I also know the LoL community blows things WAY out of proportion, so you can only take the 1000 upvote threads for a grain of salt.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Also, I am not asking how to deal with them. I am saying they are stronger than other champions within their same role, by a large margin. They need to be balanced to fit within their roles and not outclass all others by default.

GroundRuleDouble3 votes

The balance is being able to be kited. Their damage is very unreliable. They have no reliable gap closers (blinks, dashes, etc). That's their balance.

SymbolicFear2 votes

They do have gap closers though, ms buff with silence and then a pull, being kited is not exactly a very good weakness when their lane opponents aren't able to do the kiting. That in itself is a really big issue. If put against a good Darius player in top lane with any normal top laner automatically makes you lose your lane, as you are not able to trade with Darius due to his bleed, nor are you able to fight due to his heal and bonus AD from his passive. Its not right for a champion to have kiting as the main weakness, in a role where kiting is rarely available. Basically, people are forced to pick Gnar or one of the few other options like him. The balance is not fair to those playing against them.

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

To Garen...his Q breaks out of slows but it doesn't prevent them. Wait to use cc until after he uses Q and he's worthless.

Any mage is good against Darius (when played smart). They can poke from a distance and avoid the bleed. Tryn is also very good against Darius. Anyone that can farm under tower is also very good against Darius. The key to beating Darius is to poke him so he can't get the 5 attacks off on you. if you do that, he can't do much. That's the Darius counter.

SymbolicFear1 votes

When I say lose lane, I also consider being forced to farm under your tower a loss. But I guess I am one of the few that think that... Still, not that many mages go top lane, Vlad being the main exception, and Tryn can only win against Darius post-6. Cause Tryn kinda beats 90% of all champions post-6.....

GroundRuleDouble1 votes

Farming under tower isn't a loss as long as you haven't died a ton and your tower is still standing. It's a real strategy against certain champs (only if you can cs well under tower). Tryn also has a good level 1 and 2 against Darius which can create an early snowball.

Mages used to be much more popular top lane (Ryze, Lissandra, etc). I play Brand against Darius top lane if I'm forced there. He's a hard counter to Darius.

SymbolicFear1 votes

Garen has a silence with a really long duration, and he also deals massive damage, while being hard to pin down due to his Q. Still, a tank shouldn't deal as much damage regardless.

BluePolarizer1 votes

You are simply not good enough. In pro games, alot of the time these zero CC tanks get rekt instantly.

In other MOBAs, most tanks also deal insane AOE damage, can lock down your entire team for 3+ seconds on a support budget or are tanky assassins in order to force your team to deal with them. Otherwise there's no reason to focus them, because the game assumes that you are smarter than a WOW bot with an aggro algorithm (although that's not necessarily the case for silver and below).

SymbolicFear1 votes

I know how to deal with them, and I do without much issue. The point is, they can do a lot more than other champions within their roles and seem to outclass them, which is not right. I am saying this due to observations through out my time playing since their reworks. Not because I lose to them all the time.

-_- how many times will I have to say this....

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