Aftershock resists should be reduced for ranged champions

feintfiend·Jan 30, 2019·30 votes·13,299 views

Title

44 Comments

MarshbouyJan 30, 201918 votes

Aftershock should scale off of bonus resists and shouldn't give loads of flat resistances to whoever wants them.

BigFBearJan 31, 20192 votes

No! Aftershock is the only Resolve Keystone that is good if you play bulky Juggernauts but it can happen that only your second or even third item has resistance. For example: I play Voli Jungle. My first Item is Jungle Tank item (0 Resistance) finished around 10 minutes. My second item is Righteous Glory (30 Armor) finished around 20 minutes. So the only bonus resistance I have after 20 minutes (2/3 of the game) is just 30 Armor. Do you want me to be useless with that Keystone for the entire early and mid game? The Resolve Runes already are very niche and it's thy only keystone who give a bit tankyness. If you want it to scale of with something, than with HP because that's what every bulky player builda from start on. Even Junglers.

Beast BrawlerJan 31, 20191 votes

Bulky Juggernauts generally get one offensive item and go tank, so it doesn't affect them. Scaling off of bonus resists instead of bonus AD and AP is better for you anyways, and it already has an HP scaling. It really needs to scale off of resists instead of damage, or else Riot can't really say it was intended to be a tank rune.

BigFBearJan 31, 20193 votes

Riot never said that Resolve Tree is only for tanks. They actually said the exact opposite. They made those runes that also non tanks can profit from them. It's intended.

Also did you read what I wrote?? As Jungler your first item is the Jungle Item and it has ZERO resistance. So Jungler can't profit from that Keystone the first 10 Minutes??

And even after that (or as laner) many Juggs build one or two from these nowadays: item 3053 item 3748 item 3078 item 3071 item 3022 item 3800 And that means still (almost) no bonus resistance.

Making Aftershock (the only real defensive choice they have at Keystones) useless for those champs would be totally dumb. That would force them to pick Offensive Keystones and then you all would cry again about too much damage in the game.

But luckily Riot will never do this change because they know it's a dumb idea.

Beast BrawlerJan 31, 20191 votes

Yeah I know the tree isn't only for tanks, I never said the tree was tank specific, I said Aftershock was tank specific, as you need CC to go in and actually use it. Many juggernauts would just take Conqueror, Phase Rush, or Kleptomancy (Illaoi). You've still got armor/mr from runes and rune shards, and it will help you more overall than the measley amount of AD you'd get from a tri-force and a titanic. You act like because it's not the first item you build you don't build it at all, try to be a bit more objective and factual and cu back on the bias bub. It wouldn't be useless, as Juggernauts get usually Trinity or Cleaver and probably Sterak's (Darius and Illaoi are the two I'm really thinking about right now.) and then literally build full tank to stay alive in a team fight because they already have high base damage. Having a defensive rune scale off of damage would cause people to cry about damage because it incentivizes damage, meanwhile having defenses scale off of defenses incentivizes building tanky which would make it much harder to kill you and overall lower the amount of damage in the game.

BigFBearFeb 1, 20191 votes

i dont say they dont build tank at all but they may build it with the second or even third item and until that half of the game is over.

Beast BrawlerFeb 1, 20191 votes

Perhaps, but at least it would be worse on Lissandra. Besides, I don't even know of any juggs off the top of my head that take Aftershock aside from Volibear. Got any examples?

BigFBearFeb 1, 20191 votes

if u want take it away from Liss why not use what OP said? Make it worse with range champs.

or why not make it dependent on bonus HP, like i said.

Beast BrawlerFeb 2, 20191 votes

It already scales off of bonus HP, and it scaling off of Armor and MR is more fitting than AD and AP. Why not have it scale off of tank stats? I disagree with making it worse on ranged simply because of Thresh, he'd get shat on if it was made to be worse on ranged. However, if it scaled off of HP and defensive stats, it would actually be better for him than currently, same for any other tank.

BigFBearFeb 2, 20191 votes

I am talking about making the Armor and MR depending on bonus HP.

Beast BrawlerFeb 2, 20191 votes

And how do you see that scaling exactly? I think it'd be better if you got some flat resists (but a much smaller amount than currently) and a percentage of bonus armor/mr. The damage should definitely scale off of HP but I think it's more fitting to scale off of defenses.

BigFBearFeb 2, 20191 votes

why? Just give it X Armor/MR for every X bonus HP This would make it bad for squishies but good for Tanks AND bulky champs who dont build much defeses from start on, like Voli. Every champ who can make good use of Aftershock is healthy but not every champ who can make good use of Aftershock is healthy has tons of armor.

Beast BrawlerFeb 4, 20191 votes

Alright I agree with that. What if we have the armor value from it initially proccing scale with %bonus HP so it's not good like at all on squishies and then maybe change the damage to scale off of bonus Armor/MR and not HP at all because it'd do too much damage. Sound good to you? What kind of numbers do you think would be good?

UnvictusFeb 1, 20192 votes

My thoughts exactly! I’m so sick of seeing Galio and Lissandra every game being tanky as hell because of this keystone and still one shotting people.

KFCeytronJan 30, 201910 votes

Rakan Thresh item 3070

AlzonJan 30, 201911 votes

Gooood.

Frog goes mooJan 30, 201911 votes

thresh's play rate is ridiculous enough and rakan usually goes summon aery or guardian I think.

Emo TwinkJan 31, 20193 votes

Rakan goes guardian to make up for the past nerfs and help his laning, thresh needs a hit. Just cuz he doesnt do dmg (he actually ends up doing a fair about imo) ppl dont see him as an issue, but both aftershock and the absurd amount of CC and utility he has makes him unfun to go against.

TobykachuJan 31, 20192 votes

I don't think the nerfs contributed to Rakan taken Guardian over Aftershock, I think people quickly realised that he's not meant to be played as a hyper aggressive support who wants to be in the middle of the enemy team for long and synergises much better Guardian anyway.

Emo TwinkFeb 1, 20191 votes

Ya that too makes sense. Just nerfs made it harder to pull off that aggressive playstyle as well. Guardian is nice.

Daddy AntsJan 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Rakan uses Guardian or Aery.

ZaneShadowJan 30, 20198 votes

honestly, just letting the thing scale off of total resistances would work. Squishy (normally ranged) champs normally have less base and natural scaling resistances, while the intended champions usually have quite a bit. Then the intended champions usually also build more resistances on top of that.

This combination is key: since even squishy champions have access to some pretty high resistance items. Banshee's Veil has 65 mr, while GA has 40 armor and with boots up to 60 bonus armor, the same some fighters or jugernaughts might build. But the difference is that those champions have MUCH higher base resistances.

The issue with this plan is that it was already tried. On RELEASE that was actually how the rune worked. No one took it. I think the meta has shifted in a way where a revert would be apropriate now, where the resistance scaling could be MUCH higher than they were, potentially up to 100% ratios.

Check out this link for a patch history of Aftershock https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Aftershock

MordepoolJan 30, 20196 votes

Riot hire this person

Salvor HardınJan 30, 20193 votes

No, the solution is much simpler. Revert the changes of 8.2:

REMOVED: Armor ratio of 30% armor. Bonus armor increased to 70 − 120 (based on level) from 20 at all levels. REMOVED: Magic resistance ratio of 30% magic resistance. Bonus magic resistance increased to 70 − 120 (based on level) from 20 at all levels.

If you reverse this the rune will be strong only for those who invest in defenses.

saltranJan 30, 20192 votes

Lissandra

0 HogapuJan 30, 201913 votes

nerf aftershock for ranges
Lissandra is balanced

Beast BrawlerJan 31, 20194 votes

Make it scale off of HP Armor and MR instead of HP AD and AP so it's instantly a LOT worse on mages, and also better on tanks.

heroikcJan 30, 20192 votes

Guess no one thought of this because there are not many ranged champions who would go into such ranges...

Rathar DashingJan 30, 20192 votes

Big oof to Thresh

saltranJan 30, 20195 votes

He can get a nerf tbh

Daddy AntsJan 31, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4GtGblr5,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-01-30T19:55:10.313+0000)

Big oof to Thresh

Thresh could take a nerf.

The thigh guyJan 30, 20192 votes

Such a hate boner for ranged champions all the time. :/

Why does EVERYTHING have to be weaker on range champions? They already suffer in base stats, usually have very few defensive steroids.

Rathar DashingJan 30, 201912 votes

Because certain things just wouldn't be balanced on ranged champions. Tiamat, for instance, would give ADCs much better waveclear, and it's cheaper than Runaan's and also can build into Titanic, allowing ADCs to stack health and just sit back. Speaking of health, imagine of a ranged champ could permaslow you by 40% with frozen mallet, that wouldn't be fun. Same thing for Glacial. Rageblade is much harder to get full stacks on, and is therefore given a crutch to help out melee users. Ranged champions could also take advantage of Knight's Vow to heal off of the damage their ADC or jungler deals without having to get close to the fight, or build full damage items, and Relic shield items would be abused by ADCs more to heal and their supports. Champions like Kog'Maw and pretty much every other ADC would abuse Conqueror by being able to constantly have bonus AD and true damage in an extended fight, and ranged champions would be able to stay much safer if they were able to land a free Grasp proc whenever they wanted for the full heal and bonus health amount.

Sire HippingtonJan 30, 201910 votes

They already suffer in base stats

do they though?

Aatrox: Health: 580 – 1940, Armor: 33 – 88.3 MR: 32.1 – 53.4 Akali: Health: 550 – 1995, Armor: 23 – 82.5 MR: 32.1 – 53.4 Ahri: Health: 526 – 2090, Armor: 20.9 – 80.4 MR: 30 – 38.5 Ashe: Health: 539 – 1984, Armor: 26 – 83.8 MR: 30 – 38.5 Amumu: Health: 613.1 – 2041.1, Armor: 33 – 97.6 MR: 32.1 – 53.4

Asides from base ad, ranged champs barly pay in base stats compared to the MASSIVE advantage that range offers

LaurëntJan 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4GtGblr5,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2019-01-30T21:17:43.859+0000)

do they though?

Aatrox: Health: 580 – 1940, Armor: 33 – 88.3 MR: 32.1 – 53.4 Akali: Health: 550 – 1995, Armor: 23 – 82.5 MR: 32.1 – 53.4 Ahri: Health: 526 – 2090, Armor: 20.9 – 80.4 MR: 30 – 38.5 Ashe: Health: 539 – 1984, Armor: 26 – 83.8 MR: 30 – 38.5 Amumu: Health: 613.1 – 2041.1, Armor: 33 – 97.6 MR: 32.1 – 53.4

Asides from base ad, ranged champs barly pay in base stats compared to the MASSIVE advantage that range offers

Yes and no. Looking at mid-late game itemisation, all those melee champs out-stat these ranged champs in term of defensiveness.

SeenanJan 30, 20197 votes

{quoted}

Yes and no. Looking at mid-late game itemisation, all those melee champs out-stat these ranged champs in term of defensiveness.

He was talking about base-stats, not items. Stats without items.

LaurëntJan 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He was talking about base-stats, not items. Stats without items.

Not saying this is the most effective method, but that is simply how they balance melee and ranged champions. The reason why ranged champions tend to out base-stats melee champions is that they have completely different itemization most of the time, if not always. All items that melee champions tend to build add a lot to their defensiveness with bits of offensiveness. Ranged champions get bits of defensiveness from their items, but the main stat attributes are offensive. It's difficult to simply look at base stat alone when itself was designed to go hand-in-hand with itemisation.

FrozenAsheJan 31, 20192 votes

Yeah cause picking an assassin and a champ that has a self ga and insane life steal really proves your point

Shiroe OkazakiJan 31, 20191 votes

So that melee can actually compare to them.

LTK KoRoJan 31, 20191 votes

Because range is the most important BASE STAT in the game probably, rivaled by MS only. Rangeds usually don't even have weaker stats, or at least difference between rangeds and melee stats is less impactful than range difference.

Emo TwinkJan 31, 20192 votes

Liss with aftershock has been the least fun shes been. Hyped for her new passive but because she became meta with aftershock, so much dmg was taken out. Shes just boring, being a CC bot with aftershock. I just want nerfs to aftershock and maybe she can be more fun again w/ full dmg eventually.

Beast BrawlerJan 31, 20192 votes

No, Aftershock just needs to scale off of bonus HP Armor and MR instead of HP AD and AP. Then we won't have Lissandra taking it anymore, and it's better on tanks who are supposed to be the only ones taking it anyways.