Garen updates to make him competitive

Nebuul·Mar 29, 2015·15 votes·1,877 views

I like the changes to Garen's ultimate cooldown. However, there are a couple more things that I feel would really make him much more viable as a competitive pick:

Change E so that he no longer has a movement reduction when passing through units. In the new meta with so many hyper-mobile champions, knock-ups, and other cc, is it really necessary to still have this slow on a champion with no real gap closers?
Add an execute graphic over opponents' heads so that Garen knows when his ult will kill someone were he to cast it.
If Garen gets a kill or assist, give him a reset on W, or maybe instead if he had W active, increase the duration by a second or something.

Just some thoughts that would make him effective in the new movement-and-disable-happy meta.

25 Comments

KING OF MASKSMar 29, 20158 votes

This would actually be a decent change. By the way, his Q is a gap closer, if a relatively weak one.
Absolutely fucking not; Garen is already a very easy-to-learn, easy-to-master champion, there is no reason for him to have an ult indicator. Just no.
Maybe not a full reset, but a CD reduction? Could work.

To be perfectly honest though, in all likelihood none of these changes would make him competitively viable. His kit just isn't made for coordination-intensive teamfights where CC and peel are used with precision; but in lower elo or even just solo queue, where things are much more disorderly, he shines.

Leti the YetiMar 29, 20155 votes

well chogath has an indicator? dat shit's true damage ffs >:l

zed has an indicator that tells him when it's time to pussy out as the other guy will inevitably die form the death mark.. assuming nothing saves them in time Shen

KarKzzMar 29, 20154 votes

Chogath precisely know the damage that his ult will do. Garen don't.

KING OF MASKSMar 29, 20154 votes

In Zed's case, he's approximately a thousand billion times more complex than Garen. An indicator of that sort is a welcome addition to such a mechanically intensive kit.

When it comes to Cho'Gath, though... frankly I don't think he should have an indicator either. But if I were to make an argument for why he should (as opposed to Garen, who definitely 100% should not), for one his kit is also slightly more complicated due to his two skillshots. And additionally, his ult has a slightly more complex usage in the form of his health stacks; basically, Garen's ult is a straight execute, whereas Cho's has a bit more interaction that makes it slightly more integral to his playstyle. I guess.

I dunno, they should just remove Cho's indicator too, if you ask me. He's not that much more complicated than Garen, and he shouldn't really need it given that the ult deals true damage.

flibitydooMar 29, 20154 votes

Why does his E still critically strike?

Atmas and SOTD are no longer in the game.

KING OF MASKSMar 29, 20151 votes

If you're doing extremely well in lane and start snowballing hard, you can get an Infinity Edge as your last or second-to-last item. Works very well.

Critmaster GarenMar 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Why does his E still critically strike?

Atmas and SOTD are no longer in the game.

infinity edge and ghostblade are. if anything, id like to see an increase in the crit scaling of his e, to maybe give him a little more damage lategame.

however, the removal of the self slow has priority imo. it should at least be removed from the rank 5 spin.

Spawned101Mar 29, 20153 votes

honestly i would be happy with half the cooldown on his Q being refunded if he kills a unit with it and removing the movement reduction when passing through units on his E

AFK PushMar 29, 20153 votes

Or we take the crit "scaling" off of his E, and make it scale with additional hp.

DreamReaper123Mar 29, 20151 votes

I think it should have a small amount of both. I wouldn't like to see crit garen removed though.

StyopaMar 29, 20153 votes

One more thing that I would like to add: His ult is one of the worst in the game, and is actually the worst execute ult in the game, and one of the worst executes across all moves, non-ultimates included; the CD is extremely long, the damage doesn't get very good until level 11, and it doesn't scale with anything except for the opponent's health. While I do like your idea for adding an indicator for how much damage it can do, I feel like they should rework Garen's ultimate:

Make it a short-to-mid-range high-cd Skillshot Nuke that does more damage. That way, it can reliably execute the enemy laner, while still maintaining a risk factor, where if you miss it, it's on CD for a while.
Make it have low scaling with Garen's AD, and give it a small (10%?) AOE Damage in a small radius and a 2-3 second slow. That way, Garen can prioritize tanks and provide peel, and when he lands a good execute on the tank, it punishes squishies who stay too close to the tank with some decent late game damage, and a slow for some lockdown on the more slippery carries. That way, even if you aren't Garen-teed an execute on the enemy, you can still use your ult for some CC to help turn a teamfight.

What do you guys think?

It Hertz When IPMar 29, 20152 votes

No. Just no. The last thing we need is another "skillshotz cuz counterplay durr" rework.
The AoE damage would actually make some sense given the graphics, which currently show a sword the size of Kansas slamming into the target. But adding CC to it detracts from the intent: this is a finishing blow in every sense of the word, to be used to execute someone. You can either leave it as that OR make it an initiation mechanism; you cannot balance an ability that does both. Which actually prompts be to ask: since his ult damage scales off the enemy's missing health is the 10% AoE damage scaling off the target of the ult or the surrounding targets?

redniwediSMar 29, 20152 votes

Garen is already able to carry games with good roams, he doesn't need a whole lot of help. That said the reason his self slow was put in is no longer a real problem. The ult graphic could be useful if they are still sticking to the "beginner champ" thing, but being able to judge when your ult will kill is currently a point of skill for Garen players.

The kill/assist reset thing sounds cool, but that might be a bit much.

GloriousKaiserMar 29, 20154 votes

Garen plays off the enemy teams incompetence. Too much so. He can't create his own opportunities like others can.

redniwediSMar 29, 20151 votes

He does thrive when punishing mistakes, however he can easily create opportunities. He's not a "farm top till team fights" champ, you have to roam with him during the lane phase to make the most of his capabilities, and that requires a whole lot of practice to get right, but it can be done.

Rinky DinkyMar 29, 20152 votes

Flash q e r creates some pretty interesting scenarios.

And by that I mean you slaughter anyone with less than 100 armor

GloriousKaiserMar 29, 20153 votes

Flash anything for any champion. With flashs lack of cast time, and instant usage, it can surprise anyone when used in conjuction with anyones skills.

Flash Hooks Flash Ults Flash X

Rinky DinkyMar 31, 20151 votes

He still creates an opportunity.

AshenFoxMar 29, 20152 votes

Ha ha ha ha.... No. Number 2, sure, maybe. The rest? No. Go home op, you're drunk.

Knight SoIaire Mar 29, 20151 votes

hahahahahahha and i just remembered the red post where they said that garen reaching competetive means he is broken

SantoJoeMar 29, 20151 votes

I started yesterday the same post, I hope you can take a look:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/QEEfqntJ-garen-rework-main-garen-diamond

Nevermind, if it's too long, here it goes some ideas:

Q - Decisive Strike: Garen removes all slows on him and gains 35% movement speed for 1.5 / 2.25 / 3 / 3.75 / 4.5 seconds. His next melee attack within 4.5 seconds will deal X + Y% of the target maximum health (+Z% per attack damage) physical damage and silence his target for 2.5 seconds.

W - Courage: (Passive): Garen's Armor and Magic Resistance are permanently increased by 20% of bonus Armor and Magic Resistance.

(Active): Garen places a defensive shield on himself, decreasing all damage taken by 30% and reducing the duration of crowd control by 30% for 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 seconds. Additionally, it activates Perseverance during its duration, even if Garen suffers damage.

Edit: (Option1): Also, it gives nearby ally champions a defensive shield, decreasing all damage taken by X% and reducing the duration of crowd control by Y%.

Edit: (Option2): Also, it taunts nearby enemies and force them to focus Garen for X seconds.

E- Judgment: Garen rapidly spins his sword around his body for 3 seconds dealing X + Y% of the target maximum health (+Z% per attack damage) physical damage to nearby enemies every half second. Garen can deactivate Judgment early by activating the ability again after 0.5 seconds. Garen cannot use Decisive Strike or Demacian Justice while Judgment is in effect. Damage to minions is reduced by X%. Garen ignores unit collision while spinning, but takes a 20% movement speed penalty when passing through minions.

The Q and E changes are for him to be able to build bruiser or off-tank and been able to deal reasonable amounts of damage to anyone he can catch, note that the %max health based damage ensures that if Garen catches (for some reason) a squishy target, he won't explode in 2,5 seconds while a 4-tank-items-guy is on him.

The Optional changes on W would give him a "skillshot" to add more complexity to the champion, but at the same time, giving him a tool to help teammates in teamfights.

Silents429Mar 29, 20151 votes

Change E so that he no longer has a movement reduction when passing through units. In the new meta with so many hyper-mobile champions, knock-ups, and other cc, is it really necessary to still have this slow on a champion with no real gap closers?

Considering Wukongs ult speeds him up for some reason, Wukong has an escape and Gapcloser/Slow I say this is good.

Add an execute graphic over opponents' heads so that Garen knows when his ult will kill someone were he to cast it.

It's called an HP bar.

If Garen gets a kill or assist, give him a reset on W, or maybe instead if he had W active, increase the duration by a second or something.

No. He doesn't need resets.

If you want to help him out, make his Q give a slow reduction.

SageaceMar 29, 20151 votes

Yes to the first idea, a definite no for the second idea, and a maybe for the third idea.

The first idea I would not mind at all. The second idea will make Garen more like an assassin. He is a Fighter for Justice, not a "kill the weakling" Character. It will not fit his theme for the game. As for the third, .............eh, I would not mind that idea.

UPfreelyMar 30, 20151 votes

i think it would be nice if his w scaled with MR/armor or HP could be either duration and/or bonuses