A little about Riven

Mira Arya Enthe··53 votes·3,317 views

"Riven has 'four' mobility skills."

Riven has two. One is chopped into three segments. And each individual leap is very short, and also part of her damaging and tanking combo. Plus unlike much longer jumps, she can just barely leap certain walls with the last Q. All in all it does make her dodging during a fight strong, but for pure mobility it lacks the range and easy wall clearing of almost any other leap.

"Riven's shield scales off of her damage stat."

So does every AP caster with a shield. Many characters have a survivability talent that scales off of their primary stat.

"Riven does too much damage."

See almost every fighter or assassin in the game. Or every AP burst mage. She is a squishy, fighter/assassin. I'd expect as much.

"Why did they buff Riven?"

LCS. She doesn't do well there most of the time. Or really in challenger at all. You have to be insanely skilled and have the right team comp to make her effective in high levels. Even then when she cannot get kills she starves.

"Why didn't they buff Aatrox instead?"

He needs a full rework. Which isn't a good idea this late in the season. Remember the Juggernaut update?

"Riven players are always(confirmation bias) toxic. She doesn't deserve buffs."

We don't balance champions based on common(not absolute) player behavior. Or Nami would be the most OP champion in League. Followed by Braum and Janna.

"You are bronze."

Yes, and as a Bronze noobie who usually loses lane to Riven. I still understand she was in a rough spot in LCS and needed a buff, even if temporary, to compete.

I main Shyvana, Ashe, Leona and Malz as my mastery and match history shows. But I've been trying Riven out so I better understand how to play against her. And all this hatred for the poor character, hype over a minor buff focused on LCS, and extreme bias against all the people who play her. Is insane.

I understand. She is frustrating to lane against. I agree there. But permanently overpowered and never deserving or needing buffs? No. I don't even condemn Zed to that.

EDIT: And honestly I agree with people commenting here. The most toxic players are usually "flavor of the month" players. If a champion becomes strong or popular they all jump on it. Then get mad when it doesn't fulfill their fantasy. Then move to the next flavor. So any champion with a long streak of being strong will have Toxic "mains" but they usually are not actual "mains".

114 Comments

Ralanr33 votes

I personally just don't like it when she's baseline strong. A kit with that much outplay and play making potential should be (IMO) weak in base strength to encourage her players to utilize her play making potential.

Nothing aggravates me more than her spamming her abilities with no rhyme or reason and still getting a kill. It's frustrating enough to punish her for her kit alone.

Restless Slumber4 votes

The buff didn't even do that much to her, the only time that buff really matters is teamfighting with her. Otherwise, she probably woulda killed you with prebuff windslash in a 1v1.

Ralanr13 votes

True. Which is probably why I'm not as hesitant about this as I originally was.

I still don't like fighting Riven, but I'll admit she has had a really bad season and needed something.

Really I'm just afraid of the return of the toxic Riven main. I want that community dead and buried

Rossendale2 votes

{quoted}

True. Which is probably why I'm not as hesitant about this as I originally was.

I still don't like fighting Riven, but I'll admit she has had a really bad season and needed something.

Really I'm just afraid of the return of the toxic Riven main. I want that community dead and buried

Basically this. I hate Riven and her playerbase just as much as the next guy but I realize that she has been pretty awful for a very long time now.

Apocalypsic7 votes

{quoted}

True. Which is probably why I'm not as hesitant about this as I originally was.

I still don't like fighting Riven, but I'll admit she has had a really bad season and needed something.

Really I'm just afraid of the return of the toxic Riven main. I want that community dead and buried

A lot of the Rivens that played all through season six are the dedicated ones, and also probably not very toxic.

I think the most toxic players in the game are flavor of the month players, because they just expect freelo and when it doesn't happen they explode.

Ralanr6 votes

Yeah. After Riven they went to Fiora and Yi. Now I don't know where they are.

Apocalypsic6 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. After Riven they went to Fiora and Yi. Now I don't know where they are.

During his height, GP for sure. But they're toning him down and I expect them to move on to newer pastures.

Ralanr9 votes

Possibly Yorick, but he isn't flashy enough. They seem to like pretty shiny things.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

{quoted}

True. Which is probably why I'm not as hesitant about this as I originally was.

I still don't like fighting Riven, but I'll admit she has had a really bad season and needed something.

Really I'm just afraid of the return of the toxic Riven main. I want that community dead and buried

You cannot punish everyone who drives a specific type of car just because a large number of those drivers are rude to people at drivethroughs.

I agree. Toxic players are annoying. But honestly, part of that is confirmation bias. It is a commonly held opinion that all Riven players are toxic. The mind looks for proof of that.

Honestly I see mostly equal levels of toxicity on all champions. Only slightly reduced or increased on some. We cannot balance based on player behavior.

Ralanr6 votes

Sadly this is true. I wish we could do something, but in the end the community doesn't do enough to cut away the toxicity.

bony whimsark4 votes

nah dude. I recently saw a game where riven would had died and my lee sin got the kill but the buffed windslash killed him. Riven survived with one auto's worth of hp. Sure, small sample size, but it's butt clenchers like that, that are the most annoying.

Supreme Senpai693 votes

To be fair that's the buff's intended purpose. If her ultimate never barely killed someone while it wouldn't have killed them before the buff would be useless. It shouldn't happen often but it should happen

Apocalypsic4 votes

{quoted}

I personally just don't like it when she's baseline strong. A kit with that much outplay and play making potential should be (IMO) weak in base strength to encourage her players to utilize her play making potential.

Nothing aggravates me more than her spamming her abilities with no rhyme or reason and still getting a kill. It's frustrating enough to punish her for her kit alone.

But you can't even spam her abilities without rhyme or reason.

If you did that, without understanding her kit or how to play her to her potential, I promise you will lose to all but the literal worst players.

Ralanr6 votes

Remember that this is from the perspective of her opponent.

I don't have delusions of grandeur that I'm great. I'm one of those players (or used to be) that Riven could be without her brain.

At least now I have some semblance on how to beat her. It usually involves keeping her still while I bash her skull in.

Apocalypsic4 votes

{quoted}

Remember that this is from the perspective of her opponent.

I don't have delusions of grandeur that I'm great. I'm one of those players (or used to be) that Riven could be without her brain.

At least now I have some semblance on how to beat her. It usually involves keeping her still while I bash her skull in.

So what you're saying is as Sion, you just walk up and yell.

"U WOT M8, BASH YE FOCKIN HEAD IN I WILL"

Ralanr4 votes

Walk up? Heavens no.

I wait for her to come in like a fucking rat and bring down my axe like a mousetrap.

It's risky, but timing is everything.

Iwinatlife423 votes

Or play swain and it is super easy

Kaioko2 votes

{quoted}

I personally just don't like it when she's baseline strong. A kit with that much outplay and play making potential should be (IMO) weak in base strength to encourage her players to utilize her play making potential.

Nothing aggravates me more than her spamming her abilities with no rhyme or reason and still getting a kill. It's frustrating enough to punish her for her kit alone.

I would agree but the way she's been right now I don't see her at all in the higher ELOs due to players understanding how to not be outplayed. She definitely needed a little something.

The Deckowner10 votes

they didn't buff her for lcs, they buffed her for championship riven re-release, it's all about the money.

Guy Fox Teemo3 votes

Tin-Foil hat conspiracy's at there finest.

Rossendale8 votes

I think most of the playerbase just has PTSD from back when she was basically the best toplaner in the game.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

{quoted}

I think most of the playerbase just has PTSD from back when she was basically the best toplaner in the game.

Gangplank Irelia Fiora Irelia Yi Irelia Riven Irelia Irelia

:3

Ralanr8 votes

I still have instant tilt when seeing an Irelia. That fucking stun...

LappaDanielson7 votes

Pick Garen, kill riven, riven player afks. Ez pz

Nami in Bush7 votes

having 4 dashes makes her practically immune to slowing effects, while at the same time having 2 hard cc's, and a shield that is up every 4 seconds to allow turret diving and free trades at low levels.

I didnt even say she was broken, all I did was describe her.

Mira Arya Enthe9 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Urgot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40bdsAPK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-25T19:03:59.061+0000)

having 4 dashes makes her practically immune to slowing effects, while at the same time having 2 hard cc's, and a shield that is up every 4 seconds to allow turret diving and free trades at low levels.

I didnt even say she was broken, all I did was describe her.

Having a 1000 range guided auto attack, on a character with an armor shred, who has a huge ass shield on him, builds similar to an ADC, can suppress an enemy and gain bonus defensive stats, on top of an AoE dot, movement speed. I didn't say Urgot was broken, I just described him.

I could write a description of any champions abilities and make them seem OP. Try it in practice. I dare you, play your next 5-10 ranked games as Riven if she is so broken.

Nami in Bush5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40bdsAPK,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-08-25T20:26:43.769+0000)

Having a 1000 range guided auto attack, on a character with an armor shred, who has a huge ass shield on him, builds similar to an ADC, can suppress an enemy and gain bonus defensive stats, on top of an AoE dot, movement speed. I didn't say Urgot was broken, I just described him.

I could write a description of any champions abilities and make them seem OP. Try it in practice. I dare you, play your next 5-10 ranked games as Riven if she is so broken.

all auto attacks are guided, suppress does no dmg

Urgot is broken, but nobody knows it.

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Urgot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40bdsAPK,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T20:35:07.821+0000)

all auto attacks are guided, suppress does no dmg

Urgot is broken, but nobody knows it.

Urgot is broken, but not overpowered. He is broken in the way old poppy was, as in, annoyingly OP as hell sometimes, worthless all the rest of the time. No, he is not good. And naming a bunch of info about a champion does not state them being strong. I could make a huge list that sounds impressive out of the lowest win rate champions in the game. Again, go play Riven. People always claim x is overpowered, then they get on it and lose 7/10 games and suddenly when they understand how the champion works, they no longer are scared of it.

Nami in Bush2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40bdsAPK,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T20:40:37.807+0000)

Urgot is broken, but not overpowered. He is broken in the way old poppy was, as in, annoyingly OP as hell sometimes, worthless all the rest of the time. No, he is not good. And naming a bunch of info about a champion does not state them being strong. I could make a huge list that sounds impressive out of the lowest win rate champions in the game. Again, go play Riven. People always claim x is overpowered, then they get on it and lose 7/10 games and suddenly when they understand how the champion works, they no longer are scared of it.

Then why do I maintain a 58% win rate as Urgot in ranked as my most played :)

Riven is a champion with high defensive abilities, high mobility, high damage, 2 hard CC abilities, free %AD, and a ranged execute ult. That's what she is. Her kit is stupid.

Gregor Gysi3 votes

You are wrong. Riven got 1 defensive ability and not several. Her long range movement is slower than Udyr, her engage is slower than basically any assassin only her in fight movement is actually high. Her hard CC is very short in total, it's basically interrupts. One of those interrupts is extremely easy to interrupt aswell which means it offers outplay potential aka counterplay. "Free" is such an awesome description, you could add it to anything. Irelia got "free" true damage. Great. What does it mean? Nothing, but it surely sounds nice. And yes, Riven has got an ultimate with mediocre cooldown and a slow projectile. She invests a huge amount of gold into CD which means that she got all her basic abilities up all the time - which also means she loses a huge amount of power (gold) when CCd - compared to eg Talon who uses all his skills and doesn't really care if he gets CCd afterwards.

Riven got no true damage, no % damage to deal with tanks (ult is %missing and not a proper trading tool to wear down tanks), no range skills to cs when zoned, no escape after her all-in which is quite bad for an assassin, plays bad when behind (that's why Riven feeds so often, even those OTP challenger Riven players have some games in which they feed).

KoKoboto5 votes

Bad argument, it's not even a ranged auto attack and it's not even a huge ass shield and urgot DEFINETLY doesn't build similar to an adc and none of his abilities grant him movement speed. You dirty liar.

Evewynn7 votes

Very valid points. Now, if I may retort:

Fuck Riven.

OxyPoro7 votes

Riven needs a full rework as badly as Aatrox, her kit is every bit as toxic, even when she's balanced she's overbearing to deal with.

Wyrmblade2 votes

Yeah she's not hard to deal with, but having to play so cautiously is really damn boring.

KoKoboto4 votes

Just pick Jayce into Riven

Oelyk4 votes

If people don't like riven... I'm surprised theirs not Jayce hate... He's kinda the anti fun lane unless your olaf(aka riven's reneckton)

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lazy cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40bdsAPK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-08-25T20:53:40.954+0000)

If people don't like riven... I'm surprised theirs not Jayce hate... He's kinda the anti fun lane unless your olaf(aka riven's reneckton)

People hate Riven because about two years ago she was accidentally made way too overpowered. And like the recent Ashe fiasco they let it go on for too long. Combine that with the fact that she is mechanically challenging, meaning more of the people playing her will feel frustrated or awesome for doing bad/good on her. And it means more of her players were toxic, just like Azir, Vayne, Yasou. Etc. Because hard champions make you feel great when you do well, and terrible when everyone sees your mistake. This resulted in her getting a terrible reputation. And people then assumed that meant she should never be strong or get anything again.

KoKoboto4 votes

Riven can REALLY abuse lifesteal unlike Jayce, giving her a surprising amount of "tankyness" which I think is annoying. + When a Riven is 4/0 she can AoE wipe out your team while Jayce can't really do that.

Saianna2 votes

Even though Jayce can really mess you up, his scalling are spread across AD, AP and hybrid. Imagine if all of Jayces attacks scalled with AD.. He'd be called Riven 2.0

Oelyk1 votes

with this patch, his only AP is his hammer w, everything else is AD scaleing, even if some do magic dmage(hammer e and r auto.)

Saianna1 votes

still it's a hybrid damage. Unless ofc you see Jayce building void staff ;P

I'm still kinda sad, that Riot is so scared to make Jayce AP viable.. He could have been quite fun.. Kinda lame ;(

Oelyk1 votes

Ap Jayce would be thematically rediculous

besides his shock blast and hammer w it's just dumb

Leonerdo3 votes

Well said, well formatted. Good post. Boards posters take notes on this.

GrReaper963 votes

On another note Riven is the only champion with an ad scaling shield

Shynkle4 votes

Kled's ult shield scales with AD

Keìron5 votes

that's an ultimate, not a low cooldown ability

Shynkle2 votes

So? Riven isn't the only champion with an AD scaling shield, what you said was still incorrect.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

It's not 4 dashes, but it's still 4 charges at mobility which makes her infight mobility very high and hard to gank. Also statistics prove she was balanced and didn't need buffs. https://champion.gg/champion/Riven

Dabrick013 votes

I love your points and then way you organized everything.

It is too bad that a Yasuo page would not be as well received as this.

ARequestOfDeath2 votes

time to review this post

She does have 2 dash abilities one of them being put in 3 parts but the thing is that they have so short a cooldown between the dashes it gets a lil bit overwhelming with the cancelling.

The shield comment is true but here is one thing. it has the strongest scaling out of any shield ability that is not a ultimate being a 100% bonus ad, but it can have a cooldown of 4 seconds which is short for a shield of that strength.

She does a lot of damage but the thing is if she is that mobile and has a strong shield, why does she have a stun that also has a 100% bonus ad scaling?

I agree with her being buffed for the lcs.

Aatrox does need the huge level rework to be what he is in the lore, heck make him the 1st ad support character.

I agree that toxicity does not equal balance.

I am also bronze so this comment will be flooded with downvotes.

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