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Meddler Seriously Knows Nothing About Karma (Or Any LoL Champs)

Winterkill··8 votes·1,644 views

From Meddler himself, he says that Karma is an interesting champion because her kit has a strength and damage side as well as reflective and protective side. Is he seriously this out of touch with the game? Karma's Mantra functions like a Heimerdinger upgrade system, it takes basically no skill to play Karma, she still has no unique gameplay or gameplay identity, her kit and the function of her kit exists in the game on other champions and item actives, she has hardly any damage options, there is no skill expression in any of her basic and Mantra abilities, and where is the reflection he is talking about?

Damage & Strength Side Q, Mantra Q, and Mantra W.

Reflective & Protective Side Mantra W, E, and Mantra E.

The new Mantra W mechanic is a gimmick. It's the same type of work they have been doing the past couple years on champion in the class updates, which have almost all been reverted or nerfed. Instead of actually tackling the problems with these champions and making them more unique, Riot Game Developers add an overpowered and horrible idea to the champion and make that the center piece of the champion. The entire rest of the kit will be dumbed down, nerfed, and remain in the same state it has been for years. I really want players to see that this will not make Karma a better champion. The new Mantra W mechanic is going to put her in the same spot Sejuani, Kalista, and Ryze are in right now. It's just honestly not good when these Developers could actually improve Karma by 10x by actually addressing the below issue:

  • Giving Karma an actual gameplay identity that is unique to her. Yes, she should be a duality mage/support with a kit that reflects that. The kit shouldn't be one side damage and the other side protection. If the Developers wanted to do that, then they should at the very least find a more unique way to make her Mantra E have more skill than just sitting in the back and pressing R+E.

  • Karma's Mantra system is basically Heimerdinger's upgrade system with his R. Karma should have a kit that plays off of the gameplay identity of being a duality mage/support. This means that every Basic ability and Mantra ability should be different. It feels like Mantra Q is just a Heimer R + Q beause it does nothing else but damage. A good example would be a ground targetable Mantra Q with the explosion being healing.

  • What is so special about Mantra E? I really want players to tell me why they think this is an original ability? It exists in the game on almost Enchanter that does it better on a single target, the function exists on two seperate item actives, and the function of the ability itself exists on so many champion ultimates.

New players are so stubborn and hung up on the fact that all Mage and Old Karma mains want back are her fans, shield bomb and clothesline mechanic. NO WE DON'T. If Developers like Meddler and NeuroCat actually took the time to address the glaring problems in Karma's kit, we wouldn't have a problem with it. Shield Bomb doesn't have to come back, but these Developers do owe us a better Mantra E that doesn't exist so much in the game. This rework NeuroCat did is not going to be successful and I don't want to be the one who said, "I told you so!"

Riot NeuroCat wanted to work on Karma's actual gameplay identity. She wanted to make Mantra Q ground targetable and maybe healing to the explosion. She wanted to find a more unique way to make Mantra E to fit an actual gameplay identity. Ultimately the blame falls on Meddler, like it has been for the past 5 years. Meddler refuses to allocate any time, resources, feedback, manpower, and an actual care to give this champion. Meddler is seriously delusional at this point because he has told so many lies, made so many promises, made so many inconsistant statements about Karma. Meddler allocated 4 months to Lux and Ahri. Karma was only allowed 8 weeks worth of work that spent 4 weeks of it on Mantra W concepts that weren't even used. I blame Riot NeuroCat for not standing up to him and doing what is right for Karma, but I ultimately blame Meddler who has had a complete disdain for Karma and her mains. This is 6 years worth of waiting for a garbage rework that is still not addressing her glaring problems.

Wake up, guys. The new Mantra W mechanic is a gimmick and not a proper ability that is going to make her any better than she is now. Front loading more damage into Karma'a Mantra Q is the worst decision ever. Keeping Mantra E the way it is when it exists so much in the game already, is the worst decision ever. Not actually changing the way her Mantra is used and gating the power of Mantra behind a Frost Queen-like passive is the worst decision ever.

13 Comments

dunder kill9 votes

her kit has a strength and damage side as well as reflective and protective side

It does. You list both sides. I don't understand how Meddler making a true statement means he's out of touch with the game. Sound to me you just wanted a craptastic clickbait title when the thread is actually about you not liking Karma lol

Winterkill1 votes

Let's sum it up for you, kid.

Q and Mantra Q & Mantra W

There are mages who have better damage, better wave clear, better healing on abilities, more interesting mechanics with their damage moves. What is Karma's? Q has been buffed more than 10 times to make it work. Mantra Q is blocked by minions, the damage is even more front-loaded now, and the explosion is completely useless and lackluster now. Mantra W exists in the game in multiple capacities and it is abused in another role. Making it so she can JG now is the same problem she has when it is being abused in the top lane.

Mantra W, E, and Mantra E

The concept of Mantra W thematically makes no sense on Karma and it should exist on a champion like Zilean, who can see the potential and strengths of his allies. You know, Zilean can see into the future and all. The mechanic on Mantra W was removed from old Soraka for a reason. Mantra W is a gimmick no matter how much you look at it and rework it. If the other parts of Karma's kit are ignored for just a gimmick on Mantra W, what about the rest of the kit and lack of a gameplay identity? Mantra E and E are just like every other shield in the game. Mantra E exists already so much in the game on item actives, gameplay mechanics, and champion kits.

So, no. There is nothing interesting about the kit. The damage is blocked behind minions and the functionality is not even being looked at . . . just more damage. The Mantra W is like every other tether in the game and it will be the same problems her current Mantra W has . . . . being used in a role she has no business being in. Mantra E already exists in the game and they still have yet to find a more interesting way to use her shields or give her an actual gameplay identity with it and other Mantra.

Dr Dog2 votes

if you start off by calling someone a kid you've already lost that argument

Winterkill1 votes

See ya, kid.

dunder kill1 votes

Did you even read what I wrote? I didn't say you didn't like karma's kit. I was calling you out on your hilariously shit clickbait title that you debunked yourself first thing in the thread. Learn2read kiddo

ZephyrDrake2 votes

Seems like the one that is out of touch and knows nothing about anything is you and not Meddler

Winterkill1 votes

No it's Meddler. Karma has had every Mantra ability buffed and then nerfed a month later. She has received the most numbers buff than any other champion. Her lack of hard CC and her only CC moves are always being buffed. The state Karma has been in is a result of a poorly conceptualized kit and gameplay identity that isn't' even present. You can say whatever you want, kid. The kit has not worked for the past 5 years and there is a reason why it hasn't. She remains in a pathetic state because of Meddler.

Illabethe2 votes

I don't care if W is a gimmick or not. And Karma doesn't have problems right now, nor is she "nonunique"

No other champ in the game can literally recover 20^2+ AP ratio health from a single skill. No other champ resets their cooldowns of their ult by hitting more targets, and auto attacking. No other champ can actually ABUSE Nimbus Cloak.

I've been picking up Karma for about the last month for fun...... and omfg..... I have the following identities every single game I play her:

  1. #1 damage on both teams (I don't take a damage keystone, so this is unusual)

  2. Regularly have over 650-700 move speed without using significant spells/items

  3. Usually don't use Q much, or spam R > E.

She is faster than any champion in the game...... even Janna or Nami...... when played correctly.

What I see in her rework:

-Jungling is going to be MUCH easier, and she had no problems before, because her passive is getting Large/Epic Monster on skill/auto proc cooldowns.

-Her W options will mostly give her something to do when she's out of combat to boost a teammate. It's a Gimmick, but it doesn't have to get in the way of using W offensively on a good Karma.

-We have no idea how Q and E changes will scale yet. Will have to wait and see.

What I do know will happen if Karma uses the new W:

-Her Passive will proc far less often, as it procs off enemies hit, not allies. The new feature is as much a vulnerability as a strength. -She will lose substantial offensive damage, the ability to heal, and stealth detection if she uses it.

Dr Dog1 votes

if you snowball on mid or jg karma your ult q can almost literally one shot a squishy, karma is also a hidden tank destroyer late game with about a 2.8 sec q cd, giant scaling and base along with a item 3135 and item 3151 along with being one of the most slippery champs in the game when played right with her tether and q kite

Winterkill1 votes

It doesn't look like you even read the Karma rework, with your tiny button eyes.

  • The Mantra W healing is going away for healing based off of AP and missing health, but more off of AP. They are shifting the ability to abuse it in the tank role for abusing it in the JG role.
  • She is no longer going to be resetting her cooldowns by doing damage. Karma is getting a new Frost Queen-like passive that brings up Mantra on a set timer.
  • Karma's problem was never being able to dish out damage. The problem is the ability to do different types of damage in a more unique way.
  • Her movement speed on E and Mantra E are being nerfed and the shields have already been nerfed.
  • You probably do. There is no way you can do any damage or be useful if you aren't using any other those abilities. I would have believed you more if you said you barely used Mantra W.
  • That's the problem . . . . to boost a teammate. It's catered to one type of play-style while doing absolutely nothing noteworthy to her other playstyle but a numbers buff. This ability will also determine any future nerfs and buffs to Karma because it is a ally-centric ability like Sejuani, Kalista, and Ryze all have . . . . oh look . . . . at the state they are in.
  • Again, kid, her Mantra ability CD is no longer going off of damage she does with other abilities.

================

You should really read the rework before you start making comments about it. It doesn't seem like you know anything, kid.

Illabethe1 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't look like you even read the Karma rework, with your tiny button eyes.

  • The Mantra W healing is going away for healing based off of AP and missing health, but more off of AP. They are shifting the ability to abuse it in the tank role for abusing it in the JG role.
  • She is no longer going to be resetting her cooldowns by doing damage. Karma is getting a new Frost Queen-like passive that brings up Mantra on a set timer.
  • Karma's problem was never being able to dish out damage. The problem is the ability to do different types of damage in a more unique way.
  • Her movement speed on E and Mantra E are being nerfed and the shields have already been nerfed.
  • You probably do. There is no way you can do any damage or be useful if you aren't using any other those abilities. I would have believed you more if you said you barely used Mantra W.
  • That's the problem . . . . to boost a teammate. It's catered to one type of play-style while doing absolutely nothing noteworthy to her other playstyle but a numbers buff. This ability will also determine any future nerfs and buffs to Karma because it is a ally-centric ability like Sejuani, Kalista, and Ryze all have . . . . oh look . . . . at the state they are in.
  • Again, kid, her Mantra ability CD is no longer going off of damage she does with other abilities.

================

You should really read the rework before you start making comments about it. It doesn't seem like you know anything, kid.

You're basically arguing with yourself.

  1. The heal is still there. Except it will scale more to AP.

W - Spirit Bond Ally Cast: Karma reduces target ally’s basic ability cooldowns by up to X seconds. Mantra - Harmony: The cooldown reduction amount is increased by Y seconds. Karma restores Z% of the ally’s max mana.

Enemy Cast: Karma deals X damage to target enemy. If they don’t break the tether, they are dealt X damage and rooted for T seconds. Mantra - Renewal: Roots for longer. When this deals damage, **Karma heals for Y% missing HP + Z% AP. **

(In bold so you read it; That's what it does CURRENTLY. Except, they are planning to make it scale more to AP. It will likely still sustain significantly in non PVP roles!)

  1. What you said about the passive is NOT ENTIRELY TRUE:

Passive - Gathering Fire Kindled Spirit -** When Karma deals damage to an enemy champ or large monster, Mantra’s cooldown is reduced by X seconds (to a cap of Y times over Z seconds).**

(In other words, in addition to reducing based on some set timer, it ALSO reduces based on every instance of damage done to a champion or Large monster. Aka..... almost the same as now, except friendlier to bad Karmas. It will have a cap to how far down it goes ...... which I'm willing to guess is going to scale with level, because late game..... Karma currently can instantly reset Mantra, and I doubt they are going to take that away from her.)

Souls Alight - Karma can see her allies’ total basic ability cooldowns.

  1. I don't know why you put that in there. That's subjective opinion. Not really a point.

  2. E is being nerfed AND buffed.

For Defiance (Mantra-E), the shared shield (and movespeed) percentage will be much higher than live, but will be split evenly across all nearby allies - now using Defiance will still be quite effective in a 2v2 or 3v3 scenario.

In other words, in small groups it's going to be faster/more powerful. In 5 man teams, it's going to be slower by a bit. And, it will still offer the FULL benefit to the main target!

(On a personal note: I maybe use team R > E 2-3 times a game, and I'm generally a 6-7 KDA Karma player with 60+ kill participations, the highest damage per team, substantial heals, high CC utility, etc who plays Karma at D II. It's not a huge deal if team shields get nerfed. It's about the one person you want to protect, or yourself, and I normally care far more about R > W than R > E, because then I can tank my team's damage, while they are free to hit skill-less targets)

  1. Don't know what you're referring to. I use all skills, but I use common Q's, auto attacks, common E's, and W's. I occasionally use other combos, but that's how you isolate a troublesome target and take them out. Not hail mary - no heal W's with a reduced root duration by spamming R Q or R E. You can get off 110% more skills if you are alive and healthy the entire game rather than blowing your heal for "iffy" extra damage or shields your team will misuse.

Mantra W KILLS. You highly underestimate its damage, and the extra damage you can get in with a 3.25 second root, and how many "I got countered" lanes you can win if you level W.

  1. Out of combat boosting really doesn't do any more than an Ardent Censer does. If you're going to fight in PVP and Mantra in out of combat, the result is basically..... they can clear minions faster and more successfully. Lots of things can do that. And after some point in the game, they will 1 shot minions, so it's a non issue.

Her Enemy/Monster uses will be far more utilized, so I doubt it will result in serious nerfs.

  1. Yes. It is.
chipndip11 votes

My issue with this thread is that you tried to say that Meddler is out of touch, but you've only proven that you don't know what you're complaining about.

Karma IS unique in the fact that her kit's basically a perfect balance of offensive and defensive functions. And here you are saying that her explosion off R+Q should have a healing factor...yet you're insulting actual game devs? Stay your lane.

Winterkill1 votes

Not really. Mantra E already exists in the game in multiple capacities. Mantra W is just another tether. Mantra Q is very lackluster. What does Karma do better than no other champion does?

I don't like Meddler. He is a terrible Game Developer and would prefer to prioritize a Ezreal or Ryze VGU than work on champions it really matters on. Meddler can fall in a hole for all I care.

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