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Atma's Impaler and a suggestion

Illâoi Evê Siôn··10 votes·1,843 views

Feathered Veil

  • Recipe: Raptor's Cloak + Chalice of Harmony + 200 Gold = 2200 Gold
  • 30 Armor ; 30 Magic Resistance ; 50% base Mana ; 100% base Health Regen
  • UNIQUE Passive - Point Runner: Builds up to +30% Movement Speed over 2 seconds while near turrets.
  • UNIQUE Passive - Mana Font: Restores 2% of your missing Mana every 5 seconds.
  • UNIQUE Active: Shields a target allied structure for 60 (+10 per level) damage for 3 seconds (60 seconds cooldown). After the shield breaks, nearby enemies are slowed by 20% for 2 seconds.

Since we now have 3 items for pushing and diving, but none for defending towers and inhibs (aside from the point runner passive).

Atma's Impaler

  • Recipe: Pickaxe + Kindlegem + 675 Gold = 2400 Gold
  • 30 Attack Damage ; 200 Health ; 10% Cooldown Reduction
  • UNIQUE Passive: Kills and Assists restore 5% of your missing Health.
  • UNIQUE Passive: Deal an additional 5 (+1 per level) (+1% Health) bonus true damage over 3 seconds upon dealing physical damage.

I find this to be more appealing than the late Atma's Impaler for various reasons. It brings back the lost DoT of Spirit of the Elder Lizard. It deals true damage befitting its 'Impaler' name and has counterplay through Health unlike Armor Penetration. The stats are mediocre, yet good for Fighters and not for most Marksmen (so it can't be abused).
It rewards offensive play instead of nothing.
The stats are healthier than the weird Armor, Attack Damage, Crit Chance mix.

18 Comments

ladention5 votes

Make the dot stronger. maybe 4+(2X Level)+1% HP? Just a thought. I have been missing Atmas impaler a lot tho.

Talamare2 votes

{quoted}

Make the dot stronger. maybe 4+(2X Level)+1% HP? Just a thought. I have been missing Atmas impaler a lot tho.

It's weak but its basically stronger than Spirit of the Lizard Elder

Spirit of the Lizard Elder was 14 ( 2 * level ) or 50 at 18. This reaches that at 2700 hp, then keeps going

Kuroi863 votes

The stats are mediocre, yet good for Fighters and not for most Marksmen (so it can't be abused).

... backwards much?

Fighters were the abusers. So no.

Hemulen Magi7 votes

{quoted}

... backwards much?

Fighters were the abusers. So no.

Using and abusing are the same thing now? So, ADCs abuse Infinity Edge?

If you were referring to "meta golem," not all tanky champions (tank with 1 or 2 damage items versus bruiser is a blurry distinction at best) used that build even at its height. On the other hand, nearly every ADC will build an Infinity Edge and Last Whisper then fall into one of two cookie cut builds for the rest of their items... Does that mean Infinity Edge should be gutted then deleted down the road? Atma's was removed largely because it wasn't getting built very often or by very many champions, but the bigger story was it wasn't being built because it had been gutted...

Kuroi862 votes

An ADC can't necessarily abuse item 3031 . They can't build it, then go tank and be indestructible raid bosses. The reason the item was nerfed was due to the few edge cases where a champ would pick up Atma's, then go full tank and still deal as much if not more damage than assassins and ADCs.

Similarly to how spellvamp has had to be so seriously nerfed due to Vladimir & Mordekaiser and can't be buffed back until the two champs get their inevitable reworks. An item like Atma's cannot be reinstated until the niche cases have been weeded out and the item can't be abused like it was pre-nerf.

I enjoy tanks and bruisers, so the ideal of an AD/AR item is appealing. But it has to be done in a way that won't allow bruisers to suddenly go ape shit on SR resulting in the item and probably a LOT of bruisers getting nerfed to hell and back.

Talamare3 votes

{quoted}

An ADC can't necessarily abuse item 3031 . They can't build it, then go tank and be indestructible raid bosses. The reason the item was nerfed was due to the few edge cases where a champ would pick up Atma's, then go full tank and still deal as much if not more damage than assassins and ADCs.

So you're saying they are going to nerf Triforce? or Hydra? or Black Cleaver?

Atma's NEVER gave very much damage

Building 1 offensive item and going full tank is basically what every Bruiser does with more or less any item.

Kuroi862 votes

It was still a problem item at the core of a meta that Riot wants to avoid happening again.

Again, I'm not against an AD/AR item, but it's implementation needs to be cautious to avoid bruisers abusing it. That class already rides a razor thin line between being op and up.

LupusNox1 votes

That DoT is legit nothing late game, it would be basically 14 true damage per second.

The stats are also trash, no one would get it IMO

Ratbert1 votes

But imagine the urgot.

Erijian1 votes

Wow, Atma's giving 50 AD, 40 Armor, and 15% Critical Chance on the typical Bruiser sure is broken right?

It's not like ADCs have broken mechanics like Critical Chance to work with as well as having an abusive amount of Armor Penetration through Last Whisper to top it off pretty much making Atma's an item of just AD and Critical Strike in the long run. I'm more worried about ADCs being able to abuse an AD/AR item than I am Bruisers in the current Meta.

Just make the next Atma's Impaler Melee only so ADCs can't touch it and balance it solely around Bruisers instead of having to be worried about ranged champs being able to abuse it so there's only focus on balancing it for Bruisers.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Did you actually play during the time that Atma's Impaler was a huge deal?

Because not a single Marksman touched the damn thing. It was even designed for them as an offensive Armor item, but they never wanted it because it was so mediocre for them.

Meanwhile, it was built on every bruiser in the game, simply because it was a ridiculously efficient offense+defense option. Unlike Marksmen, Bruisers' combat effectiveness is based on both offense and defense, so having an item that grants offense and defense, and scales its offensive bonus on your defense, meant that it worked too well.

The game has been balanced around the existence of Critical Chance and Armor Pen. I'm not going to claim that they're perfectly balanced, but they aren't broken. They're nothing like Atma's Impaler.

Erijian1 votes

{quoted}

Did you actually play during the time that Atma's Impaler was a huge deal?

I wasn't referring to the pre-nerf Atma's Impaler, pre-nerf Atma's wouldn't give 50 AD average.

Because not a single Marksman touched the damn thing. It was even designed for them as an offensive Armor item, but they never wanted it because it was so mediocre for them.

I never said Marksmen used Atma's Impaler, I said I'm more concerned over ADCs being able to abuse an Offensive/Defensive item in the current meta than I am Bruisers being able to abuse one.

Meanwhile, it was built on every bruiser in the game, simply because it was a ridiculously efficient offense+defense option. Unlike Marksmen, Bruisers' combat effectiveness is based on both offense and defense, so having an item that grants offense and defense, and scales its offensive bonus on your defense, meant that it worked too well.

I wasn't referring to the pre-nerf Atma's Impaler, once again. The post-nerf Atma's hardly worked too well and became nearly useless on most champions besides Garen.

The game has been balanced around the existence of Critical Chance and Armor Pen. I'm not going to claim that they're perfectly balanced, but they aren't broken. They're nothing like Atma's Impaler.

I wasn't referring to the pre-nerf Atma's Impaler, once again. If you think the current Atma's Impaler, the one before being removed was broken, then you're delusional because it was gutted pretty hard only averaging 50 AD rather than the old 70 AD which was pretty much top-tier offense in regards to AD items back then. I'd argue that Critical Chance is broken just to the sheer fact that you can Critically Strike five times in a row with just 20% Critical Chance and that Last Whisper is able to shred 120+ off of Tanks making it insanely Gold Efficient, but that's a topic for another time. Reading comprehension needs some practice.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

I wasn't referring to the pre-nerf Atma's Impaler, pre-nerf Atma's wouldn't give 50 AD average.

50 AD on pre-nerf Atma's required 2500 HP. After Warmog's or Frozen Mallet (which was always paired with Atma's), you were guaranteed at least that much HP on bruisers.

Post-nerf, it would take 3333 HP.

I never said Marksmen used Atma's Impaler, I said I'm more concerned over ADCs being able to abuse an Offensive/Defensive item in the current meta than I am Bruisers being able to abuse one.

And I'm here to tell you that a Marksman will not abuse an offense/defense item. The only time that will happen is if it's so insanely broken that bruisers basically become invulnerable gods.

Again, look at Atma's. Even in it's prime, only barely more efficient than other builds (as evidenced by its drop-off after the nerf), but bought by bruisers and bruisers alone. Nerf goes through, and it's bought on very rare occasions.

I wasn't referring to the pre-nerf Atma's Impaler, once again. The post-nerf Atma's hardly worked too well and became nearly useless on most champions besides Garen.

I wasn't referring to the pre-nerf Atma's Impaler, once again. If you think the current Atma's Impaler, the one before being removed was broken, then you're delusional because it was gutted pretty hard only averaging 50 AD rather than the old 70 AD which was pretty much top-tier offense in regards to AD items back then. I'd argue that Critical Chance is broken just to the sheer fact that you can Critically Strike five times in a row with just 20% Critical Chance and that Last Whisper is able to shred 120+ off of Tanks making it insanely Gold Efficient, but that's a topic for another time. Reading comprehension needs some practice.

You keep saying you weren't referring to pre-nerf Atma's. I got it the first time; you're willingly ignoring the reason Atma's Impaler was removed.

Never mind that the point of what I said was that a Marksman will not abuse an offense/defense item before every bruiser will. Never mind that the entire reason Atma's Impaler was removed was because of the difference between pre- and post-nerf usage. Never mind that Riot actually designed Crit Chance so that you're not going to get 5 crits in a row with 20% Crit Chance, and that reducing Armor by 120 would require them to already have over 300 Armor in the first place. Never mind that I didn't say I liked Critical Chance, only that the game was balanced around its existence.

You're right, reading comprehension does take practice. The fact that I assumed one ambiguous thing that you didn't clarify until this response doesn't mean I'm the one who needs practice.

Erijian1 votes

{quoted}

50 AD on pre-nerf Atma's required 2500 HP. After Warmog's or Frozen Mallet (which was always paired with Atma's), you were guaranteed at least that much HP on bruisers.

..That's kind of random, actually. I said Bruisers didn't average 50 AD on Atma's pre-nerf because what kind of Bruiser only had 2500 HP? Most had at least 3500 at Lv.18 giving them 70 AD off of the item. I didn't say they didn't reach 50 AD with it, I said the average WAS NOT 50 AD like it was post-nerf.

And I'm here to tell you that a Marksman will not abuse an offense/defense item. The only time that will happen is if it's so insanely broken that bruisers basically become invulnerable gods.

I think you're stuck in the past if you honestly think Bruisers are still broken when only a few are currently viable, you have some sort of Bruiser bias which makes it hard to convince you of anything.

Again, look at Atma's. Even in it's prime, only barely more efficient than other builds (as evidenced by its drop-off after the nerf), but bought by bruisers and bruisers alone. Nerf goes through, and it's bought on very rare occasions.

Because a 20 AD hit is pretty crummy and made the item no longer worth the purchase, yep.

You keep saying you weren't referring to pre-nerf Atma's. I got it the first time; you're willingly ignoring the reason Atma's Impaler was removed.

An item like that is hard to balance, was too strong, got nerfed, became hardly purchased and was removed. I don't need to explain it to you because you act like you know everything already.

Never mind that the point of what I said was that a Marksman will not abuse an offense/defense item before every bruiser will. Never mind that the entire reason Atma's Impaler was removed was because of the difference between pre- and post-nerf usage. Never mind that Riot actually designed Crit Chance so that you're not going to get 5 crits in a row with 20% Crit Chance, and that reducing Armor by 120 would require them to already have over 300 Armor in the first place. Never mind that I didn't say I liked Critical Chance, only that the game was balanced around its existence.

Erm, the Critical Strikes in this game are completely RNG and such things like that happen quite often. Was a thread a while back about a guy getting Critically Hit by a Riven three times in a row when she just had a Ghostblade, and it happens all the time in game. It's RNG, you always have a 20% chance of Critically Striking in my example and you can get extremely lucky and Critically Hit numerous times in a row and Riot has no system that stops that, don't defend it.

Yeah, it does take a rather high amount of armor to get 120 shaved off. I forgot to factor in the fact that all ADCs run %Penetration masteries so it's practically 41% Penetration off of a random number like 250, which is 102 + the 20 pen from a Ghostblade or something along those lines and ban. Half of your Armor is gone. There you go.

You're right, reading comprehension does take practice. The fact that I assumed one ambiguous thing that you didn't clarify until this response doesn't mean I'm the one who needs practice.

If you played the game often and knew of the item, you'd know that high of AD on Atma's would be related to the post-nerf one, and stop downvoting me because you're getting all irritated with me, it's immature.

JustMyBassCannon

{quoted}

..That's kind of random, actually. I said Bruisers didn't average 50 AD on Atma's pre-nerf because what kind of Bruiser only had 2500 HP? Most had at least 3500 at Lv.18 giving them 70 AD off of the item. I didn't say they didn't reach 50 AD with it, I said the average WAS NOT 50 AD like it was post-nerf.

The original comment had said nothing about pre- or post-nerf, so I had nothing to work with from the start. The fact that I decided to go with pre-nerf seemed to offend you.

Yes, it was random that I threw in that fact. I have no idea why I did it either.

I think you're stuck in the past if you honestly think Bruisers are still broken when only a few are currently viable, you have some sort of Bruiser bias which makes it hard to convince you of anything.

Shyvana is one of my main champions. I like the Bruiser playstyle in general when I'm not playing Mages. I also am very aware that the current state of Bruiser balance is a razor-wire walk. By the time one subset of them gets rebalanced, a second group has risen to power and a third set is off in the shadows, barely functioning due to the meta.

I do have my biases, but that's part of being a human being.

Because a 20 AD hit is pretty crummy and made the item no longer worth the purchase, yep.

An item like that is hard to balance, was too strong, got nerfed, became hardly purchased and was removed. I don't need to explain it to you because you act like you know everything already.

Yes, I "act" knowledgeable. Because I know quite a bit. It tends to happen when you play a game for 4 years.

Erm, the Critical Strikes in this game are completely RNG and such things like that happen quite often. Was a thread a while back about a guy getting Critically Hit by a Riven three times in a row when she just had a Ghostblade, and it happens all the time in game. It's RNG, you always have a 20% chance of Critically Striking in my example and you can get extremely lucky and Critically Hit numerous times in a row and Riot has no system that stops that, don't defend it.

There is actually a system in place that makes it less random. Systemically, it's like this; whenever you make an attack, it makes the roll for Crit Chance. If it succeeds, your chance invisibly 'decreases', and if it fails, you chance invisibly 'increases'. This variance means that the longer you attack and don't get a crit, the more likely you are to get a crit on the next attack. The more often you crit, the more likely you are to get an attack that does not crit. This is a halfway between being entirely random and being a crit being guaranteed every X attacks.

Sure, it's still possible to get 5 Crits in a row on 20%, but it's significantly less likely to happen. Never mind that the original likelyhood of 5 Crits on 20% is one in 3125 chances.

Yeah, it does take a rather high amount of armor to get 120 shaved off. I forgot to factor in the fact that all ADCs run %Penetration masteries so it's practically 41% Penetration off of a random number like 250, which is 102 + the 20 pen from a Ghostblade or something along those lines and ban. Half of your Armor is gone. There you go.

Actually it's 38.9%, because % penetration is multiplicative scaling (you remove the 6% from the 65% remaining after Last Whisper, rather than the whole 100%). And I calculated for that. I didn't calculate for Flat Pen because I haven't seen many people using it, but if I do, then it 'only' takes a target with 277 Armor.

If you played the game often and knew of the item, you'd know that high of AD on Atma's would be related to the post-nerf one, and stop downvoting me because you're getting all irritated with me, it's immature.

You said 50 AD on a typical bruiser. Having gone through that part of the game, seeing many games where they lasted long enough for people to get 3 items and maybe hit level 13 by the time either a Nexus blew or one team surrendered, "Typical" means something different pre- and post-nerf. It would have been less ambiguous if you'd said "end-game" but now I'm just nit-picking.

I also removed the auto-up votes attached to my own posts, because I personally find it kind of insulting, like Liking your own posts on Facebook. But, sure, I'll go ahead and remove the down votes.

Erijian1 votes

{quoted} snip because we're wasting a lot of room on the front page

Using 250 as an example + Ghostblade it goes to 117 Armor, yours was about 123. Both off by a bit but whatever, the game doesn't actually round it just holds the values in mind but rounds to look smoother. From how the critical hits sounds, it still seems to pretty much be random in the long run. Dodge was removed because of the broken mechanics and I pretty much feel like Critical Chance should've went as well as they were pretty much yin and yang (One dealing 100% more damage total and one taking 100% less damage total, both in regards to Auto Attacks). I wasn't exactly clear, but when I chose the numbers I preferred to stay along end-game stats (Which is typical to me because I feel like it's easier to base things off of those stats vs stats at any random point in a match)

And I can agree on that, I find the self-liking automatic system a bit irritating because I don't really say things to know whether I liked it or not, I want feedback more than anything from third-party people in regards to discussions I'm having with other people or topics I create.

I also keep getting randomly logged out without being able to log back in, just a nuisance but whatever.

JustMyBassCannon

People keep suggesting having Crit turned into a "Precision" type stat, where it just directly multiplies damage output by a percentage against non-structures. While it would take some work with the few champions with special Crit mechanics, I like that idea, and I'm not entirely sure why it hasn't been implemented.

Hilltop Sunset1 votes

I think the funniest part of Atma's is that it provides a benefit based on a stat it does not provide. Archangel's staff will be my comparison: provides AP based on mana. Also gives up to 750 mana. Atma's provides AD based on HP. Gives no HP at all in the item itself. One way to incentivize buying other HP items would be to make it gives %X max HP, so that the more HP items you get, the more useful the item becomes, for two reasons instead of just one.

Just something I thought while considering Atma's.

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