Which Dev has a hardon for Yas?

Dope Solo·Aug 25, 2017·30 votes·1,695 views

I'm convinced one of you is cock-blocking a return to fair gameplay.

71 Comments

Packun FlowerAug 25, 201718 votes

That would be CertainlyToxic. He is Yasuo's designer and has a notorious reputation for creating unbalanced and unfun champions.

It took a alot of public outcry to get him off the champ design team and he is probably one of the most hated Riot employees to date. Its the reason he does not come around the forums anymore.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 201729 votes

CertainlyT, isn't a bad designer, he's created some of the most unique and fun to play champions we have to date.

If anything it's the balance they take when making these champions then people give CertainlyT shit for it for some reason.

CertainlyT, champion designer.

Meddler, balance team member.

See how that works.

Not to mention CertainlyT worked on the Warwick rework and damn is he fun to play and look that didn't turn out "toxic".

Very Hard EngageAug 25, 20174 votes

unique =/= fits.

otherwise why not a squirrel based champ yet who "climbs trees" or "all over the map nuts fall for players to pick up" as his gimick. there are plenty of animal based champs and map interaction passives.

yasuo has never been fair, nor probably ever will, its either he reaches your face which is incredibly easy to do, and he kills you, or he doesn't kill you. either way hes OP or gutter. his targeted abilities leave for very little interaction for your opponent other than keep 900 range away and let your bruiser engage on him first due to his sheer value of eating your CC with windwall or using a no CD ability (dash) to "mechanics wowowo im so great"

Príncess DianaAug 25, 201710 votes

But Warwick IS a good champion, though. He has his niche, he has a unique, balanced, and fun kit. His thing isn't just being "unique".

AazzlanoAug 25, 20172 votes

I don't think passively giving him 330% attack speed and 165% movement speed vs low hp targets is really fun and interactive gameplay. Or him having an 8 second ghost for 55% move speed which also reveals the nearest target if you are within 4000 units of him lmao. That's not even counting the fact that he gets that globally, passively, for free if anyone on the map is under half health. And it also reveals them too. Counterplay.

Balanced or not the design of the champion is still bullshit. It's not creative or unique to just jam everything you can think of into a champion and give them 5 passives. That's just overloaded.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20174 votes

Say what you want about the man but he's creates some of the more higher skill cap champions we have Zed, Kalista, Yasuo, Thresh

ninjaroxasAug 25, 20173 votes

But also the most complained about ones

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20175 votes

Because most people would rather spend their time creating salt threads instead of learning how to play against a certain match up.

ninjaroxasAug 25, 20173 votes

See i don't see that reasoning. Just because someone doesn't like a champion doesn't mean they cant play agaisnt them

Sorin AlucardAug 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

See i don't see that reasoning. Just because someone doesn't like a champion doesn't mean they cant play agaisnt them

I second that on Riven. That's a lot of practice required to seriously main her

AazzlanoAug 26, 20171 votes

Implying literally any of those are healthy. And yeah, when you give each champ 4 passives and multiple parts on every ability the skill cap is going to be higher. If you gave a champ 10 abilities the skill cap would be higher, doesn't mean it's fair or balanced.

DoktorKaiserAug 25, 20173 votes

Fun for you (because overloaded), cancer for everyone else. Keep him away from this game pls. And fire the balance team, I literally stopped playing after 7 years, its really sad...

Sorin AlucardAug 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Fun for you (because overloaded), cancer for everyone else. Keep him away from this game pls. And fire the balance team, I literally stopped playing after 7 years, its really sad...

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

SEKAIAug 25, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3tlPtvhP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-08-25T02:59:30.671+0000)

CertainlyT, isn't a bad designer, he's created some of the most unique and fun to play champions we have to date.

If anything it's the balance they take when making these champions then people give CertainlyT shit for it for some reason.

CertainlyT, champion designer.

Meddler, balance team member.

See how that works.

Not to mention CertainlyT worked on the Warwick rework and damn is he fun to play and look that didn't turn out "toxic".

Unique?

Almost all of his champs are thematically the epitome of generic (I mean seriously, just look at their core characteristics) and are lesser/less-interesting recreation of other EXISTING champs (I'll get to this in the next point).
They often outright STEAL champion design inspiration from other fellow Riot designers, and not only that they design those "knockoff" champs on the basis of being objectively better/more loaded than the sources they "borrowed" them from (see Darius, Yasuo, Kalista and Thresh... hang on, that's almost all of their creations).
They have absolutely no check for balance and just overload the shit out of their designs hence why ALL champs they'd made/remade barring 1 have all been balance nightmares where most have been reworked or in the process to be by other designers.
And the "unique and fun" gameplay allegedly attributed by CT is really just spamming and generally being unfair by definition to the opponents as well as being INHERENTLY UNBALANCEABLE (which is why they rework his almost all of his champs; it's less about fault of the balance team but more about CT's champs being fundamentally not possible to balance without outright remaking them).

Just because 1 of the reworks (which really wasn't that big of change from original, it did change the champ from being an AS draintank to a chaser-ish bruiser champ tho) didn't end up as a balance apocalypse as their creations usually do, doesn't suddenly elevate their terrible reputation as a game designer who knows absolutely no bounds nor limits in design, is terrible at genuine creativity, and all of their champs were obnoxious and require other people to fix it for them but somehow they take the credit in the end.

Hell, if the story were to go by: Originally CT was meant to be put in charge in the design of Azir, but they rage-quitted after hearing that Azir is meant to be a sand-mage of sort, because they couldn't for the life of them, figure out what sand is supposed to represent/be associated to in games, as to them according to the quote of their rage-quit, Ice = slow and Fire = damage was pretty much almost the extent of their creativity. I DO NOT BELIEVE that a designer with this level of mental flexibility is capable of creating an actually fun and unique champion, and their history shows.

CertainlyT is really not a good game designer, at least not now. They really need to step up their game.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 25, 20173 votes

Well you pretty much said what i wanted to said way better. ty.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Unique?

Almost all of his champs are thematically the epitome of generic (I mean seriously, just look at their core characteristics) and are lesser/less-interesting recreation of other EXISTING champs (I'll get to this in the next point).

They often outright STEAL champion design inspiration from other fellow Riot designers, and not only that they design those "knockoff" champs on the basis of being objectively better/more loaded than the sources they "borrowed" them from (see Darius, Yasuo, Kalista and Thresh... hang on, that's almost all of their creations).

Okay yes, that's their gimmick but what does that have to do with the champion itself?

They have absolutely no check for balance and just overload the shit out of their designs hence why ALL champs they'd made/remade barring 1 have all been balance nightmares where most have been reworked or in the process to be by other designers.

And the "unique and fun" gameplay allegedly attributed by CT is really just spamming and generally being unfair by definition to the opponents as well as being INHERENTLY UNBALANCEABLE (which is why they rework his almost all of his champs; it's less about fault of the balance team but more about CT's champs being fundamentally not possible to balance without outright remaking them).

There's only been two champions that have been updated (not reworked) thus far, which were both Darius and Zyra, even when compared to their old kit it wasn't that much of a difference, sure both of these champions were strong after their rework but after a small adjustment to their kits they are both in a fine spot, which is why I said the champion design itself isn't much of an issue it's small things that can be tweaked or changed that make playing against them more satisfying.

Just because 1 of the reworks (which really wasn't that big of change from original, it did change the champ from being an AS draintank to a chaser-ish bruiser champ tho) didn't end up as a balance apocalypse as their creations usually do, doesn't suddenly elevate their terrible reputation as a game designer who knows absolutely no bounds nor limits in design, is terrible at genuine creativity, and all of their champs were obnoxious and require other people to fix it for them but somehow they take the credit in the end.

Yes one didn't turn out as bad, but considering people have said he's incapable of making a proper champion and all of his champions have turned out to be a complete cluster fuck, it should show the he's stepping in the right direction of creating a champion that is fun to play while keeping it as balanced as possible. Sure if he had a shitty reputation priory to that one champion doesn't erase all that but it should show maybe that he's stepping in the right direction.

Hell, if the story were to go by: Originally CT was meant to be put in charge in the design of Azir, but they rage-quitted after hearing that Azir is meant to be a sand-mage of sort, because they couldn't for the life of them, figure out what sand is supposed to represent/be associated to in games, as to them according to the quote of their rage-quit, Ice = slow and Fire = damage was pretty much almost the extent of their creativity. I DO NOT BELIEVE that a designer with this level of mental flexibility is capable of creating an actually fun and unique champion, and their history shows.

CertainlyT is really not a good game designer, at least not now. They really need to step up their game.

So trying to step out of the box makes you a bad designer? But that's my beliefs

SEKAIAug 27, 20171 votes

That's incorrect, among CT's creations, Zyra, Darius, Kalista have all been updated, and Yasuo is just about to receive his in the very near future. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that Thresh is only refrained from being targeted because the old Lee-Syndrome-LCS problem. This means their champs have a 100% rate of being fundamentally changed/reworked as opposed to simply being balanced numerically like most other champs; even without counting Thresh that's still 4 out of a total of 5 champs they'd made, it's staggering.

Rework wise, Morde is also being slowly reverted, too.

It's not even like those champs are very old and thus are updated accordingly. No, not really. They were updated relatively to very soon after their creation because those champs are troubles at a core level, hence a core change was demanded. And this happens almost for EVERY SINGLE CREATION THEY'D MADE.

All of this points to the fact they only make champs who are fundamentally broken, that can not be meaningfully balanced without outright touching the actual design of their champs as opposed to numerical changes and minor additions or elimination. It is a VERY bad sign.

So trying to step out of the box makes you a bad designer?

There is a big difference between stepping out of the box and making terrible decisions again and again. It is "thinking outside of the box" to point a loaded pistol at my head to take a selfie, but that doesn't imply great intelligence (as per the message of the phrase) at all. See the point?

Thinking outside of the box is something for example the designer of Ivern and Ornn does, changing up the game with introduction of radical differences in champ design to existing play patterns and strategies, but at no expense to everybody else (at least they tried to), and that's how it works. CT on the other hand is a "power-gamer" who designs on the basis of "making the very best", a selfish way of making things that only ensures everybody will be playing their champs with very little regard to the collective health of the game by specifically design towards the "end-point". Not to mention, all of their champs are shockingly meta-specific, and can be easily seen to be all be attempts to be THE meta champs, so I really fail to see how they even "think outside of the box" as a whole; I never agreed with the public notion that always claim CT is a visionary of sort and a creative designer, because all of their designs are all utterly unimaginative both thematically and gameplay wise if you just get a clue on some reference points, which you'd quickly realise they just get a bunch of things (which many are stolen from their fellow coworkers at that too, I'll get to it) and jam it all into a box without any consideration or restraint, and somehow that's creative? I highly disagree.

Not only that, all of CT's champs pride themselves fundamentally unfair by default, hence why all of their champs were mini-reworked on this very basis. They often lacked team interactions and were either self contained mini-teams themselves, or they would be the one to demand other players (both allies and opponents) to react to them but not the other way around. CT's champs also often ravel in ambiguous weaknesses and vague counterplay options or flat out have none and the champ can not be meaningfully played against beyond the players themselves making mistakes. Their design philosophy is again, "selfish" to say the least; even the likes of Yi and Nasus are teamplayers in comparison to their champs, that's how bad it is.

Another point I also hammer on why CT is a bad designer is that their champs with the exception of Zyra (but that's because it was a co-project), were straight up copies, reiteration and upgrades (by that I mean, literal upgrades, who do better with less weaknesses) of another EXISTING champion in the very same game. I mean, holy shit, Darius, Kalista, Yasuo and Thresh, just look at their kits and general design philosophy, who are all obvious imitations of the OTHER original champs while attempting to out-do and invalidate the said originals (reasons mentioned above). I'm surprised that we don't hear about Rioters going into war with this. That's just flat out bad on so many levels. Why do this?

.........................

CT at the current stage as I currently know them (unless they redeem and prove otherwise, which I dearly hope that's gonna happen, but hasn't really), is NOT a good designer, or at least he isn't one for this game due to the various critical flaws I'd pointed out in the posts. I went into details on a few of the points I'd said in the previous reply, but the general gist of the argument remains the same.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's incorrect, among CT's creations, Zyra, Darius, Kalista have all been updated, and Yasuo is just about to receive his in the very near future. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that Thresh is only refrained from being targeted because the old Lee-Syndrome-LCS problem. This means their champs have a 100% rate of being fundamentally changed/reworked as opposed to simply being balanced numerically like most other champs; even without counting Thresh that's still 4 out of a total of 5 champs they'd made, it's staggering.

Kalista was never reworked, and both Lee Sin and Thresh are in poor conditions right now.

Rework wise, Morde is also being slowly reverted, too.

What? Last time Morde appeared in patch notes was 6.16 which was QoL changes, last balance changes was in 6.1.

It's not even like those champs are very old and thus are updated accordingly. No, not really. They were updated relatively to very soon after their creation because those champs are troubles at a core level, hence a core change was demanded. And this happens almost for EVERY SINGLE CREATION THEY'D MADE.

Darius was updated during the Juggernaut update while Zyra was updated during the MYMU. But why does this even matter some champions are given updates solely for whatever reason like Rek'Sai

All of this points to the fact they only make champs who are fundamentally broken, that can not be meaningfully balanced without outright touching the actual design of their champs as opposed to numerical changes and minor additions or elimination. It is a VERY bad sign.

Champion designers have minimal to no say in terms of what numbers go into a champion.

There is a big difference between stepping out of the box and making terrible decisions again and again. It is "thinking outside of the box" to point a loaded pistol at my head to take a selfie, but that doesn't imply great intelligence (as per the message of the phrase) at all. See the point?

Non sequitur, unless you can give me an example on how this proves his designs are the problem versus balance.

Thinking outside of the box is something for example the designer of Ivern and Ornn does, changing up the game with introduction of radical differences in champ design to existing play patterns and strategies, but at no expense to everybody else (at least they tried to), and that's how it works. CT on the other hand is a "power-gamer" who designs on the basis of "making the very best", a selfish way of making things that only ensures everybody will be playing their champs with very little regard to the collective health of the game by specifically design towards the "end-point". Not to mention, all of their champs are shockingly meta-specific, and can be easily seen to be all be attempts to be THE meta champs, so I really fail to see how they even "think outside of the box" as a whole; I never agreed with the public notion that always claim CT is a visionary of sort and a creative designer, because all of their designs are all utterly unimaginative both thematically and gameplay wise if you just get a clue on some reference points, which you'd quickly realise they just get a bunch of things (which many are stolen from their fellow coworkers at that too, I'll get to it) and jam it all into a box without any consideration or restraint, and somehow that's creative? I highly disagree.

It's creative in the sense that all of these champions he's created are on the higher end of what is considered skill cap, Kalista for example has never held much of a marginal play rate due to many players not being able to use her passive correctly. Zed is a champion that thrives in 1v1 and split pushing but can instantly get punished in 5v5 because he's the ideal design of what you'd want out of an assassin. Thresh has had options in terms of what he can do, his flay is probably the most skill based thing about his kit but he can't compete with larger amounts of CC or with a proper team due to his reliance of his team.

Not only that, all of CT's champs pride themselves fundamentally unfair by default, hence why all of their champs were mini-reworked on this very basis. They often lacked team interactions and were either self contained mini-teams themselves, or they would be the one to demand other players (both allies and opponents) to react to them but not the other way around. CT's champs also often ravel in ambiguous weaknesses and vague counterplay options or flat out have none and the champ can not be meaningfully played against beyond the players themselves making mistakes. Their design philosophy is again, "selfish" to say the least; even the likes of Yi and Nasus are teamplayers in comparison to their champs, that's how bad it is.

Zed, Yasuo, Kalista, Thresh, Darius all require a proficient team to play around. Darius would get kited into oblivion if he doesn't have any enablers. Thresh, just straight up needs his team. Yasuo is better off being a secondary follow up rather than an engager, just like Yi. Zed plays around split pushing which his team needs to play around just like Nasus.

Another point I also hammer on why CT is a bad designer is that their champs with the exception of Zyra (but that's because it was a co-project), were straight up copies, reiteration and upgrades (by that I mean, literal upgrades, who do better with less weaknesses) of another EXISTING champion in the very same game. I mean, holy shit, Darius, Kalista, Yasuo and Thresh, just look at their kits and general design philosophy, who are all obvious imitations of the OTHER original champs while attempting to out-do and invalidate the said originals (reasons mentioned above). I'm surprised that we don't hear about Rioters going into war with this. That's just flat out bad on so many levels. Why do this?

.........................

Like whom? At least provide some examples, these champions are more individually unique than copies.

CT at the current stage as I currently know them (unless they redeem and prove otherwise, which I dearly hope that's gonna happen, but hasn't really), is NOT a good designer, or at least he isn't one for this game due to the various critical flaws I'd pointed out in the posts. I went into details on a few of the points I'd said in the previous reply, but the general gist of the argument remains the same.

SEKAIAug 28, 20171 votes

You have so many problems in your earlier part of reasoning in this reply it's really annoying to pick it apart and tackle. Like literally, your entire basis in the earlier bit is formed on top of a string of false understanding and shallow conclusions, I really can't be bothered to go through it point by point.

So I will address the elephant(s) in the room only:

You said

Non sequitur, unless you can give me an example on how this proves his designs are the problem versus balance.

Because giving a champ potential infinite mobility is a straight up bad fkn idea? And they put it on 2 of their 5 or so creations? Then there's also Thresh with infinite CC with infinite scaling? A bruiser who can literally 1 shot the entire enemy team, and without any kind of gating unlike say Nasus's farm-gate? Etc?

Like how is that "thinking outside of the box"? It's just a disaster waiting to happen. And yeah, they happened as anyone with half a brain would predict.

That is the equivalent of shooting a selfie with a loaded pistol to your head, it's just dumb. There is a difference between being ingenious and being stupid.

You said

It's creative in the sense that all of these champions he's created are on the higher end of what is considered skill cap, Kalista for example has never held much of a marginal play rate due to many players not being able to use her passive correctly. Zed is a champion that thrives in 1v1 and split pushing but can instantly get punished in 5v5 because he's the ideal design of what you'd want out of an assassin. Thresh has had options in terms of what he can do, his flay is probably the most skill based thing about his kit but he can't compete with larger amounts of CC or with a proper team due to his reliance of his team.

"Ideal design" is the fkn problem.

As I've said, he often designs specifically towards the "end-point", the pinnacle of a champ archetype. What does this mean, it is fkn OP because it by literally definition, is already the best the class could offer.

When you have a roster, the POINT of the roster is that it offers variety, different strength and weaknesses. If you specifically designed towards THE META, it destroys the point of variety and the purpose of the roster itself because people will simply play those "ideal champs" because why would you not. And that's exactly what CT wants, having people play their champ, almost exclusively. Doesn't that already ring a bell in terrible designs, and the fact CT gave 0 shit about nobody besides themselves?

And connecting to the previous point, it also again, proves that CT does NOT "think outside of the box" because they design specifically to exploit the box itself; box here is a metaphor for meta. They have done NOTHING BUT META DESIGNS, VERY META DESIGNS, as you yourself said so and shared by many others, why do some people even praise them for "creativity"? I don't get it at all.

Not to mention, their designs were often stolen from other existing champs in this very game, too. I mean, looking at the worst offender, Thresh is literally Blitz with a spin, how is that even okay?

If I were to put it bluntly, I personally believe CT is as far as I currently know them, creatively bankrupt, not this creative visionary that is often crowned to them. They're not, let's all be damn real.

Also, skill-cap. The perfect excuse to say that a champ is okay to be OP. Do you have any idea what game balance is? Skill-cap is NOT a reason to why a champ can be oppressive, sorely lacking in counterplay options or downright OP as CT's champs have a tendency to be either one of those without substantial work from the balance team and other designers. Skill-cap is NOT an excuse for extra power, if you have higher skill-cap, it ITSELF is already an advantage for being more flexible while being hard to learn, it does NOT need extra. And giving that extra edge both destroys the point of being a harder champ because they now are technically not harder but BETTER, it also shows the creator gave 0 shit about general balance and player interaction as proved again and again, and just wants to cater to the dumb and selfish players that populate a section of this community who want the "very best" and "do it all".

CT's designs so far have almost all been atrocious design in the context of roster-based competitive games. I don't think I even need to hammer the point even harder than this.

You also said

Like whom? At least provide some examples, these champions are more individually unique than copies.

Please don't play dumb.

Darius is literally a carbon copy of Garen with a spin. Kalista is the end-point of ranged ADC, though primarily taken from Ashe and Vayne. Yasuo is a reiteration of Yi, they even did a blog explaining why they're so similar and that they had trouble differentiating them during the design phase, and still end up pretty darn relateable anyway. Zed is the end-point of assassins. And as said before, Thresh is literally just Blitz with a spin.

Even most of the carbon-copy bruiser champs Riot had rushed out between the 2012 or so didn't outright have carbon-copy identities almost from head to toe like CT's champs besides a few things to do with copy-pasta ulties. And while people criticise Riot's older champs and urge them to differentiate them more, and justified on many levels, but somehow CT's downright stolen designs are hailed as the pinnacle of creativity.

It's disgusting.

VelvetCrotchAug 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3tlPtvhP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-08-25T02:59:30.671+0000)

CertainlyT, isn't a bad designer, he's created some of the most unique and fun to play champions we have to date.

If anything it's the balance they take when making these champions then people give CertainlyT shit for it for some reason.

CertainlyT, champion designer.

Meddler, balance team member.

See how that works.

Not to mention CertainlyT worked on the Warwick rework and damn is he fun to play and look that didn't turn out "toxic".

True.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 25, 20173 votes

He IS a bad designer simply because every champ he ever created is not fun to play against and warwick counts into that. While he is way more healthy certainlyT didn't have much to say and was more coaching than actually working on him so that might be one of the reasons why ww didn't turn out disgusting. Great you have fun playing yasuo or others of his abominations but CERTAINLY the vast majority does not have fun playing AGAINST his creations and this is an important part in champion design as well. The balance team can't do SHIT against the toxic yasuo playstyle. All they can do is shift numbers around everything else needs a kind of mini rework. So maybe you are his manager which would explain that fake upvote count.

Sorin AlucardAug 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

He IS a bad designer simply because every champ he ever created is not fun to play against and warwick counts into that. While he is way more healthy certainlyT didn't have much to say and was more coaching than actually working on him so that might be one of the reasons why ww didn't turn out disgusting. Great you have fun playing yasuo or others of his abominations but CERTAINLY the vast majority does not have fun playing AGAINST his creations and this is an important part in champion design as well. The balance team can't do SHIT against the toxic yasuo playstyle. All they can do is shift numbers around everything else needs a kind of mini rework. So maybe you are his manager which would explain that fake upvote count.

Sounds like you're not having fun because its not easy to win in certain match ups. Welcome to League Yasuo isn't your problem

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

He IS a bad designer simply because every champ he ever created is not fun to play against and warwick counts into that. While he is way more healthy certainlyT didn't have much to say and was more coaching than actually working on him so that might be one of the reasons why ww didn't turn out disgusting.

Where was this stated?

Great you have fun playing yasuo or others of his abominations but CERTAINLY the vast majority does not have fun playing AGAINST his creations and this is an important part in champion design as well.

Zed, Yasuo, Kalista, Thresh are some of the higher skill cap champions he created, other than generic point and click stuff like Ryze and Sej

The balance team can't do SHIT against the toxic yasuo playstyle. All they can do is shift numbers around everything else needs a kind of mini rework. So maybe you are his manager which would explain that fake upvote count.

Yasuo was a bad champion theoretically since his release and through out season 5, why because he had no actual good power spike in his kit, a champion based on crit and liifesteal alone sounds horrible and it's the reason why he remained around 50% win rate and below and never saw play in higher elo or competitve. But season 6 came along with keystones which gave him more credibility to keep up his early game issues and remain relevant through out the game with stuff like Warlords and Fervor, this is the reason why Yasuo since more play ever since but someone it's the champions kit itself that is toxic? Also crit itemization was different during season 5 and before versus season 6 where they introduced reworked items like PD.

Dextix LTAug 25, 20173 votes

Except he is a bad designer, he does not create unique champs, he takes broken shit and mashes it together into one frankenstein monster. Maybe they are fun to play, but they are shit to play against.

And no, it is not the fault of balance, the balance team can only affect numbers, abilities and kits are made by the designer, want to hear the best thing? Of all certainlyT champs, what broken is not numbers, it is the KITS. And who makes those kits CertainlyShite.

And yes, he worked on WW, the only actually balanced champ he worked on, gratz, now lets ignore his EVERY OTHER creation.

Face it, he is a shit designer, designer has to think not only about apprerance, but functionality too. And in a video game where counterplay has to properly exist, CertainlyT is a shit designer.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20171 votes

Zyra and Darius were considered broken after their update but after a few number and minor changes they're fine now.. hmm

Dextix LTAug 25, 20171 votes

Both had reworks after which they became less problematic. See the pattern? What CertainlyShite creates needs to be reworked again or kept shit until a rework happens, because the kits he makes are simply broken.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20171 votes

Even on release their numbers were changed.

MelledoneusAug 25, 20171 votes

Don't blame Meddler for this. He's the one person in the balance team I know who actually can identify real issues and solve them. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems that way.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERAug 25, 20171 votes

I'm not blaming Meddler, design team and balance team are two different that that people don't seem to get.

FairyfleurAug 25, 20171 votes

Warwick?

Armored YokaiAug 25, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Annie Lolicon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3tlPtvhP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-25T02:33:01.064+0000)

That would be CertainlyToxic. He is Yasuo's designer and has a notorious reputation for creating unbalanced and unfun champions.

It took a alot of public outcry to get him off the champ design team and he is probably one of the most hated Riot employees to date. Its the reason he does not come around the forums anymore.

Unfun champs to lane against would be Ahri Akali Annie Fizz Lulu

SpookyNeedleAug 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Armored Yokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3tlPtvhP,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2017-08-25T04:54:31.729+0000)

Unfun champs to lane against would be

Switch Ahri for leblanc

BoilTheOilAug 25, 201714 votes

Why the fuck are people still complaining about yasuo hes not even good

Wasabi KittyAug 25, 20179 votes

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Why the fuck are people still complaining about yasuo hes not even good

Because they're bronze/low silver and have no real understanding of the meta.

LauchmelderAug 25, 201710 votes

Because he doesn't need to be good for people to want to slit their wrists when laning against him.

He has the Janna syndrome with the difference that Janna is utility w/o dmg and Yasuo has dmg.

Wasabi KittyAug 25, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3tlPtvhP,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-08-25T07:29:37.059+0000)

Because he doesn't need to be good for people to want to slit their wrists when laning against him.

He has the Janna syndrome with the difference that Janna is utility w/o dmg and Yasuo has dmg.

But he's not that strong in lane either, in fact his laning phase is probably one of his biggest weaknesses right now, especially in a meta that favors control heavy long range mid laners such as Orianna that will absolutely shit on him provided they know how to play their champion at an equal or greater profiency than how well the Yasuo player knows how to play his champion.

Most of the mechanics aren't even that frustrating if players are willing to adapt to playing against him. I can off the top of my head, think of multiple champions that are much, much, MUCH more frustrating to lane against and deal with in mid and late game than Yasuo. A big one off the top of my head is Azir who has absolutely absurd range and can zone almost any champion off of their creep wave extremely well, on top of incredible mobility and an ultimate that does respectable damage and puts windwall to shame as a "safety net"

Most of the reason that people hate Yasuo so much really just boils down to 2 reasons.

Players aren't willing to change really anything about how they approach the game. I see this all the time not just in regards to Yasuo. People want to build the same 6 items every single game. They want to play every game the same way and never vary their play style. Junglers want to start at the same camp every single game and never diversify their route. This is especially true in regards to yasuo. They want to play the same way they do against every other champion and not vary their play style any. Then they get penalized for this and rather than adjust, they complain.
They're living in the past. Yasuo at some stages in the games history was absolutely broken. He'd get nerfed, and he'd still be OP. He'd get nerfed again, and still be OP. He'd get nerfed and people would think that he was balanced or even underpowered, and then some challenger Yasuo main would find a new way to build him and play him and he would be OP again. Now that he's weak, some players, ESPECIALLY low elo players (which are usually the ones that whine about playing vs Yasuo) haven't caught on and probably never will. You can see with some of the other high priority bans. At one time there was someone who posted on reddit weekly breaking down all the top banned champions and their game impact, divided by tiers. To no surprise Bronze and Silver players very frequently would ban champions with low win rates and very low impact.
Yasuo is a champion much like Riven in that a lot of the people who play him, play him exclusively. A lot of Yasuo one tricks beat other players not because they win the champjon match, but because they win the skill match. As I mentioned earlier an Orianna will shit on Yasuo provided the Orianna knows how to play at an equal or greater proficiency. But if the Orianna has all of 3 games on the champion and only picked her because they got a skin for her from loot drops, and the Yasuo player has 700 games on Yasuo and has been in this matchup at least a couple dozen times, he's going to know how to play the laning phase completely optimally, while the Orianna player will most likely get smashed.

Príncess DianaAug 25, 20179 votes

Hold up. Yasuo is not the reason we have unfair gameplay wtf.

We've got our ranged dps juggernaut over here KogMaw

We've got Janna item 3504 over here as well, not to mention Tristana and Draven .

And don't forget ranged AoE Rengar with a better invisibility and better scalings. Twitch

So no, YASUO of all people is not breaking the damn game.

Or our tanky assassin Chogath

Sun Wu RyuumokuAug 25, 20178 votes

I'm convinced one of you is cock-blocking a return to fair gameplay.

Unfair ??? Yasuo gameplay is totaly fair... if u know how to play this game.

Sorin AlucardAug 25, 20175 votes

Yasuo is hard to play and master. You literally can die to anyone if you're dumb. He's not the only champion like this

Most people who main hard champs ( Riven Vayne LeeSin ) start playing them and realize "wow its really easy to fuk up and die". So they put in more hours. They face more match-ups. If you get stomped by someone, you look up how to beat them specifically and practice.

It seems to me most of you who whine about this champ probably didn't put half the work in as other people to play your mains. You've got no excuse. I mean honestly if you're whining about Yasuo because he's so popular and strong yet you still don't know how to play against one that's on you lol You've fought him enough. Were you thinking "fuck this champion" or "ok what did I do wrong?" Are you standing in middle of minions attacking him? yeah you're effin asking to get blown up

If you main Lux for example, then you know Yasuo is a hard match up, but that doesn't make it impossible to win. I think its more likely that if Yasuo is stomping you as Lux you're being impatient and not positioning correctly. If you survive til 6 as Lux you have a larger chance of winning, but it requires you to be a farming little bitch til then.

If Lux gets her AOE past windwall, she can still leave it and zone him from his mobility options. Yasuo won't want to go in pre 6 unless he has room to chase her and dmg her. She can do what anyone playing smart against Yasuo can do and use autos to proc shield/bait wind wall then back up. Let Yasuo shove wave so he's A.) Gankable and B.) close enough that attacking you risks tower shots. With the wave pushed he really only has flash to run back to tower.

With Windwall down and shield recharging, Lux can poke him down and save ult for execution. I could put many, many more examples. This takes practice like any other champ.

If you haven't learned small intricacies about positioning your champ, knowing other champs' possible engage ranges, or csing well under aggressive harassment OFC you'll be frustrated. The bottom line is this game requires item and macro knowledge, mechanical knowledge, and knowledge of your enemy. Anyone who mains a single champ and is actively trying to learn all these categories is probably going to have a higher skill cap than you with that champ. Which is fair. They probably put in time doing boring practice that you didn't want to do, learning small things you may not have considered important until they're reking you and you don't know why lol

seriously, put in more hours with your champs before you whine that one seems broke. A champ is broke when a noob can pick them up build whatever and still stomp you. A champ is broke when they don't have to do anything special other than click towards the enemy until they're in attack range then attack. Yasuo doesn't even have high win rate past silver. SURPRISE people better at the game than you put in the time to learn stomping him.

Show some respect to the players better than you who put in the work to learn outplaying you. Then you'll be the Lux main who sees Yasuo Zed Fizz and has a plan instead of a defeatist attitude and ignorant complaints

ninjaroxasAug 25, 20171 votes

I agree with riven, vay is harder then most say but stilll not that hard (partially because supports), but lee? Ya no i suck with him and still dunked on people my first game as him.

Also for ffs when will people get it into their thick skulls most people don't hate him because he is strong, it's because he is the definition of unfun to play agaisnt

Sorin AlucardAug 25, 20171 votes

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I agree with riven, vay is harder then most say but stilll not that hard (partially because supports), but lee? Ya no i suck with him and still dunked on people my first game as him.

Also for ffs when will people get it into their thick skulls most people don't hate him because he is strong, it's because he is the definition of unfun to play agaisnt

Yeah but that opinion is too subjective to the individual. Some people only have fun when they feel they have a clear and easy way they see to win. Playing against a yas/vayne/lee isn't clear and easy unless you have a butt-ton of cc to smash on top of them. I actually enjoy challenges and dont have fun if things are too easy. js

also, Lee was hard for me, so was vayne, I sucked hard at first XD

ninjaroxasAug 25, 20171 votes

I did say most, some people just don't know how to play agaisnt him and others have their own reasons, but the most common is he is just annoying to play against or in some cases with

I've played all 3 of them and at least in lower elo vay and lee aren't that hard, riven is stupid hard to play, imo the hardest to play in the game

MLDzXnRRRAug 25, 20173 votes

Yasuo is in almost every normal blind pick game since release. He also sells many skins (way more than the forgotten champs that some otp spam the boards about ). He is in practice one of the most successful designs, if popularity is the criterion.

LauchmelderAug 25, 20173 votes

Agreed.

If the criterion would be the question: "Is it frustrating to play against a hypermobile (melee) ADC with 2 safety nets?" he would be the biggest design failure though

MLDzXnRRRAug 25, 20172 votes

Being manaless and with no cds is more frustrating for me. It is not fair to ult twice in a single teamfight.

DragonSheaAug 25, 20172 votes

The problem is that Riot likes X champions too much and just can't accept when a champ they love is toxic or a pain in the ass. Just when people call them out, they will fight dirty to preserve their cocksucking love for their champ or just spille dum. because tbh. that is one of riots biggest weaknesses: playing favorites with X champion and yasuo ain't the only one.

FairyfleurAug 25, 20172 votes

Lux is probably one of their biggest favorites, but you don't see her in the top 5 midlane mages.