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Zilean has 1 ability that can deal damage.

TheKinglyKing··81 votes·5,269 views

Better make it one of the worst skill shots in the game

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96 Comments

Count Zubat29 votes

Zilean played by someone who mains him is just super strong. If you master throwing his bombs, you become a freaking god. The stun is just super strong and damage is still high, and let's not forget Zil has one basic ability to allow him to spam his bombs. It may be only one damaging spell, but my god, is it strong when you know how to use it.

Troll for Trump3 votes

So it's a shittier version of Brand, who just needs to land Q for a 2s Stun. Brand's passive allows good sustainable damage, Rylais gives cc, and his W is better. Zil can boast about his ult, but the uselessness of him is just ugh,

3TWarrior7 votes

well, brand doesn't have a long duration area denial and is a pure mage

zilean can revive a carry or tank or himself and a large speed boost

with decent cooldown reduction and AP, at late game, his damage becomes pretty monstrous and it's annoying early game. He's no brand, but he's about the only mage that can run up to the opponents, wave hi with his bombs and get away without a scratch

Troll for Trump3 votes

Well Brand's ult either works out like a paraaoe fear or it obliterates their team so they have no hp left. Zilean is nothing on his own

And most longrange mages can do that. Or leblanc/ ahri, which are mageassassins,

Biffolo1 votes

You know. It's almost like he's a support, he's not supposed to be anything on his own.

Troll for Trump1 votes

You know that might've been true in the past... oh wait. It wasn't Alistarcould tank, peel, and his W+Q had a ton of utility. He could be take all the cc and shake it off with his ult, and just tank very well, knocking everyone up and taking 75% reduced damage.

prenerfsona was a faceroller, but her ult was much more impactful than zil's. Her laning phase is about as strong, most of the time just stronger.

Prenerf soraka. Oh god.

And right now:

Thresh, UTILITY EVERYWHERE Blitz: Changes fights; pull the squishies, knock em up, and hard cc them to death so they can't react. Has a really powerful laning prescence. leona: Tanky, Aoe Ult, lot of cc, strong engage, can peel Braum: see above, but braum does more dmg Tahm Kench. The guy is being popularized due to LCS playing, so I'll run him down. Ton's of utility, good tankiness, actually does dmg and can 1v1 lategame(chain cc with q and w), w does percent of max hp dmg, so it's good against anything, he brings cc, He brings mobility with his ult, he can protect allies with w, or engage with tanks via R/W. He's ok immobile. When he swallows an ally he's bout as fast as Zil with Zil's selfcast W, except TK can carry himself and another target. His laning phase isn't very strong either.

Biffolo1 votes

And none of them have that guardians angel ultimate at level 6. Zileans ultimate is honestly insane, so the rest of his kit needs to take hits as a result.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

People always forget that ability has like no cd and has a 1.5 ratio attached to it (or something like that) and also has an absurd slow and/or speed up that is point and click. Anything that doesn't do damage is completely overlooked on these boards. Wards? How much damage they do?

Ratbert1 votes

"no cd" this is after the rework.

The "absurd" slow/speed up is really trivial when you realize it's gimped by the soft caps and dashes beat it. If it was really strong, zil would have already been pick or ban when he could apply it permanently with enough cdr.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

It is a better wither against some champs on an infinitely shorter cd. Play zilean vs a kallista and watch as her hops literally don't move her anywhere for like 7 seconds total. Also if you slow anyone without a gap closer they will die from your team. Honestly he's a pretty good pick against veigar since you can deny him any sort of kills with R and can shove him under tower effectively and veigar can't do anything if you catch him out with a slow+stun which isn't hard when he's slowed for 90%.

Biffolo1 votes

Exactly. He's a threat primarily from all his other tools, his damage ability should take a back seat. That slow and speed up can be excellent, and once again. A god damned guardians angel at level 6. That has an ap scaling.

BlkGolem2 votes

2 things.

  1. Brand has to land a spell before hitting q. Yes, his e/ult are both target abilities and w isn't too hard to hit, Brands generally want to land w after stun, and don't want to just use ult for it so they use e. E is a target ability but there are 2 stipulations: being rather close, (or having used spells earlier and stunning before the burn wears off, but he generally blows all at once and has distinct combos) and also having nothing between him and the target. So brand stun is harder than just hitting q.
  2. This is a rather incorrect comparison of champs' kits and what they're supposed to do. Brand is a burst mage who also has great potential in teamfights, with aoe and burn damage he finds a way to be relevant in the right circumstances. Zilean is not that at all.
Troll for Trump2 votes

  1. It's not hard to get close unless you are frontlining as a tank for some reason. And more often or not the enemies will come to you. When it comes to disabling a target, or when it's too dangerous to go yolo, you do W ->Q -> ignite - > E ->R If they are actually peeling, R->E->Q->W

  2. They are different, but said guy is saying Zilean is one of the few mages who can go in, poke and then come out safe. That is not true, as there are a good multitude of mages who can do that. Zilean is just way worse than support brand. The only reason you would want zil over him is if the enemy team is focused on locking down your adc, which you can just fix with Mikael's Crucible, the ADC having GA/Banshees, or the ADC having merc scept.

"Zilean played by someone who mains him is just super strong. If you master throwing his bombs, you become a freaking god."

That is a common strawman applying to every champ in this game,

" Zil has one basic ability to allow him to spam his bombs. It may be only one damaging spell, but my god, is it strong when you know how to use it." A lot of things can spam. If you know how to cass you can kill anything in a few seconds with a good ol' twin fang faceroll. Karthus teamfighting is just yoloing in, doing as much damage as you can, dying, then wipeout everything while your team sweeps.

BlkGolem1 votes

True, i'm just thinking about when I play brand (don't see him much otherwise) and I just think than when I want to stun someone I almost invariably go eqw. But if you position well, then yes usually it's easy to get a stun off, I was just saying that on Brand it's a lot more complex than landing q alone.

2nd, also true, but i'd never go "support" brand.

3rd, this is exactly how I play Karthus, because people never face him and have no idea how to fight him. some do, but more often the ali knocks me into their team because I'm the "squishy" immobile mid that they should focus, right? But yeah on Karth you don't care about dying, just killing everything and then when you're on top of their carries, it doesn't matter how fast you die =D

Troll for Trump1 votes

Plays karth Thresh pulls you in "OH GOD YES" TRIPLE KILL

but yeah, positioning on brand is really important.

Keyoshi1 votes

Why are you even comparing the 2? How can you compare 2 completely different styled champions.

Troll for Trump1 votes

The same way that everyone on the boards likes to compare x and y.

Keyoshi1 votes

Compare the one's that are similar, not completely different. The fact you used those 2 makes any argument you have invalid to anything you have to say.

Ackelope1 votes

"The fact you used those 2 makes any argument you have invalid to anything you have to say" Excuuuuuuuuse me? Just because someone may have said or done stuff in the past doesn't mean they're still very much capable of coming up with valid ideas and thoughts.

Troll for Trump1 votes

They are both squishy mage supports who are supposed to do something for their own. They are not medics, they are not tanks, they are not utilitytanks. They are not completely different. Idk where you draw that. I mean, anyone whose played this game for at least a season should know that stuff,

Keyoshi1 votes

Brand is a mage, not a support. People just play him as support because they know hes strong. Thats like calling annie a support because she was played as one. People play ziliean because of his utility not because of his damage, People play brand because he has damage and no utility. It was a bad comparison.

Borbland1 votes

Yeah, a good Zilean will always have he's speed boost on, will always have 600 ms randowly throwing bombs in all directions and spam his laugh.

Gigahappytown14 votes

Um because not like zilean has a 2k health revive to anyone on his team with a 36 second cooldown Not like he has a spammable 99% speed boost Not like he has the best anti-melee ability a support could offer.

KONO RUBICK DA2 votes

{quoted}

Um because not like zilean has a 2k health revive to anyone on his team with a 36 second cooldown Not like he has a spammable 99% speed boost Not like he has the best anti-melee ability a support could offer.

36 seconds cooldown? what did i miss?

Enosetc4 votes

{quoted}

36 seconds cooldown? what did i miss?

40% cdr puts it at a 36 second cooldown at max rank

IcyPepper2 votes

Generally you want to note the original cooldown, or at least the range :V

I don't think anyone cares since we're talking supports, who are likely to get max cdr. Carry on, ignore me I guess.

Saianna10 votes

OP talks about bombs. Everyone else talks about bombs, buffs and ultimate.

???

khorney9 votes

I get it it's harder to land yet it's one of the strongest basic spells in the gam3 and you can double cast it.

RedCyclone7 votes

I'm willing to bet that on average Annie hits more AoE tibbers what hit more then 2 people, then Zilean bombs stunning 2 people an that's an ult

BastionKross4 votes

This. Those bombs are so unreliable in what they stick to it's like rolling dice every time you throw one. If there's any other unit (ally, enemy, or neutral) that's even close to your target, you're relying more on luck than skill.

When I see an Annie with her stun up past level 5, I'm always cautious not to group up too much. When I see a Zilean, I'm not scared at all since very rarely does one actually pull off a successful AoE stun.

xFrostKnightx2 votes

On top of that, you can cleanse the bomb (Support item or sash) and deny the stun,

Can't cleanse 5 people from an Annie stun. But you can walk out of range, Clense or delete the zilean.

The stun was a weak excuse to not rework Zilean, instead they Nerf his ult to compensate for the "possible" chance to stun. Two bombs, to stun, you'll be lucky to get 2 on the same target in a fight.

Zilean is not a viable support above Silver. Above this elo, people know to back out of a team fight if they've been bombed or flash the second one.

Compared to an Annie who is viable above silver or even brand due to how much more (garnteed) CC and damage they can to.

Summary: He is still a walking useless GA,

Celeste Benal2 votes

All she has to do is press R once. It is far easier so yes, I'm sure she does.

TheKinglyKing6 votes

Yes it can be a really good AoE stun if it can hit, but the amount of times I throw a bomb and it lands directly on top of an enemy only to tether off instead onto a minion and the enemy just walks away is just ridiculous.

Celeste Benal4 votes

That is literally impossible. His bombs are coded to prefer champs over minions.

Orbv2 votes

I agree that shouldn't be happening. But I think the worst is the overlapping allies thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk2B9NCVIDw&t=20m9s

It's actually about 70% accurate to say that if two teammates group up and you toss it in the same spot, it USUALLY will attach one to each. The bombs should prioritize champions based on whether they have a bomb on them or not, THAT would help so much.

Renascent1 votes

From the Wikipedia - - - - Additional Information:

If the bomb lands directly on top of multiple units, it has the following priority system for whom to stick to: Units already carrying a bomb. Enemy champions. Allied champions. Enemy minions. Allied minions.

Orbv1 votes

I know that's what it is "SUPPOSED" to do. But that's NOT what it does. Watch any....any diamond/master zilean streams/videos on youtube. The chances of it hitting the same person is much lower than not where there are overlapping models.

Ser Garland1 votes

{quoted}

Yes it can be a really good AoE stun if it can hit, but the amount of times I throw a bomb and it lands directly on top of an enemy only to tether off instead onto a minion and the enemy just walks away is just ridiculous.

He also has insane CDR reset button and a speed slow.

TheKinglyKing4 votes

I really like Zil, and honestly I would just like his Q to be a bit more reliable overall. If I throw it and it lands directly on top of an enemy champ fuck the small charge time make it stick I deserve that much. Maybe if his passive wasn't the worst in the game and something worthwhile it wouldnt be such a big deal but thats not a world we live in.

Pluie Battante1 votes

[deleted]

alfavhunter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pluie Battante,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4jBqEhGR,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-10-10T15:34:02.989+0000)

I guess a passive change could help, although doesn't he give bonus exp for being around him, to be honest I could see him and Lucian being a good combo

The bonus EXP is very minimal, and it's not really noticeable after lvl 2 (which you get 1 minion earlier)

1000angrybees1 votes

An ability with good base damage and a high AP ratio should not be a simple skillshot.

Koechophe1 votes

Veigar Need I say more?

Okay, I will. Annie Leblanc

1000angrybees2 votes

Okay, these comparisons aren't really proving anything? I have varying opinions on various champs, and I didn't have a favorable or unfavorable position on them in the first place- the point was that skillshots should be skillful, you should be rewarded for landing them. I think that Zilean's skillshot REQUIRES you to learn how to use it effectively. That said, I'll still reply to this:

I don't like veigars point and click huge AP Damage bullshit. I think it's incredibly stupid.

Annie... I really don't know. I like her, but I'm on the fence to whether shes fair or not.

Fuck leblanc. Although I'd love to see her get a visual/gameplay update, because she could be so much more than what she is right now (shitty thematics, bad visuals, stupid to fight against)

kaltenashes1 votes

so does soraka. zilean's bomb i can dodge but soraka's q....holy fk

Demented Gag2 votes

Soraka's E deals damage at the end of duration.

BottleCapster1 votes

and on arrival. Soraka's Equinox has two damage portions.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

But that's recent, isn't it? It used to not proc rylai on arrival

Orbv1 votes

Soraka's Equinox hasn't changed in functionality since she was reworked. Rylai's would proc before, but you couldn't tell mostly because after getting hit you were still in that black circle.

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