You guys don't realize that it's the insane gold gen on coin that's making STE a shit item?
You guys don't realize that the overabundance of cdr was one of the major points that made Athene's bad before now?
I mean...it's whatever. We'll keep abusing coin until you get it right.
AirKingNeo10 votesMore like a powercreep buff instead of nerfing the coin line (and ardent censer).
chipndip18 votes...what does this do to make ANYONE want this over coin unless you're specifically Zyra or Brand?
My Waifu Vanilla4 votesThose are the people the Spelltheif's line is catered to anyway. The STE line is made to help mages that are not traditionally supports actually make money down bot lane and all of which tend to not actually cap on CDR since they go for Liandry's+Rylai's 95% of the time.
Doctor Jarvis9 votes
???????
Lasslow1 votesPersonally, I'm fine with support champions having choices, though spelltheifs definitely needs a buff, or just nerf coin mana regen more and make it scale less.
It Hertz When IP1 votesSTE line was originally designed for ANY support that was capable of safely and regularly poking the enemy; Nami, Sona, Morgana, Soraka, Zyra, Vel'koz.... lot of traditional enchanters and mages come to mind. Coin was a crutch line that was inferior in gold income, basically only good on a handful of supports that wanted the health regen, preferred the AoE speedboost active (Janna) or for whatever reason couldn't reliably poke. I think Thresh players that sucked at proccing Relic Shield charges also got it.
Only reason those peeps aren't taking STE anymore is that Coin's just stupidly broken at the moment.
ChaoticPinecone2 votesOr a heavy shielding support, like Janna/Karma/Lulu/Sona. By taking the 5% CDR from masteries, youre looking at capping 45% CDR with 3900 gold (Ionions, Eye of Watchers, Forbidden Idol).
Currently, maxing out at 45% CDR requires 5900-6200 gold (Ionions, Eye of Watchers, Ardent or Redemption, Forbidden Idol). But in most situations, it takes a lot longer - when I play a shielding support, I go Eye of Watchers+Ionians+Adrent Censor (5400 gold), sit at 35% CDR until I buy a locket (7600 gold) then buy the Forbidden Idol for the 45% CDR (8400 gold).
The difference between hitting 45% CDR with 8400 gold and 3900 gold is pretty big.
CasterGilgamesh8 votesinstead of giving us cdr why cant they just give us more ap or even just replace the mana regen which is redundent with coin existing and give us flat mana [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Steelflame16 votesBecause the CDR is actually going to be more valuable than more AP come pre-season anyway, which is only 2 months away.
the 10% CDR will be worth 20 AP once you start overcapping. Hell, I can see my core support enchanter build hitting something like 60-70% CDR now because it won't be bad to hit that much CDR, because it'll just convert anyway into AP.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesthats only if you take the key stone though im not 100% sure how many we can have but key mastery space is even more important when you have a key stone rune that gives you a ton of cdr strictly for an ult and many other unknown runes with equal power (depending on the champion synergy)
Steelflame4 votesOvercharge isn't a keystone. Its just a major IIRC. Maybe even a minor. So it can be one of your secondary trees (Sorcery, IIRC) while your primary tree can be another one.
What you are thinking of is Ultimore. Again, not a keystone.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesi dont know enough about the new runes
notice me Sin pi1 votesinstead of giving us cdr why cant they just give us more ap or even just replace the mana regen which is redundent with coin existing and give us flat mana [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Riot had stated that flat mana is a stat they would like to see on mages rather than supports. And if it were to gain more AP, then most midlaners would probably opt for 
over 
; they both provide slows, except one of them is much better at picking out enemies, and they would both provide about the same of AP (currently it's 60 vs 70. Buff the 60 and they would be the same)
CasterGilgamesh1 votes 
For mage supports yet coin gives better mana regen then any of the frost queens
Its All Skillzz4 votesas someone who rushes this on ap ezreal i approve of this buff and looking foward to my extra cdr :D i hope they buff the gold gen to so i can abuse it even harder.
chipndip11 votesI like seeing you on the boards but
Its All Skillzz6 votesI like seeing you on the boards but
<3
Slows you from 2 screens away flash E in an 1 shots you with E gunblade active lichbane proc tlord loool. Also thanks to FQC gold gen you are always around 900g ahead of your laner by the 18 min mark and prob around 1600g ahead by 30 min mark.
iamthegoatofwar1 votesIs this accounting for if you hit them or not?
Bladerunner77773 votesEvery time Riot thinks they're helping support by overloading every single one of their items with Mana/Health Regen and CDR, a part of me dies a little
Erockandroll2 votesSomehow, I doubt that those changes will last. (At the very least, won't survive preseason) Especially with Eye, simply because your go from 0 to 20% CDR in an instant. (on what would probably be your first item.)
Riot's probably trying to nudge it into viability. (or a Viable niche for CDR Hungry poke supports) In hopes that we don't see coin every game at worlds.
Sukishoo2 votesThese buffs are for WORLDS, as in PRO PLAY. Not anyone else. They don't really if it has any effect on us.
La Bello2 votesI actually find CDR as WHOLE a stat too easy to overboard with on support
and 
already gives like 40% CDR. Hate that you lose gold effecient on any CDR related purchases after that.If its not addressed here then at least we can make use out of the overcharger rune coming up :/
ProfDrDeath1 votesConsidering that, after these four items, you have space for 
and 
upgrade...
La Bello1 votesgross..
you actually get that wimpy teamplayer stuff? Usually I do the vision item upgrade If I really need to and then I get something more situational like 
depending on who my carry is and who Im playing.
Ever seen a and 
in action with Zeke's,Ardents buff and Runaans? its the stuff of nightmares
Standgrounding1 votesreplace with 
REAL SHIT.
DemiluniS1 votesThe champions who's intended path is fqc aren't building those items. You getting it mostly on zyra and brand, and they getting rylai and liandry after their gold generating item
Daedric Etwahl1 votesSona is another support that took Spellthief's a lot of the time before, and Ardent and Athene's are pretty much core on her, and she overcaps on CDR incredibly easily already, so as a Sona player this change feels pretty much worthless to me, as it doesnt help Edge/Frostfang stand up to the crazy gold gen AND mana regen of the Coin line.
I've honestly just switched back over to Spellthief's just as personal preference at this point.
GrReaper961 votesWelp time to go over the max cdr cap again
Steelflame1 votesI think this is a buff more in line with Pre-season, or for true mage supports who often won't get the CDR cap actually (Zyra, Brand, perhaps Morg).
With the new overcharger mastery coming out, that extra early CDR will be very nice, because it will just covert into AP at a decent ratio once you are overcapping.
RankOneUganda1 voteslol. power creep. Coin gives so much gold that everyone buys it in high elo. trust me. the ap items are not weak. the movement speed buff makes chasing an ap support really damn hard. its a mini ghost.
they just need to nerf coin. reduce orbs droprate by 30%.
BIG DADDY BARD1 votesWhen playing against a coin support botlane, I find that they never really are far ahead in gold, but what does bother me is how easy it is to get gold off that item. However spell theifs quest reward is MUCH better then coins, atleast in my opinion.
chipndip12 votesI'd rather the coin. Coin helps everyone else dodge skill shots. STE only helps you. As a support, I'm concerned for everyone else.
BIG DADDY BARD1 votesFqc slows enemies so your team can run away/ chase easier?
flibitydoo1 votesathene's kinda got worse with the CDR reduction though
for several weeks before the change you saw 
and 
building athenes.
then the cdr got reduced from 20%->10%.
now no one builds the item and also both champions have disappeared from play.
also this item also I never see being built ever by anyone. Like it was sort of unpopular right before the rework, but now it's just straight up "why would you ever buy this item over knight's vow or locket or righteous glory or frozen heart or stoneplate or iceborn gauntlet or any actual tank item.
as much as every support player (including myself) wanted that cdr reduction, it actually only served to ruin 2 champs and still remain complete garbage. Personally I'd rather they just get rid of athenes as a support option. turn it into a ap/mana/cdr for midlane mages as alternative to morello's; as some sort of healing sustain option for utility mages (which would make it countered by grevious wounds on morellos, but that might make an interesting lane matchup vs stats dynamic)
DarkRitual1 votesI buy zeke's on engage-heavy champs as support. 
It's got a good buildpath as well.
chipndip14 votesAthene's got better. Blatantly.
Those specific champions got nerfed, though. Thus, there's no avid Athene's users that are actually meta in pro play, and there's only Sona in solo queue.
Robert Smith2 votes Very good on 
because of his low cd ult
Athenes Lulu1 votesSo back to the tank meta botlane we go?
I know Riot is very close to going a full cycle of meta, but let's not make that happen.
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4ghyct8R,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-09-02T07:03:46.255+0000)
So back to the tank meta botlane we go?
Hopefully not the season 5 version where Leona was hyper-hip-thrusting her way into every pair of cheeks in sight, since she's pretty bad. Worlds will probably be heavy on the Taric/Braum/Kench sort of stuff, but solo queue is gonna probs gonna be Janna/Janna/Janna/Sona/Janna/Soraka/Janna like it has been.
TyroneWatermelon1 votesI don't get it, doesn't a typical support build consists of 50% cdr%?
ProfDrDeath1 votesNot really, no.
Four Support items, Red Sightstone or Locket and Non-CdR boots are exactly 40% CdR.
Karn Bishop1 votesI could almost swear i read a rioter post not 1 week ago stating the game has too much available CDR as it is, so um wth.
Awoof1 votesYou guys don't realize that it's the insane gold gen on coin that's making STE a shit item?
This is what really baffles me. If they have some secret plan like "make the others more slot-efficient as a trade off, and hope we can balance other items (cough censer) out to not be as necessary to rush" (and some blahblah it's worlds right now) then they really should come out with that, because at this point they just seem oblivious as to why people even use it.
Salp1 votesIt seems like a change for pro play. If you look at the pick rates for LCK and NA/EU LCS playoffs you can see that tanky hard engage supports (
) are picked WAY more often than the Janna's and Soraka's you see in soloque. Hard engage has traditionally been the answer to sustain, and it makes sense that pro's would favor supports with strong map presence and the ability to snowball. The inability to create and extend leads is still a problem for shield/heal supports. Yes they are useful and can impact the game, but they can't create kills or push towers very well.
Now if imagine that the meta is instead balanced around hard engage and go back to the traditional support triangle you would want to pick something with poke. Because it's a change for pro-play however, it makes more sense to buff the first item that poke supports complete since pro supports don't build many items, especially on champions like Zyra. 20% CDR is much more useful if it's the only item you're building other than boots and if you just want more ults/roots.
At least that's my speculation. Poke supports really need preseason-scale changes to their items in my opinion. Not really something you can fix before worlds.
Poske1 votesShshhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Brand mid with 
might be back
Last time he was viable mid was when Claim was stronger He ll require some mana regen runes though
