The Spellthief change was a solid start, but we need more

chipndip1··1 votes·447 views

We need more viable ap options for the support role. Changing the spellthief line the way Riot did was a good start, though. By understanding the item, what mid laners want from it when they poach it, and by coming up with a way to keep mid laners from poaching it efficiently, Riot was able to give FQC 60 ap and EotW 35 ap without it magically going mid again (because it was the 150% mana regen on top of the insanely powerful ghosts people took it mid for for the thousandth time). I mean, it took like 1.5 years, but it's finally over with.

Riot needs to make more ap support items with this line of thinking. Decent ap stats with activation requirements on passives/actives that just aren't enticing to mid laners, if not just blatantly support-designated passives or actives. With some more of that and a bit of nerfing Redemption/Locket, we may see some actually decent item diversity in the support role.

15 Comments

LostFr0st1 votes

If mids want to poach it they almost need to miss cs due to the new cd mechanic on minion deaths.

chipndip11 votes

This is what I used to say for the longest before I got tired of posting on it. There are ways to make mid laners not want ap support items if you actually try. Just tie the power of those items to things they don't want to do.

LostFr0st1 votes

That's how the new one works though. The more you cs, the higher the cd. The old one had a static cd that would punish clearing one minion accidentally botlane while allowing mids to clear the whole wave with the same cd. New one is cd x #of minions killed.

chipndip11 votes

I know...that's the point. If Riot tries, they can make ap support items that don't appeal to mid laners through a variety of ways, from actives/passives that don't apply to gates that make them better for supports.

The Last Ballad1 votes

Im surprised that they haven't tried linking some of the more powerful support items to the sightstone. Its one thing to use one slot for some cheap stats, but having to use up two and effectively increase the price for non-supports by 800? It wouldn't seem to be as enticing.

LostFr0st1 votes

LeeSin Yeah LeeSin not LeeSin sure LeeSin why LeeSin they LeeSin don't LeeSin link LeeSin more LeeSin to LeeSin sightstone LeeSin.

Can't think of anyone who would abuse it >.>

The Last Ballad1 votes

Because he gets a lot of use out of item 3092 item 3069 item 3401 item 3174 item 3107 item 3190 right?(This is kind of a question)

And really, most of the time support items that have been abused, are abused by either the entire team ( (⚆_⚆)item 3107) or by mid laners( (⚆-⚆)item 3174 item 3092), resulting in nerfs to make it less desirable.(I only say most because I can't think of any, but there might be one I'm not thinking of. Also not counting non-botlane supports like Ivern as part of the abusers)

And doesn't Lee Sin get item 3711 anyway(I don't play him or ever considered it, so I don't know)?

LostFr0st1 votes

Well, he might not be able to use most of those, but he would get mileage out of item 3190 item 3109

item 3190 item 2049 was mandatory on Jg for a while (was tied to the user's lvl). Don't want that again though; was super sad looking.

I think you covered it with the poached support items. (besides the ones that were removed from the game ovc.) Can't wait 'till they chop that tree Ivern down to size next patch.

Yeah, Lee mostly gets item 3711 , but I've seen Lees eye item 3715 with good results. Sightstone buffs might be the tipping point.

LostFr0st1 votes

idk if we need more tbh. Then the builds will be more locked since the efficiency will be way up.

chipndip11 votes

How would builds be MORE locked by having MORE options?

Or rather, more VIABLE options?

LostFr0st1 votes

You wouldn't get "more options," you'd just get more options locked behind a non-cs passive. Support itemization isn't suffering; there's a ton of options with extremely useful stats. item 3504 item 3060 item 3190 item 3174 item 3222 item 3109 item 3800 item 3107 item 3050 .

chipndip11 votes

You don't have to use the same damn mechanic as the Spellthief line if you knew about basic reading and comprehension.

{quoted}

I know...that's the point. If Riot tries, they can make ap support items that don't appeal to mid laners through a variety of ways, from actives/passives that don't apply to gates that make them better for supports.

OBVIOUSLY implies that we're not trying to rinse and repeat the "no cs'ing" passive.

On top of that, you realize that you listed only 3 items with ANY ap on them, and 2 of them are hot garbage, right? This is about AP SUPPORT ITEMS.

LostFr0st1 votes

Pray tell, which mechanic would they use then? What separates supports from mids so well besides cs? Don't say ward sweeping either because mids get sweeper.

In addition, what's wrong with the normal AP items? item 3152 item 3151 item 3285 item 3116 item 3102 item 3157

o wait, it doesn't matter because item 3190 / item 3107 | item 3174 | item 2301 | item 3117 the game is done already.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are options, whether people get to build them or not is separate. Having even more options won't change that.

chipndip11 votes

Normal ap items cost an arm and a leg to build + They don't have supportive properties. The answer to support itemization that includes ap shouldn't be "poach mid lane items". I thought we DIDN'T like poaching items?

As for things to keep mid laners off of them, it's easy. Tie their effects to working off of others to gain a benefit, make their natural ap lower, tie their effects to things mid laners don't necessarily like in general...shit like that. If you actually try there's a way.

LostFr0st1 votes

Those items aren't "poached"; all but item 3151 item 3285 are utility items with some AP.

item 3152 To gapclose item 3116 For pick potential item 3102 To not get picked item 3157 For when you need a pocket of time after your teamfight role.

They've been built on supports for a long time.

As for things to keep mid laners off of them, it's easy. Tie their effects to working off of others to gain a benefit, make their natural ap lower, tie their effects to things mid laners don't necessarily like in general...shit like that. If you actually try there's a way.

You mean like the shield/heal scaling they already gave to a bunch of the support items?

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