His Ult Armor Pen really has no place in his kit. People can't itemize against it, as well as he already builds items with Armor Pen, increasing it to ridiculous amounts.
It doesn't fit thematically in any way. Thoughts on removing it in order to allow power in other places in his kit?
Drunken Yasuo53 votesRemove the armor pen from the ult Remove the reduced critical strike damage on Q or reduce it to 10% from 25%
ShadowParker14 votes^When a comment has more upvotes than a thread lmao.
Upvote the thread too so we get visibility.
Meeks0115 votesWhy the downvotes? There's no grand total of your points anywhere, so I don't see why he'd be saying this for personal gain.
Steelflame4 votesActually, there is under your board's Profile.
Hey, don't knock the fake internet points bro. They very important, obviously.
Psychoneirik2 votesI think they should remove his double crit chance passive and make the rest of his kit stronger, or make him scale with crit in a way similar to ashe, such as Q dealing extra damage depending on crit chance, or something like that.
One ayyed king1 votes"way of the wander's critical strike damage penalty with Steel Tempest is 25% instead of 10%, and applies only to the AD portion of the damage." from the lolwiki. so yeah its been that way since yasuo release.
RiotRiotRepertoir32 votesYeah, not entirely sure. I'm sure a reasonable power shift/tradeoff could be made, and I also know a lot of players would like to see it go. Personally, it doesn't offend me all that much because I think a melee guy that doesn't get tanky or go untargetable has to be able to do damage to whatever he can manage to hit, but I do see the point of critics of the mechanic. It's mostly invisible, and it makes it feel like your itemization choices against him aren't meaningful.
One thing to keep in mind is that, if such a power shift were made, it would probably be in a way that felt worse to squishy characters, since the current mechanic has almost no impact on squishies, and replacing that with something else would make him feel more assassin-y. Maybe these squishy guys already feel like Yasuo is an assassin against them, so it would make no difference?
Solidair36 votesThat's the thing, he kills squishies just as fast as if not faster than tanks, ult or no. It often feels like if you get hit by his ult, that's it, because he becomes ridiculously powerful after just two item buys (SS and IE)
Tis a nice day14 voteskills squishies just as fast as if not faster than tanks...
If tanks are dying faster than squishies, something is definitely wrong.
Dr Poro2 votes110% health true damage. Can only be blocked by a shield, but tanks will need a bigger shield.
DorkunedAuras2 votesWho what? Where is 110% hp true damage coming from?
kile1473 votesFiora can technically do that. I think he's just pointing out that %max health true damage can actually kill tanks faster because a shield matters less on them compared to their total health.
Durzaka11 votesThink you misunderstand RiotRepertoir
He is saying any changes would end up being more punishing to squishies in the grand scheme of things.
Solidair34 votesNo no, what I mean is tanks melt fast as if they are squishes. It often feels futile to fight yasuo at any stage of the game as any champ, no matter how much armor you have.
I wrote that post just before bed I didn't articulate my point well
DorkunedAuras2 votesi have yet to be scared of a non-hyper fed yasuo as 
, and everyone should be afraid of a hyper fed assassin.
Narasimha1 votesHonestly, are you sure its not you here? Even with just 2 armor items, most Yasuos try to avoid fighting any bruiser, because they WILL lost that duel. Well, unless the Yasuo is super fed or you're just horribly outmatched. But that's not really Yasuo specific. Tanks will lose in general because it doesn't matter how much armor they have, they don't do any damage in return.
Silents4291 votesThat's the thing, he kills squishies just as fast as if not faster than tanks, ult or no. It often feels like if you get hit by his ult, that's it, because he becomes ridiculously powerful after just two item buys (SS and IE)
Er, As a tank main I have never witnessed this occur to me, Obviously an uber fed Yasuo is a pain in the ass, but in any normal game it's usually comical when a Yasuo ults me, It doesn't do that much damage to tanks, usually a 
is all you need for Yasuo.
Tis a nice day8 votesGiven the topic of the thread I am probably going to get downvoted to oblivion, but personally I think Yasuo's ult with its bonus armor pen is just fine. Thematically it's a bit odd but balance-wise I agree with you in that it allows him to do something against tanks without flat out murdering squishies.
The Yetii Rider8 votesYeah, not entirely sure. I'm sure a reasonable power shift/tradeoff could be made, and I also know a lot of players would like to see it go. Personally, it doesn't offend me all that much because I think a melee guy that doesn't get tanky or go untargetable has to be able to do damage to whatever he can manage to hit, but I do see the point of critics of the mechanic. It's mostly invisible, and it makes it feel like your itemization choices against him aren't meaningful.
One thing to keep in mind is that, if such a power shift were made, it would probably be in a way that felt worse to squishy characters, since the current mechanic has almost no impact on squishies, and replacing that with something else would make him feel more assassin-y. Maybe these squishy guys already feel like Yasuo is an assassin against them, so it would make no difference?
You could just have him only apply the armor penetration against people he actually hits with Last Breath. That way the tanks have the counterplay of "don't get knocked up", which can actually lead to meaningful gameplay and makes the Yasuo player feel rewarded for hitting Qs on champs that he normally couldn't kill.
Hyrum Graff1 votesYou could just have him only apply the armor penetration against people he actually hits with Last Breath. That way the tanks have the counterplay of "don't get knocked up", which can actually lead to meaningful gameplay and makes the Yasuo player feel rewarded for hitting Qs on champs that he normally couldn't kill.
This. If I'm playing a tank, Yas shouldn't be able to melt ME because my teammate couldn't dodge the tornado.
patmax173 votesIIRC the intended role for Yasuo was to stay in the backline, land a Q on the enemy frontline and be able to be a threat to them. Problem is, yasuo comes to the front, throws his Q all the way into the enemy backline and presses R to melt the squishies. Yasuo was not intended as an assassin and should have not be able to reach the enemy backline with his R, but he does. I think this makes it confusing as to what yasuo should be good at and what not. Want to stick with the "melt the tank" idendity? Work on his assassin-y engage. Want to keep his assasin identity? Give him weakness against tanks.
my 2 cents :)
Decrit3 votesI am not an yasuo player, but can i drop this point of view?
When Yasuo was announced i got really hyped because it showed up to be playable like a true samurai: a fist of damage and dervish attacks while being a bit tanky.
I always imagined him to be the kind of dude with an assassin-like early lanes and then went full tank after reaching 100% crit to resist damage in the middle of a teamfight while dealing damage, a bit like fiora now: thanks to his ultimate he could afford to forgo damage and shred his targets and rewarded him for staying in combat.
I did not got him immediately because i was out of IP, then i saw how it became "yet an other assassin" and i got hyped down.
So, in short, to me the armor penetration on his ult is a really important piece of his kit and characterization but has so much front damage that is made less worthwile to stick to a target. Probably is fine lile it is now, probably i am thinking about something that will never be or that is already to be explored, but i would look at other parts of his kit to change.
Voluug137 votesMaybe these squishy guys already feel like Yasuo is an assassin against them, so it would make no difference?
This, and the invisible power problem.
Yasuo is supposed to be an assassin/melee figher mix.
He should be in theory weak to tanks, or least he should be controlled by tanks and tankier enemies like Swain, Lissandra and Malzahar.
Currently one of the reasons of why he was so overwhelming is that he can reach the game's biggest armor pen, and thus extremely binary. Either he gets ahead and can survive teamfights while killing everything, or he is a glorified support with some damage that gets instawiped for daring to fight not ultra fed enough.
Team composition make this worse or better. Combo Wombo too stronk.
manbearswine3 votes{quoted} Maybe these squishy guys already feel like Yasuo is an assassin against them, so it would make no difference?
If rengar has taught us anything,it's that it can always be worse.
there's a very big difference between dying in 0.5 seconds and 0.75 seconds.
Sneak Dog4 votesI like the light fighter identity of Yasuo much more than the assassin. He is only an assassin because auto-attacks scale insanely well in LoL, even against squishies, and Yasuo can reach the backline with ult. For the light fighter identity, Yasuo needs to be able to touch tanks and the penetration lets him, similarly to how Fiora deals true damage.
If I were to nerf Yasuo, I'd reduce the range on the ultimate. It's silly.
Sire Hippington2 votesIf i recall right, Yasuo was intended as melee-carry, so a primary damagedealer that kinda fills the role off an adc(and with his kit he actually is able to go botlane instead of an adc), and with rather low range mobillity(if you have no setup for the ult) and beeing melee, he needs to get some tankiness to do something in teamfights, so so beeing able to deal with tanks seems needed for him as he usually can'tafford the itemslot for a LW. Maybe 50% bonus is to much and a total pen would be better as it wouldn't mean building armor vs yasuo feels totally usless...
Anyway, i personally think Yasuo would be a more interesting and health champ if the crit was removed from him and therefor the nerfs to his shield get undone, maybe with a small ratio buff to his Q. This would translate to a less frustraiting powerspike(
+
is quite overbearing on him), and he wouldn't fuction as an assasin by bursting down squishy befor they touch the gound with the Q+R+AA+Q combo anymore, relying more on sustained damage and his mobillity paired with his shield.
Another wierd thing is that he gets the pen after his ult, though he usually deals with tanks till he uses the ult, as usually the ult is his acces to the squishy backline. this leads to the feel that his ult mostly prohibits getting armor on squishy to counter his burst. If you face talon or Zed, you usually get an early seekers as mage, and a zhonya later on, and you feel good about it. As adc, you often would want a GA, or even a randuins as it's the most efficient single-def item vs physical damge, and with an ad-midlaner, chances are that the enemie team is very ad-heavy. Vs Yasuo, those defensive options feel bad as he gets the 50% pen whenever he finds an engage...
BakedLotion1 votesYeah, not entirely sure. I'm sure a reasonable power shift/tradeoff could be made, and I also know a lot of players would like to see it go. Personally, it doesn't offend me all that much because I think a melee guy that doesn't get tanky or go untargetable has to be able to do damage to whatever he can manage to hit, but I do see the point of critics of the mechanic. It's mostly invisible, and it makes it feel like your itemization choices against him aren't meaningful.
One thing to keep in mind is that, if such a power shift were made, it would probably be in a way that felt worse to squishy characters, since the current mechanic has almost no impact on squishies, and replacing that with something else would make him feel more assassin-y. Maybe these squishy guys already feel like Yasuo is an assassin against them, so it would make no difference?
He's already an assassin to squishies. His autos do a shit ton of damage because of the 100% crit chance. He kills squishies in like less than 2 secs.
Not Katarina1 votesI agree with this completely.
sp4411 votesWait, hold a second there, you're telling me that Yasuo ISN'T an Assassin?
JustBoneBrook1 votesYeah, not entirely sure. I'm sure a reasonable power shift/tradeoff could be made, and I also know a lot of players would like to see it go. Personally, it doesn't offend me all that much because I think a melee guy that doesn't get tanky or go untargetable has to be able to do damage to whatever he can manage to hit, but I do see the point of critics of the mechanic. It's mostly invisible, and it makes it feel like your itemization choices against him aren't meaningful.
One thing to keep in mind is that, if such a power shift were made, it would probably be in a way that felt worse to squishy characters, since the current mechanic has almost no impact on squishies, and replacing that with something else would make him feel more assassin-y. Maybe these squishy guys already feel like Yasuo is an assassin against them, so it would make no difference?
Well i think flat armor pen would wrork well (somethink like if the enemie have more than 150 armor it worst but if they have less it better? 75 flast armor pen?
Dissith Bullets9 votesWhy are you building armor pen on yasuo when he gets plenty from his ult? build more lifesteal instead.
Finn Teh Human8 votesI don't really play Yasuo but I feel like he's good where he's at. His ult is unique, and to be honest, when he's behind that's really the only good thing in his kit. Not to mention he needs a knockup in order to use his ult. So if he doesn't have a team built around him he might not even get the chance to ult.
ShadowParker5 votesI'm not saying remove the ult, it's quite unique. I'm saying remove the armor pen that follows in order for strengths in other areas.
iTams15 votesWindwall not good when behind
Ok then
Finn Teh Human3 votesDAMAGE wise.
Tilt Thru Time10 voteswindwall is never good damage wise
ErrantLord7 votesWhat armor pen items are you building? Standard yas is Shiv/IE/BoRK/Boots into whatever defensive items you need the most
Mongoose2 votesi usually go lw but if im going toplane i go bork phantom dancer youmuu IE
Sire Hippington1 votesthats a really poor built. replace PD with SS or Trinity(and i prefer Hydra or BT over BotrK) PD+Ymuu already is 100%crit on him, so the 20%(40% for yasuo) from IE are wasted. With SS/trinity instead Of PD, you waste less/no stats. Or with another item instead of Yomuu....
Mongoose1 votesyea i got my builds mixed up
my toplane build is bork phantom dancer IE and defensive items
my midlane build is the regular ss IE and i get bork if i cant get berserkers greaves, but i sometimes get youmuus at the end to max out my crit and give me armorpen
warpenguin5555 votestbh im fine with yasuo right now, but if he gets a nerf, this would be what i want. he really doesnt need armor pen on his ult, and tbh i forgot he even had it
Lotus Blade2 voteshe doesnt need armor pent on his ult? do u even yasuo m8
Transgressor5 votesHow about removing his cancer double crit passive? Pretty sure it's removal would allow for serious buffs and power redistribution, and he'll be less toxic to lane against.
Salron4 votesRemoving his armor pen would force him to build LW which means he would only be able to build 1 defensive item lategame Unless you gave him ridiculous buffs(that would probably break him against Squishies), this would just end up being a net nerf
Sohleks4 votesWhen Yasuo was really, really strong [not saying he is not now] that armor pen would have been one of the things I'd wanted to delete. It gives him a real good itemization advantage not having to build last whisper, and it snowballs him hard if fed because of that itemization advantage.
But I think it's intended he can afford extra durability late game; more so I think it has a good purpose of allowing not fed out of the wazzo Yasuo's to fight actively in fights and not be a scared little assassin looking for openings into the backline, which will be more how he works without the armor penetration. It encourages him to play a little more like a melee dps champ fighter champs rather than assassin is the intention of it; but does it actually work or merely overload his kit making fed Yasuo unstoppable..? (Yasuo's best case is still ulting carries...)
Yasuo can probably be more balanced without it, and it'll take the edge off his snowballing without it. But it'll cement him into only looking for openings to carries until he can afford LW, which is what he wants to do anyways though. So maybe it would serve well to move power elsewhere. And then it'll feel like Yasuo has a lot more counterplay than "use a burst champion to shut his laning phase down"
redniwediS3 votesI don't have a strong feeling either way about the armor pen, however I did still upvote. I would love to see what Repertoir or Riot think on this subject.
Nameless Voice3 votesUh, what are these "other strengths" you propose to give him? Do you want him to completely invalidate projectile-based mages even harder?
Minuano2 votesWho do you think this is a change that needs to happen?
Earl Eulrich1 votespeople won´t itmeize armor in the near future anyway...so all you propose here would be a net buff for most practical purposes.
JustBoneBrook1 votesI think armor pen fit yasuo them (wind) But i dont think it should be a % of bonnus armor
I think it sould be flat amont like 