What is wrong with APC Items?

Chromatic Eagle·Jan 4, 2015·1 votes·453 views

Though not as controversial as ADC, some of the biggest complaints have been about spell penetration and mana regeneration. I've also read a discussion about Deathfire's Grasp. Anything else I've missed?

5 Comments

Kowe The EwokJan 4, 20154 votes

Athene's was heavily nerfed up to a point where champions like Orianna or Anivia (Swain... Others..) can invest 5k gold in mana, yet still run out of it during a teamfight.

Given that there have been released a lot of energy users and ressourless champions - WITHOUT downsides for their free abilities - mana suddenly starts feeling like a punishement for many champions.

If anything, they needed a buff to keep up with the ressourceless champions. Instead Riot decided not only to keep Athene's in this horrible state, but also nerfed the hell out of Morellonomnicom (on PBE), which had become more popular due to the gutting of Athene's.

EDIT: Riot Phreak also stated that these champions should "simply" build an additional tear (720) to compensate for the nerfs. (This is not exactly how phrased it, but how it came accross for many people.) However, his statement felt like a punch in the face for those champions. Since - as mentioned above - mana does not benefit in-fight power at all. Suddenly champions who already were put in a worse (relative) state should deal with it, loosing not only an item slot, but also being forced to sacrifice 720 gold : (speaking in terms of AD casters or assassins) 2x item 1036 to get to their pre 4.20 state - gaining absolutely nothing in return. What bafflesy the community is Riot's utter disregard of what sacrificing 720 gold means, especially early in lane (building a tear post 15 minutes into teh game is simply not viable). The community, including me, simply don't understand why exacly these mana heavy champions were nerfed. Well, why any mage (except maybe Syndra or Ahri) were nerfed like that.

Does Riot consider Swain so significantly better than Akali Zed Gnar RekSai that this step was necessary? Or Anivia ? What did they do to deserve these nerfs?

TehNACHOJan 4, 20153 votes

APC items are way too easy to use.

...so that sounds weird out loud, let's try that again.

You know how Season 4's Jungle Items were designed to encompass as many champions as possible with only a single item, and then as we move to Season 5, this change to encompassing many different kinds of of champions through multiple different Jungle item combinations? Think of our APC items now as Season 4's jungle items, flawed in that too many champions can use them.

Think of it like this, let's say there was only one Jungle item in the game. Just flat out, that's the only help you're getting in the Jungle. Now, it could be designed to allow virtually every champion to Jungle, but the fact of the matter is, especially in higher up play, one or two champions especially abuse that single item the best and said one or two champions are the only ones that are going to get played.

Similar thing can be said about our AP items then. Currently, Deathcap, Void Staff, and many other items can be used by literally every AP Midlaner in the game. Naturally though, because of how competitive or higher level play constantly goes after what champions can take advantage of certain items the best, that means only an extremely limited number of champions best abuse Deathcap and Void Staff and only that extremely limited few can take advantage of it.

That's one perspective on the matter. Others, especially more item specific arguments, also exist. Deathfire Grasp for example has no moment of weakness, as it's extremely high AP, CDR, and no drawbacks on using the active round out the item far too well. There is a host of discussion, especially lately, about how messed up Percentage Penetration is at the moment. Speaking of large amounts of discussion, some of the more recent mana controversies have sprouted up surrounding Morellonomicon, Athene's, and in general base stats.

FalconPawwwwnchJan 4, 20152 votes

AP champs complaining because their items don't remove weaknesses anymore

Athene's and other items were never supposed to remove mana issues completely, that'd be like an item making Udyr ranged

AtheosisXJan 4, 20154 votes

People only complain about mana regen issues because of all the mid laners who don't have to worry about mana at all.

Kowe The EwokJan 4, 20151 votes

Let's make this simple. (Both are level 9)

Zed's Q has 6 s CD. It costs 55 Energy. Zed gains 50 energy every 5s due to regeneration. PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 (+ 100% bonus AD) SECONDARY DAMAGE: 45 / 69 / 93 / 117 / 141 (+ 60% bonus AD) MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 120 / 184 / 248 / 312 / 376 (+160% Bonus AD) / (185% Bonus AD with leveled W)

Anivia's Q costs 120 mana, has 8s CD. Anivia has 703 max mana. She gains 11.4 mana every 5 seconds. MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+ 50% AP) MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 120 / 180 / 240 / 300 / 360 (+ 100% AP)

(While Anivia has a stun, thus might not be the best example she is one suffering the most from the nerf. She's also among the champions which are quoted for clearing waves to well)

Athene's gets nerfed because mages push to consistently with 2700 ( item 3174 )+2300 (PBE item 3165 )= 5000 g. Meanwhile AD-Casters / Assassins can cast near infitely without any investment in stats other damage...