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Here's an idea, maybe maining a champ/role means you know more about that topic then less?

The Sword Saint··14 votes·1,727 views

This essay is listed in my "Master List of Essay Threads" under the title "On Dismissing Champion A Main's Opinion"

I see it a lot where people instantly try and discredit and dismiss anything that someone has to say if that someone has a lot of experience with the topic at hand.

This makes no sense.

Lets compare this to real life and see what happens:

G&B

angry person - "x champion has no counterplay and is a faceroll easy champ for noobs" champ x main - "Actually x champion has these pros and these cons, have you tri-" angry person - "stfu, your just an x champion abuser defending your freelo"

Real Life

angry person - "being a teacher is just for people who couldn't make it in the real world, anyone can read out of a text book" teacher - "actually I had to go pretty far in college just to get the qualifications to teach, and the job itself is very stressful, has long hours, and doesn't pay well. Furth-" angry person - "stfu, you're just defending your cushy state sponsored union job so you don't have to go out and do real work"

See that? That's what people who dismiss people in the basis that they have actual experience sound like. They sound like that dick who is dismissing a teachers opinion on the job requirements of being a teacher. Swap teacher with lawer or doctor or whatever and it's just as asinine.

You shouldn't dismiss out of hand the knowledge and experience of people who have invested a relatively significant amount of time into a champion or role compared to you, just as you shouldn't dismiss out of hand the knowledge and experience of people who have different careers - especially on the topic that they are dedicated to.

For example, if someone who is diamond and has played 1000 post charm amp games as ahri makes a post or a thread about her balance state state, or her matchups, or her pros and cons, you should be actually listening to them MORE than some random asshole. You definitely shouldn't ignore them completely on the basis that they're 'a filthy ahri main defending their freelo' or whatever shitty reason you give just because you hate ahri and want her to be nerfed so you never see her again.

The same goes for any other champion or role main. It seems like it should be obvious but for some reason its not on these boards.

TLDR: Champ/role mains know more about that champ/role then non mains. Listen to what they have to say, don't just dismiss them because they are 'tainted' by that champ or role you are frustrated with right now.

36 Comments

NemeBro15 votes

But they are a filthy Ahri role defending their freelo.

SaltyKracka7 votes

...Have you not considered that people are unlikely to listen to X mains because said mains are incredibly likely to be biased in favor of wanting that champion to be strong?

KraZii Poet2 votes

the whole point of op's post was saying that x mains are listing the pros and cons, while being ignored as people listen to "angry person", who is clearly in favor of the champ being op. if any of the two in op's argument is biased, its the angry person. in fact, to quote you, theyre "incredibly likely to be biased in favor of wanting that champion to be strong", not the other way around. the x main is trying to point out both strengths and weaknesses in their champ so they can be considered balanced, not agreeing with the idiotic person crying "op! op!"

SaltyKracka3 votes

I said "be strong", not "be seen as strong".

If a champion is seen as strong, it's more likely to see nerfs and less likely to see buffs. If a champion is not seen as strong, it is more likely to receive buffs and less likely to receive nerfs.

The fact that I had to unpack this for you is frankly baffling.

KraZii Poet1 votes

i've reread your first comment, and i think that you may have meant the people not listening are biased as to thinking the champion is strong, whereas i thought you meant the main was biased to thinking the champ was strong. either way, you shouldnt be baffled, because all of what i said was true. but if what you say here is true, then an x main would be trying to make their champion look weak, so it would be more likely to receive buffs. whereas, i'll again state that op said the x main was pointing out the pros and cons, not trying to sway the opinion to strong or weak, but rather balanced. the fact that i had to unpack this for you shows you didn't really pay much attention to what i said, because you really didnt offer much explanation as to why it was baffling to you, you just added irrelevant information. but by all means, be baffled rather than trying to talk it out.

SaltyKracka1 votes

I've updated the wording so it's clearer for you.

KraZii Poet2 votes

the wording is the same. nothing's changed. you're still avoiding actually responding which leads me to believe you're just a troll. have a nice day.

Akali is SO HOT6 votes

Because on this section of boards all of you guys are subjective as fuck and only care about getting your mains buffed. It doesn't matter that I've been playing Akali since season 3 because to this section of boards I apparently know nothing about her and you guys know every single nitty gritty detail and every time you make threads about her I absolutely cringe.

All of the mage mains are biased as fuck and don't even care what other people have to say just so long as they get their precious mage buffed. Just look at Lux. A champion in a decent spot but the idiots were convinced that she was weak because of how biased they were towards their favorite champion and low and behold she shoots up to the second highest winrate in the game.

It's not a problem with dismissing champion mains but rather with this section of boards having biased idiots that can't think objectively.

The Sword Saint2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4d0g3ThR,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-11-08T02:49:00.253+0000)

Because on this section of boards all of you guys are subjective as fuck and only care about getting your mains buffed. It doesn't matter that I've been playing Akali since season 3 because to this section of boards I apparently know nothing about her and you guys know every single nitty gritty detail and every time you make threads about her I absolutely cringe.

All of the mage mains are biased as fuck and don't even care what other people have to say just so long as they get their precious mage buffed. Just look at Lux. A champion in a decent spot but the idiots were convinced that she was weak because of how biased they were towards their favorite champion and low and behold she shoots up to the second highest winrate in the game.

It's not a problem with dismissing champion mains but rather with this section of boards having biased idiots that can't think objectively.

It goes beyond a healthy awareness of bias on these boards, people here honestly will reject without consideration any reasoning or experience experience you try to share on a champion if you've played that champion more than a handful of times. It's like a compulsive fear that someone with some actual firsthand knowledge might contribute to a discussion because it puts a circlejerk in danger if they aren't sealed inside an echo chamber.

The Sword Saint3 votes

"Oh this guy is a master tier riven main with 700 ranked riven wins, and he's saying that riven is currently in such a bad spot that he never plays her in ranked. Clearly this filthy riven main has no real knowledge of rivens current balance state, I'm going to dismiss him and listen to this silver teemo main instead who is saying that even if he bullies her for 6 levels a riven player can suddenly gain an ultimate and be able to all in teemo instead of just eating harass forever which clearly makes her op."

2000boxes2 votes

this is how i feel when i defend zed and lee sin!!!!!

KraZii Poet2 votes

when people call zed op and refuse to acknowledge item 3140 item 3157 Kayle Tryndamere TahmKench Sivir Malzahar

i'm not with those who cry over zed being in a bad spot, because imo he is quite viable, as long as you play him right, but he does give loads of counterplay options, if you're willing to think about it instead of spamming the all chat about how op zed is. you get crap for being a zed main, because he's "easy" when all the champs are bloody easy as long as you know how to use their combos right. their are some champs that are easier to use than others (looking at you MasterYi ), but every champ has some form of counter/outplay. the trick is to find it instead of flaming at rito or other players picking that champ. honestly got a bit off topic here, but yeah. i agree with what the op is saying. some people are too quick to be verbally abusive and just be overall toxic people. listen to someone who knows what theyre talking about, not the person that says, "op, gg ez, freelo champ"

HaIlMonitor2 votes

I mostly agree with you because I see targeted post to my main once in a while who is Rengar. Also though on the flip side I feel like I am blinded by how good my champion really is. I think at times mains think there champion is "perfect" or "weak". I think numbers mean a lot if a champion is highest picked/win/banned there is probably more then "Herpa Derpa I am a D3 xChampion main and they are not op",

The Sword Saint1 votes

I can see how it might be hard as a main of the champ in question to unbiasdly state whether your champ needs nerfs or not, however when it comes down to knowledge of the champs strengths and weaknesses and how to play against them - I'll always give the main the benefit of the doubt because that has nothing to do with numbers and everything to do with skill and experience.

Koldheartedjsp2 votes

um... well this is exactly how it works in the real world

ya know companies like monsanto and any chemicals/drugs that get approved by the FDA, the FDA does 0 research and relies on the research of the company making the chemical?

this is NOT a good thing

The Whamboozler2 votes

I agree with the bulk of your statement. Except as regards to Riven mains.

@#$% Riven mains.

karruck1 votes

hmmm..if we use x as the pick rate and y as the winrate and display that as a factual equasion....it means ....absolutely nothing about the champ,it however might if you factor in ease of play average lvl of the summoner who played it damage dealt totals and damage mitigated and or dodged then we can assess wether or not a champion is op..oh they dont have all that...then its an opinion ignore the ignorance and move on .my take on it

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

It's because you're the 7th.

oreosauce1 votes

I agree. I used to play a lot of Vayne, and it's completely ridiculous and annoying whenever I try to explain on a thread that there are many ways to counter her and I just kept getting bashed down, and called "an idiot" for not understanding that she's completely broken and should be deleted from the game, just because she's used a lot by the pros in China

The Sword Saint1 votes

They'd rather hear about vaynes strengths and weaknesses from literally anyone other than anyone who actually has experience as vayne for some reason.

SEKAI1 votes

This applies to most but not all.

Some champs' counterplay options are simply something that might as well not exist, such as "yeah he is only weaker late" or "yeah you have to pray his player is garbage". Then there are the cases of overtuned BS champs that are either too binary or outright have 0 weakness. These are the only cases where your idea would be wrong.

Other than that though, you would be correct.

Pinker 101 votes

*Than

4ManVotedAgainst1 votes

The problem here is that, although I am a Malphite-Main (also along with Galio & Kennen), I am a specific type of Malphite-Main, who mains Malphite as a Top-Lane and Support, but I still have no clue how to actually use him to full-effectiveness in the Mid-Lane nor in the Jungle, despite my hundreds & hundreds upon hundreds of matches with him. Sure, you can listen to me about certain things about Malphite, such as how it can often be effective to use him as a Hybrid instead of going purely Tank, and how using him as a Support should nearly always build Tank & get a Cinder-Hulk first before getting a Sight-Stone for purposes of winning Fights/Skirmishes (but that may be partly due to the fact that I use Scaling for Defensive-Runes), but don't even bother to praise any of my opinions on Mid-Lane or Jungle-Malphite. I have seen other people use Malphite effectively in those roles but I am personally much more effective using Malphite either Top-Lane or Support.

Mordepool1 votes

Prime example right here of main with in-depth knowledge who recognizes his own lack of "certain" knowledge. Rather listen to. This guy than some angry scrub

Silents4291 votes

Here's an idea, how about people just stop trying to understand balance just because they play a video game.

Because game experience and balance experience are not the same thing.

Then we can just skip this part.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

I've spent a lot of time trying to explain to people why Yasuo has the kit he does, but usually can't get past the "Double Crit WTF?!?! CertainlyT so retarded" circlejerk long enough to actually explain why a crit chance steroid is the only steroid that makes sense on Yasuo.

Fiveofswords1 votes

no...just because someone mains a champ doesnt mean they are the one to listen to. It actually can imply that their view on that champ is biased...some people get emotionally involved in some champ they 'main' for some crazy reason. Lots of people may have played AGAINST that champ and understand jsut fine what that champ is like. Either side could be right or wrong and what you listen to are reasons...and if a person maining a champ has such better experience then they should have access to reasons. But if they just say i main that champ and therefore x, that is not logic.

So...like...ive laned versus ahri a lot. Never played her. But im very aware of the fact that her skillshots are extremely easy to dodge. WHen i dont dodge them i was just being sloppy. So if some ahri main comes up with some scenario assuming that the skillshots are going to hit most of the time, that just makes me chuckle.

Lugg1 votes

There are several champion mains on these boards who don't know Jack about their champions. It's actually pretty amazing.

Wezz1 votes

Except I have been avidly playing anivia for 2 years and I think she's borderline OP

The Sword Saint1 votes

{quoted}

Except I have been avidly playing anivia for 2 years and I think she's borderline OP

And if you try to share your thoughts on anivia you better hide the fat that you play her alot, because people will instantly jump to dismiss you from any anivia related conversation on the grounds that you're 'too biased'.

Wezz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4d0g3ThR,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2015-11-08T02:55:43.657+0000)

And if you try to share your thoughts on anivia you better hide the fat that you play her alot, because people will instantly jump to dismiss you from any anivia related conversation on the grounds that you're 'too biased'.

I'd uderstand if you were like gold with riven though

If you're fucking master tier with riven I don't understand why you're saying she's shit unless you REALLY want to get to challanger

The Sword Saint1 votes

{quoted}

I'd uderstand if you were like gold with riven though

If you're fucking master tier with riven I don't understand why you're saying she's shit unless you REALLY want to get to challanger

You seem to be missing the point entirely. it doesn't matter if we are talking about riven or poppy or yorick or whoever. It is incredibly foolish and also illogical to dismiss someone purely because they actually might know what the fuck they are talking about.

Wezz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4d0g3ThR,comment-id=0010000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-08T03:38:18.922+0000)

You seem to be missing the point entirely. it doesn't matter if we are talking about riven or poppy or yorick or whoever. It is incredibly foolish and also illogical to dismiss someone purely because they actually might know what the fuck they are talking about.

I know that's not the point of this thread but I'm 90% sure you're using this to dismiss all complaints about riven toward you

The Sword Saint1 votes

{quoted}

I know that's not the point of this thread but I'm 90% sure you're using this to dismiss all complaints about riven toward you

I'll use it on anyone who tries to dismiss someone for daring to speak up while also having knowledge of the topic at hand.

The riven thing is irrelevant as she is not in fact a champion that I play often, mostly because she's the kind of champ you have to hard main for large periods of time to be consistent with and because she has shit matchups most of the time. I went out of my way to get a rank 5 mastery on her because I find her kit elegant and well designed, but she is not someone who I prefer to play. Whether she gets buffed or nerfed at any particular time doesn't matter to me as long as those changes are based on her actual balance state.

That doesn't mean I'm going to stand by and let ignorant morons spam uninformed hate about her or any other champion I have some experience with just because they personally don't like her design. It doesn't mean that I'm going to allow people to dismiss anything I have to say by calling me a riven main as if that would fucking matter at all even if it was true.

If you try and dismiss someone purely because they have experience with a champion instead of trying to argue with their actual points, you are not someone worth the time to talk to. The only value you have to offer is as an easy target for me to make a post like this against to help other people understand that your line of reasoning is completely worthless bullishit.

Wezz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4d0g3ThR,comment-id=001000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-08T04:35:46.121+0000)

The riven thing is irrelevant as she is not in fact a champion that I play often, mostly because she's the kind of champ you have to hard main for large periods of time to be consistent with and because she has shit matchups most of the time.

XD

Athenes Lulu1 votes

They're not necessarily right, but angry people refuse to listen to the other side of the fence, and that's THE problem. Don't forget they bring elo as a way to argue.

You can literally make an entire thread listing on why this should happen and blah blah blah with experience AND reason. But, if the topic, at all, doesn't even match what's popular opinion, your topic is completely disregarded on here. Who cares about the tone. Who cares if it's reasonable. If it's not popular opinion, get out.

Welcome to Gameplay and Balance.

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