why aren't there good mr items

SantanaTheSlick ·Aug 18, 2014·4 votes·1,086 views

i get it you don't want ap champs to be worthless but can you give the people playing agisnt a teemo or an ahri. i really sick of being 1-100 even with mr because all they have to do is build a freaking void staff.

13 Comments

Sneak DogAug 18, 20145 votes

mr items aren't the issue, void staff is, just like last whisper.

Mr items give less mr and add health instead because if you survive an entire spell rotation, the mage is going to be useless until their combo is back up. If you survive an adc combo, he will just shoot you a couple more times. To make mages feel better against tanks, there are no 100 mr items.

However, void staff is op because it is good vs targets with reasonably low mr as well as vs targets with tons of mr. It should be more of a tank counter than a lategame must-buy.

If you want to not be one-shot, buy qss to avoid getting stunlocked and hit, banshee's veil to negate one entire ability in the combo as well as gain a huge amount of mr/health (consider your mr with their sorc boots penetration removed, banshees might just triple your mr?), hexdrinker to gain an insane shield cheap or a plain warmogs+negatron.

SnowFallAug 18, 20142 votes

BRING BACK FON

67chromeAug 18, 20141 votes

BRING BACK FON

Force of Nature was a really irritating item to run into as most AP champions.

Magic Resistance and Armor are already priced cheaper than their AD and AP counterparts in the store, but magic resistance is way cheaper to begin with. Even on the slightly overpriced (compared to base components) Force of Nature, large quantities of Magic Resistance are so cost-effective it let the item more than compete with others that technically offered stats for free.

Consider you need 152 magic resistance to halve incoming magic damage off of the 52 MR base on a level 18 melee champion, and you need an average of ~450 AP to double a typical level 18 mage's full QWER combo, bringing it from ~1100 damage to ~2200. In the most basic sense, 1 MR cancels out 3 AP - so the 55 provided by Spirit Visage currently shuts down ~165 AP, which is more than the 156 Deathcap provides - and Deathcap is notably more expensive, and Visage provides a rather significant chunk of health and regeneration on top of that.

Force of Nature's oppressive 76 MR was the rough equivalent of 228 AP, which is quite frankly absurd. Especially when you consider the average champion has 2000 HP at level 18, and a full level 18 burst rotation backed with 450 AP barely does over 2000 damage. With any MR at all you pretty much remove one-shot potential, with 76 MR you almost completely remove kill potential for the entirity of a standard 3045 minute game.

Force of Nature was also poorly designed - there was no reason not to get it on any tank or fighter. It's not like Locket, Veil, and Visage where you can counteract AoE, Burst, or poke to a reasonable extent without shutting out a class completely with 1 item alone.

SnowFallAug 18, 20142 votes

your math has stupid reasoning now try calculating how much ap would void add then

Earl EulrichAug 19, 20141 votes

completely agree, that Item really made Tanks playable...I´ll always miss FoN and the good old madreds :/ S2 items had been the best.

ProfDrDeathAug 19, 20142 votes

Nostalgia pure :)

However, something I really like about the S2 items, too, was that some of them (or, quite a lot of them) had seemingly random stats that made the items have some kind of side benefit that didn't interfere with their primary powerspike. For example, Lichbane with its MR (and less AP than today - you bought it when you already had a lot of AP, not as a primary AP item), Madred's with its armor, Randuin's with 5% CdR to round out some builds...

ProfDrDeathAug 19, 20141 votes

Not as the FoN from S2, but a good tanky MR item with a bit of mana regen could be a decent idea. Something like this:

Force of Nature:

Forbidden Idol + Negatron Cloak (+ Rejuvenation Bead?)

2600 - 2800 gold range

55-65 MR 12-15 Mp5 (8-12 Hp5) 5-10 MS (nostalgia ftw) 10% CdR

Unique Passive: Generates charges equal to X% of the raw magic damage that hits the user. Max X charges.

Unique Active - Nature's Wrath: 3 Pulses with 2-3 second spacing, medium-sized AoE. Each does X base + X per charge magic damage (charge damage component calculated at the point of the pulse activating). (Basically, an over-time threat effect fitting for tanks, not something for bruisers. Works well in tandem with Randuin's, Sunfire Cape or Frozen Heart)

67chromeAug 18, 20142 votes

Dude, Sunfire Cape and Randuin's Omen only provide 5 more armor than the magic resistance offered by Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil.

I don't see how you could call the massive regen provided by Visage or the spell shield provided by Veil as bad either.

You're also kind of implaying Thornmail is a really good item. It's solid in niche circumstances, but it's not nearly the same kind of useful as Omen, by a pretty long shot.

Also - adding a splash of MR itemization into builds that aren't dedicated tanks is notably easier than adding armor. With AD you have Hexdrinker/Maw of Malmortis, Mercurial Scimitar, and Wit's End to choose from - vs. Atma's Impaler for armor.

Not to mention Health and Magic Resistance accomplish exactly the same thing against the vast majority of AP champions, where armor and health have very distinct interactions with physical damage. Mainly assassins use armor penetration as their chief secondary multiplier and are better countered with health, where life steal is not hit at all by health but reduced by armor in regards to marksman.

Concerning Teemo and Ahri - Veil blocks all the damage and slowing from a Teemo mushroom. You literally take 0 damage from his ultimate if Veil is up.

Ahri does a fairly significant chunk of true damage, so you're generally better focusing on a mix of health and MR to counter her over just stacking Negatron Cloaks. If Force of Nature existed, going with MR items like Spirit Visage, Banshee's Veil, and Locket of the Iron Solari would still be a better idea against Ahri. The only time that wouldn't be true is if you stacked a rather solid chunk of HP to begin with from armor items.

KaineAug 18, 20141 votes

It has not been said, but the after the fight comes into play too. Look at a Zed able to 100-0 someone and an Ahri. That Zed, after succeeding, can chew through towers.

AP Mages have that major trade off for ( in many cases) what little damage advantage they get.

Having a lack of armor itemization essentially makes the entire AP class of mages redundant... Having a lack of MR itemization just keeps strong AD mid champions as situational.

That Ahri cant take three towers and an inhib before you get back up, so she better be able to do the one thing she was designed to.

If you really want to not be 100-0'd get a GA. When you pop back up, the Ahri that just burst your GA has nothing but cooldowns in her bar.

Baron von JigglyAug 19, 20141 votes

ok this is agreeable as currently its pretty bull shit that when i build 180-220 MR almost every ap champ can still burst you down like it doesn't even matter. shit i go galio and still get bursted faster than i can react against most ap carries.

Earl EulrichAug 19, 20141 votes

Itend to agree that 2 dedicated mr-items are a little too less - though your issue is rather connected to another problem...pen is waay too effective. It alreadys showed during S3 that having flat+%pen stacking in such an effective way completely kills tanks (that had been competitive in S2) and everything else that does not aim for oneshoting the opponent...and it just proceeds in S4. The only tanks that are currently played have incredible amounts of %dmg-reduction which doesn´t really suffer as much from opponents ignoring most of their defstats.

I2enegacIeAug 19, 20141 votes

The MR item that I have been looking for is one to use on champions like pantheon with health and mres...and i've been recently using Banshee's veil a lot. They just don't feel as impactful as omen or sunfire. Omen is a MUST HAVE on some champs when building armor....Visage is only a MUST on champions with healing abilities. So what does a champ like wukong or panth build? Banshees? I just think I want another option but I have no idea. Hex drinker is too expensive for what it does and I get no health. Like maybe an item with half the attack damage as hex drinker, the same ability, and some health. This would be awesome!

Sneak DogAug 20, 20141 votes

The hexdrinker shield effectively gives you as much health as it absorbs magic damage. spectre's cowl is a great item already, you don't need to upgrade it immediately.