Talking Point: We'll never have a healthy bot lane meta. It's the marksman class's fault.

chipndip1·2/12/2020, 7:35:23 PM·27 votes·10,777 views

I was gonna make this super long post, but I'ma keep it short.

Marksman are way too static and way too similar to each other in the game. The fact that they're basically required by the community to be meta on top of that makes them insufferable to the game's meta. Bot lane will always be a "Only 3 to 4 champions are viable" kind of lane because we'll never deal with the problem concerning marksman designs in this game, and there's only a few of them that break the mold in that regard.

58 Comments

ProphetOfDraven2/12/2020, 8:13:27 PM24 votes

I've been saying this for a while, the ADC class needs a complete rework. They have insane sustained damage, and the only counterplay is to just straight oneshot them or they will just kill you and your entire team in 3 seconds with their BPS ( burst per second ). Which is really toxic gameplay. I'd rather the game be heavily cooldown reliant, and not entirely focused on the ADC.

Tobykachu2/12/2020, 9:19:35 PM11 votes

This is why we often see in pro play that two ADC's are clearly of a higher priority than the rest of the class yet rarely get banned out by the enemy team. Last year it was Xayah and Kai'Sa, this year it's Senna and Aphelios. For the most part ADC's fulfill the same aim, so they just pick the two best.

Ragnaveil2/12/2020, 8:09:29 PM4 votes

But hey, lets not rework crit strike to just be a simple auto attack modifier and not this double damage senario that is RNG based. RNG is fine for the game, but when it comes to stats, its not a great idea nowadays considering how much value the difference of getting a crit and not a crit is. It also alienates marksmen who cant have a synergy with the stat extremely well (When's the last time you've seen crit varus, or crit kog?)

ModRowanstar2/13/2020, 7:04:17 AM3 votes

Freaking Jinx and Xayah. Ugh. Also why on this green earth are marksmen viable in every blasted lane?!!? WHY? I should not be facing them top and mid and jungle. What a mess.

Gath Immortal2/12/2020, 8:21:54 PM3 votes

elaboration would still be nice, even if I agree to some extent.

NelsieLisnen2/13/2020, 1:45:06 PM3 votes

I think you are overexaggerating. Lucian is a spellslinging early bully that falls off. Ez is a safe high range AD mage. Kai'sa and Vayne are low range, high mobility skirmishing tankbusters. Varus and Kog are 0 mobility hybrid on-hit champions. Xayah, Aphelios, Sivir and Jinx are high impact teamfighting carries that want to hurry to 3 item powerspikes. Ashe, Senna, and Jhin are synergistic utility carries. Draven is Draven. And Tristana is...there, I guess.

Now, poor balance or small viable pool is not a unique irk in bot. Few supports are considered top tier and they are mostly tanks. Braum, Naut, Tahm and Rakan. Enchanters are all obsolete now. And in jungle, basically every assassin or farming jungler is inferior to 3-5 ganking junglers depending on the patch. Lee, J4, Gragas, Elise, Rek. Basically how diverse a role's pool is means jack shiet when the optimal champions are too strong. Remember summer split mid meta? azircorkiazircorkiazircorkiazircorkiarokirzirokrocczroarorki. And that's mid, the supposedly second most diverse role in the game.

BigFBear2/13/2020, 5:02:42 AM2 votes

AA champs are problematic in general. Their should only 2-4 AA champs in the game and they should all be as different as possible.

vgamedude2/13/2020, 12:57:32 AM2 votes

Yep. Marksmen are so similar that you just pick the 3 out of 16 or 18 that are the best since they all play so similarly and just keep playing them.

Having an entire group of champions with the highest reliable damage in the form of the easiest to execute damage, unmissable range autos, is just dumb on the face of it. If this wasn't the established norm everyone would find it absurd that the highest damage form is the one with the lowest skill.

For every other role people go on about execution, skill shots, outplay etc, but then turn off their brain when it comes to "AD carry".

This game needs a total reimagination of not only the marksmen role but the really toxic silly idea of "carries" and constant usage of this idea. Unfortunately I doubt we will ever see this game actually become balanced, too many people, especially pros and community "figures" are way too invested in keeping the game the way it is and killing change and variety.

Worst JG Wins2/13/2020, 10:18:26 AM2 votes

This is what i said like 2 years ago when they did the ADC "rework" champs are too similar and too focused on one aspect of the game.

vgamedude2/13/2020, 1:05:05 PM2 votes

By the way, I want to point out I was just watching yesterdays GRF vs SB game (lck_) and there were FOUR MARKSMEN in one game.

FOUR. It's apparently fair that Varus can also win mid versus a ZOE by the way, and lucian can entirely zone and destroy pantheon. Very balanced fun game.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER2/13/2020, 4:56:11 AM2 votes

Have to disagree with this one, most games ADCs are useless and aren’t even doing that much damage compared to their counterparts

The thigh guy2/13/2020, 11:27:29 PM1 votes

The real issue is adcs are only allowed in one role. If they ever leave that one role that riot has approved for them, they get gutted into the dirt.

vgamedude2/15/2020, 2:10:34 AM1 votes

Another fun fact, the first GRF vs APK game today had a game where there was only ONE ap damage type in the entire game in the jungle on one team. The entire rest of the game was AD and there were two marksmen on one team.

VERY balanced game

SammyDayspring2/16/2020, 12:36:43 AM1 votes

Marksmen are an extremely common class in games. Only Riot seems to have such a hard time balancing them. They caused the problem themselves by making the game too complex to balance. Between all the crazy damage, runes reforged and the items, they can't get it right.

They should drop runes completely. Make the champions unique but but balanced. Make the real damage and stats come from items so that each game requires more thought about what you build. Instead they seem stuck on trying to make new flashy champs that break the game. It will always fail.