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@rivn, "Animation canceling... ...an important part of League in general"

Mira Arya Enthe··29 votes·3,475 views

Animation cancelling is far from exclusive to Riven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi4AlSwEfrQ "Animation canceling... ...an important part of League in general" (5:10 to see how animation cancelling exists in all basic attacks.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_VsVeoURfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uEFyHX-1Gs

It is a baseline mechanic of League of Legends, it is not something exclusive to Riven, it makes gameplay smooth and fluid. It affects most champions in the game drastically and all champions slightly as all basic attacks can be canceled.

At first I thought perhaps you created a smurf account as a non-Riven player to pretend you are a Riven player who disapproves of it, but after checking op.gg I saw you are a plat player who indeed plays Riven https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=rivn congratulations on plat btw more than I could ever do!

I speak to you with the utmost respect, but you are wrong, period. Animation canceling is a standard part of nearly every videogame in existence. Shooters? You can cancel portions of reload animations. Fighting games? You can cancel portions of attacks and defenses so you can more more quickly and fluidly. RTS games? Mobas are based on these and it functions roughly the same in both. etc it goes on.

Animation cancelling exist on all champions with basic attacks, and almost every spell without a cast time or channel. As a Shyvana player for example I can use Tiamat in conjunction with my E to cast both without having to stop moving for an eternity to cast my E. Another form of Animation canceling other than abilities is AAs, Riven uses this as well. AAs can be reset by abilities, items, movement and so forth, allowing for the instantaneous ending of the animation or even an instant second basic attack. AA resets like Titanic Hydra, Shyvana's Q, Nasus Q and so forth were made into a standard mechanic.

Animation cancelling has not been 'barred' from other champions unfairly either. The champions who had it removed were all dashes where you could flash mid dash to redirect a CC during the dash(Hecarim, Sej, Gragas, Shen) or were Zed. That is it. On that note, Riven cannot flash during her E and Q anymore either. She can flash into them, but not during them. So she has the same treatment. Riven also has had many bugs that were unfair patched out. For example the CC cancel, her W while landing Q3, her redirecting Q3 at the last moment with a ward.

Riven has not gotten special treatment with bugs, and animation canceling is a universal mechanic on all champions, just some more than others. It is not something Riot is going to fix, because it isn't broken. So with the utmost respect my Riven playing friend, please do not perpetuate a circlejerk that has no real backing other than "I hate Riven and I heard 'Animation Canceling' so remove whatever that is!"

Thank you, with complete respect - Mira.

42 Comments

Papa Andrei5 votes

I think the issue with Riven and with that post is the fact she is actually balanced around her animation cancelling. Its not that she can do it, but it is such an integral part of the way she functions Riot balanced her around this, hence why some people are salty as it was an unintended feature. Now don't get me wrong, unintended features being added to the game is not uncommon ( Rocket Jumping TF2) but it literally makes or breaks Riven if you can or can not do it. I can't, and I can'5 succeed as Riven

Shuyin1783 votes

Another unintended feature that got left alone was Vi's Q "pulling' non-champions instead of "pushing" them like her ult. Originally her Q was suppose to knock-away non-champions like her ult does (a smaller distance obviously), but the person coding her fucked it up and had her Q pull them into the line she traveled. This was left alone because it ended up having synergy with her E afterwards assisting her in lane and in the jungle to clear waves/camps easier.

Papa Andrei1 votes

See stuff like this is fine because its just like "Oh hey thats neat, lets keep it!" But when they need x 'feature' to function... then its an issue

Cosnirak5 votes

The problem with animation canceling is when you can use it to increase dps in a way that the enemy cannot understand without learning about animation cancelling. Riven comes up to you and does a bunch of fast movements and you die and you have no idea how it works and thus no idea how to deal with it until you learn how it works with her (not necessarily capable of doing it yourself, but understand it).

When an adc animation cancels their auto attack I still see that I was auto attacked. Riven isn't alone in animation canceling in ways that are deceptive and appear to let champions simply do massive amounts of damage for no good reason. I've Grave's full comboed with cancelling and it's filthy and feels very unfair.

I take issue with all animation canceling that's deceptive and/or allows for incredible burst. Yeah Riven gets extra hate because it's so important to her potential, but also because that fact is well known. I think that she deserves every bit of that hate. To me it's not that it's ok because others do it too, it's just the hate is less than it should be for the rest.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

So we should lower skillcap across the board because bronze players don't want to learn about a mechanic that exists in most this videogame? Sure lets removed ability buffering and orb walking while we are at it. Heck while we are at it remove items and stats entirely. They are hard to understand and noobs might not know why an enemy beat them because it didn't flash a warning on their screen that the enemy had a lot of armor vs them.

/s

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I mean, if you want all that just play Heroes of the Storm.

shots fired

Cosnirak1 votes

Animation cancelling that isn't easily visible is a knowledge burden that almost always requires some outside source of information to overcome. They have to hear about it from someone in a way that doesn't naturally occur from just playing the game.

Animation canceling is a purely mechanical skill once you know it exists and League has tons of mechanical skill without it, as well of course tons of strategic skill regardless. Items, stats, and orb walking are easily visible in game without any outside help. Orb walking is a little on the line because some never figure it out by just seeing it, but many do. It would be nice if some brief mention of it in some grokkable form for new players was in the tutorial.

Putting "/s" at the end of your post doesn't stop it from being reductio ad absurdum.

ImTheSideKick4 votes

I think the real hate is she can animation cancel to such a extreme all game

and has more ways to do it then any other champion

while others need to get a few items before they can really do the same (like ren and shyv)

orb walking is something any marksman can do at any time so no one cares about that

and I'm not sure a auto reset like nasus q counts as a animation cancel

riven just gets to do more, far more.

Ahristocats8 votes

{quoted}

I think the real hate is she can animation cancel to such a extreme all game

there is no hate, she was nerfed for this so it doesn't matter

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

I appreciate that backup from the boards master tier friend. In extension to this, the argument that she can do so to an extreme didn't make sense to me. The people who do it the most will be attack speed champions, it is just most essential on Riven in order to use her correctly.

ImTheSideKick1 votes

yet so many people do hate her. its why so man complain about her animation canceling and hate to play against her.

I stated a fact, nothing more. one only has to look and see the hundreds of posts on the boards to see that people do hate playing against her a she has so much hidden power.

hidden as she does a ton of damage without it ever being seen when she did it

Ahristocats3 votes

{quoted}

I stated a fact, nothing more

you stated a subjective feeling that you an some other players we don't know the amount feel, nothing more don't ever call it a fact

ImTheSideKick1 votes

never said I hated her.

Ahristocats3 votes

My bad, still not a fact

ImTheSideKick1 votes

way to many people complain about riven and have stated that they hate her for it not to be a fact that people hate her

even if only 2 people in the WHOLE world hate her that is still "people hate her" and thus makes it a fact and I'm pretty sure there is enough riven posts on the boards to prove more then 2 people hate her, thus proving my fact is indeed a fact

I find her annoying. and understand it takes a good deal of skill to pull off her animation cancels like a pro can

but she does do a lot of hidden damage. you have to admit that. as I said before. hidden as you don't even see what she did to do it. you don't see her get off her aa's or the hydra. all you see is qqqer dead when it was actually more like q aa q aa q aa e hydra w r

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Correction.

E-R-AA-T-W-AA-Q-R-AA-Q-AA-Q

Photos of Ghosts4 votes

I think we're talking about that old trick of binding laugh to a side button of the mouse, in order to get the guaranteed cancel.

Also, it's the fact that it's so forgiving. When Nasus Q's, he's going to then rise up again, after the thundering strike that he put all his flow in, and this very slowly. It takes almost a second. But you can cancel the great majority of that time and move instantly. Riven has the same thing for all her spells, you can gain SO MUCH from animation canceling compared to anyone else...

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

...go watch BoxBox animation canceling tutorial. That was a joke facepalm it allows her to look silly while laughing and moving, it doesn't help the fast combo one bit. Research first pls.

Automated Riven1 votes

no it isnt. you can still spam laugh and make her look stupid. it just doesnt help for anything.

500000000000000010 votes

Are you implying that tilt isn't the strongest CC in the game

Papa Andrei1 votes

You don't need to worry about the enemy if theya ren't at the computer

Fondling Gems3 votes

You don't need to worry about the enemy seeing the jungler gank if their screen has a fist sized hole in it.

ChaoticPinecone3 votes

Nasus will cancel his animation on his Q. Riven will cancel 3 animations for her 3 Q's for the fast-combo. On top of that, she can cancel the animation of her 3rd Q with her E, her W with her E, and both parts of her ult with her E. Then to make matters even worse she can cancel two of her abilities with her E as at the same time.

Champions like Nasus will get an extra auto in due to animation canceling, which is a core part of his power but not gamechanging. Riven getting her animation cancel turns her into a "meh" champion into possibly the best in the game.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Well, I'm watching it, and first thing he says is: "delay between autoattacks if you aa+q in place+small movement < normal delay between autoattacks" T H A T I S N O T N O R M A L Nothing should allow you to do your next regular attack sooner than the timer. Autattack resets allow you to do 1 RESET counts as new 1 . . . 2 instead of 1 . . . 2 Which allows you one extra auto in close to no extra time, essentially; Riven is just doing 1 ABILITY shouldn't count as anything for the sake of autos . 2

GankedFromBehind2 votes

Viktor's Q does.

Q, input move commant, auto to instantly zap your enemies in one fluid animation.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Q is already a reset tho. As I said, a reset puts a new point 1 of the cycle. It reduces the time between the PREVIOUS auto and the reset one. It doesn't affect the NEXT one.

Boxbox talked about a series of actions that shortens the timer before the NEXT autoattack. That's just a bug and extraneous power.

Frius4 votes

animation cancering

RogueWill2 votes

She just gets far more benefits from animation canceling. Although animation canceling exist on most champions the end results vary greatly, for some it adds so much power (riven) and for others is bearable noticeable. Take Vi for example, her 3rd aa animation can be canceled, you can also cancel animation after Q (to land a second aa withing the knock up time) and there is a bunch of other animation canceling using her ult. But you can only pull 2 of those canceling per trade (while riven can pull 4 if I ain't mistaken) and the only you will gain is one extra aa out of it, while still requiring similar precision as a riven animation canceling. See the difference?

Arakadia2 votes

I would say Riven's animation canceling widens the gap too much between mediocre and great Riven players. What do you think?

50000000000000002 votes

Isn't it more between bad and mediocre Riven players?

Automated Riven1 votes

I would say more this. I am probably a mediocre riven player. but I do every animation cancel regularly except the fast combo.

Papa Andrei1 votes

And i am a horrible riven player. Tried for like a month straight of customs just to learn her, failed quite miserably and died to gromp more than once.

Automated Riven1 votes

I have been playing her for six months almost exclusively .. and I still suck at her

Papa Andrei1 votes

I think my biggest issues is the damaged tendons in my left hand for actually comboing xD yay brain to body latency :p

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

Possibly, but the moment we take it from her instead she becomes League's easiest to play but most worthless champion. Because every champion can do it, the only reason it helps her so much is because it works best on her. That said it helps every single champion, just her more. However, as she is balanced around it existing, this just means that it is required to play her well.

InivtesPreeze2 votes

It is abusing a known bug, otherwise known as an exploit. It is NOT an intentional feature. Your arguments are irrelevant based on this fact.

It is broken. You typed up a 10 page essay based on your shitty opinion.

rtbf2145528142 votes

well yeah i understand thats its a mechanic that applies to a good portion of champs but its dumb hows its an excuse to balance changes regarding rivens state based on how it works with her kit.

Gregor Gysi6 votes

No it's not an "excuse", it's a reason. A good one aswell.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Graves is balanced around it, all ADCs are balanced around it, Renekton is bakanced around it. Any champion in the game who can improve their power by a noticeable amount by practicing orb walking/animation cancels are balanced around them being there. Just like champions balanced around ability buffering.

WarlockLaw2 votes

Imo the issue with Riven in her animation canceling isn't that she has it, but that she benefits far more from it then any other champion. You are correct that everyone can auto attack animation cancel (well not Kalista but who cares about her). However not every champion has abilities they can animation cancel with into each other, but Graves and Riven both do. Personally I think canceling auto attack animations is fine as it is universal, but the ability canceling is not because it is something that has to be learned on a case by case basis. All it does is inflate the skill ceiling of a champion, which based off of what riot did to Azir and Kalista they don't want.

Frankly from a design aspect, I don't see the point of making an animation if players are just going to cancel it all the time, but that is another discussion entirely.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

I think Rivn means removing ability animation cancelling, not auto animation cancelling.

In that case I wouldn't see what is wrong. You comboing everything under 1 second may seem cool and mechanical, but it sure as hell isn't fun. (To play against)

Bardcookie1 votes

Heres my Bronze 10 opinion of this whole thing. Animation Canceling is definitely an important part of her kit, and as much as i hate her, never would I wanna see her get gutted cause they remove it. However, while most champs have it, they don't have much of it. Riven on the other hand, has a ton of canceling in her kit. I don't think she should have it all removed, however some of it should, and she should get compensation buffs because of it. But thats my Bronze 200 opinion. Take it as you will [slayer-jinx-wink]

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