@Meddler, Will Nidalee soon take the path of Elise?

InSingedWeTrust·Apr 10, 2015·7 votes·894 views

That path being a champion who has so much damage and utility in their kit that despite all your efforts they remain in an OP state until eventually you just decide to purposely make her unviable.

17 Comments

AbyssphereApr 10, 20155 votes

How can a champion have so much damage in their kit that they are impossible to balance? Damage is probably the single easiest thing in the game to tone down. Elise's % HP damage is a bit more unwieldy than most but Nidalee doesn't have any, it's just raw AP (and some AD) scaling. The balance team would have to be utterly incompetent to be incapable of balancing her damage. But she's an assassin anyway, so I don't see them reducing it.

And her utility is moderate, it always has been. Free wards are good, as are heals and mobility. But I don't think that's a kit with too much utility at all considering it is utterly lacking in crowd control and does not interact with enemy champions in any way other than damaging/revealing them. She has a fair bit of utility for an assassin, but she needs that to make up for the fact that she has far less windows of opportunity to assassinate than others do.

Also, Nidalee was irrelevant until the jungle buff. Not unviable, but not OP. So please let's not try and get a "Nidalee is impossible to balance" bandwagon going because it completely ignores the facts. Nidalee is powerful, annoying to play against, whatever. But making up blatant lies to make your calls for nerfs seem stronger is really not a good thing to do. If you want to be taken seriously then consider what you're saying more seriously (don't be lazy because you know the Nidalee bandwagon will upvote anything that says anything negative about her), and don't make up blatant lies like "Nidalee is always and will always be in an OP state".

SwiftKitten88Apr 10, 20152 votes

nidalee isn't op, she never was... she is one of the easiest champs in the game to counterplay, and she has a HUGE amount of hard counters that are really popular picks.

the issue with nidalee is that people don't KNOW her counters. and people the people who play nidalee don't generally go out of their way to make them known (unless people are threatening to nerf her)

people are so stuck in sticking to the meta the refuse to pick a champ that would totally destroy their lane opponent.

nerfing is going to have very little effect becuase as long as people keep doing the same stupid thing they will keep on losing to her.

people don't know how to face nidalee and therefore they will lose to her.

PæanApr 10, 20152 votes

I agree there are counters, and that I don't know them all that well. care to enlighten a noob with the counters, whether it's champs or play style.

Thanks in advance! :Dr

Really don't want this to sound sarcastic because I honestly want to better fight nidalee.

SwiftKitten88Apr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I agree there are counters, and that I don't know them all that well. care to enlighten a noob with the counters, whether it's champs or play style.

Thanks in advance! :Dr

Really don't want this to sound sarcastic because I honestly want to better fight nidalee.

almost any bruiser will win in a fight. for nidalee to win a rate she either needs to go for the kill, land a spear and not go in, or go in and get out fast.

nidalee will never win any prolonged fight in melee range. (note: im talking about AP nid besuase bruizer nid was nerfed inot obsolescence)

nidalee is a burst based assasin.

any form of cc will pretty much shut her down

if you not playing a bruiser or someone with CC there are other things you can do. (although most champs that dont fit into this catagory will have a harder time with nid) stand behind creep waves. and push out your lane. nidalee has a VERY hard time Csing under tower as AP nid and she cant thorw spears at your being there is a giant wave of minions between you and her.

if nidalee misses a spear go in for the trade. nidalee's only damage human skill is the spear and she does pretty horrid damage without hunted proced (just today was was 14 kills to a 7 kill graves and i missed a spear and figured i was fed enough to 1v1 him anyways. well, turns out i was wrong. nidalee cant really trade unless she procs hunted and when you have a 6 second windows that she is guarenteed not to proc hunted on you take it.

unless your goign to pick a bruiser or tanky midlane (which generally isnt the current meta, although it will totally wreck nid) there are a few champs that counter nid pretty hard

Zed forces nid to rush item 3191 and and free wave clear pretty much ensures she will be stuck under tower trying desprarly to CS with no mana regen.

Ahri is VERY strong vs nid becuase even if nid DOES land a spear. pouncing in on her is an auto point blanc charm to the face, all she needs to do is stand behind minions whenever charm is off cooldown and nida can never really enagae

Diana is another champ i hope to be seeing a nerf soon.

again she is a champ you cant pounce in on if you land a spear becuase she will use her shield to pretty much negate your damage and her aoe pull which will prevent you from escaping... like nidalee diana has a "skillshot" she can land to run on on you.. except.. hers goes through minions and your doesn't.

PæanApr 10, 20152 votes

Ok awesome. Thanks!

So I imagine people like Gragas Galio or Chogath can fare well as long as they aren't glass cannon.

Main thing that just slapped me in the face was working around her cooldowns, which is true for any champ, but the reminder helps a lot. Might have to pick up Diana mid again if I see a nidalee.

SwiftKitten88Apr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok awesome. Thanks!

So I imagine people like or can fare well as long as they aren't glass cannon.

Main thing that just slapped me in the face was working around her cooldowns, which is true for any champ, but the reminder helps a lot. Might have to pick up mid again if I see a nidalee.

Galio will do well because he is tanky and scales off magic resist. damage wise he wont hurt for much more than she can heal but unless nid gets a really good gank on him or he just takes spear after spear the the face without dodging any of them nida probably went ever mange to kill him Chogath is also good vs nid. although his bulkiness and immobility might make him sound weak to nid, that silence really hurts nid a lot, and as soon as you hit 6 pouncing into melee range is pretty much just pouncing into _meal _ range, as the feast will easy take away half your hp and the sicne and rupture will take away the first half. chogath has so much hp and life regen nid will probably never be able to solo kill him

Gragas i dont really know. he has been reworked and changed too many time since i have faced him

i know before nids rework nid has a really easy time with gragas but i really dont have much experience facing him anymore although without conclusive data to convince me otherwise i _personally _ wouldn't go out of my way to pick champs with really big hitboxes vs nidalee.

PæanApr 10, 20151 votes

My thoughts on gragas were the damage reduction on W along with % hp damage. He can cancel out her pounce and stun her with E, displace her with R, his Q slow isnot very helpful vs a full CDR nidalee though. And his passive gives awesome sustain.

ChargeItDownMidApr 10, 20151 votes

[deleted]

SwiftKitten88Apr 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It has nothing to do with people not knowing her "counters," Nidalee has "counters" in the same sense that zed has "counters" where they only counter a very specific part of her kit and still get outclassed overall by nadilee.

that is just plan wrong. even if zed is out of energy and he is still alive she can still melee you to death quite easily.

zed can take down tanks with all the bork and armor sherd he has whereas nidalee cant. zed is a lot less prone to cc as his escape can get h8im completely out of range almost instantly. zed can go in and damage you at any time eihout needed to land any skillshot

zed's free waveclear can be dont in perfect safety wihout him needing yo use his escape ability as his main farming tool

zed donest need to build mana regen and rush damage.

as opposed to nid... nid needs to land a skillshot to go in nid cant do jack shit to tanks and bruisers nidalee is very prone to cc

nidalee usesally rush mana regen first unless facing a zed where she is forced to rush item 3191

nidalee has to use her escape ability to farm and has to do it in melee range were she cant trigger hunt and trade if they enage

am i missing anything else?

zed has no counterplay becuase staying behind minions isnt safe. there are no entire class of bruiser and tanks that completely negate him zed inst prone to cc. zed isnt totally screwed in melee range after he spawns all his spells. Zed HAS NO WEAKNESS!!! Nidalee has many

IllumanatiObamaApr 10, 20151 votes

I think that's what everyone wants.

InSingedWeTrustApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think that's what everyone wants.

That's the only possible solution without some serious number tuning.

Nucleophilic atkApr 10, 20151 votes

No. Riot likes Nid, so it will never happen.

InSingedWeTrustApr 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3sAN0lsk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-10T00:57:42.180+0000)

No. Riot likes Nid, so it will never happen.

Yeah, no matter how they changed her she still ended up broken. Now she gets to compete in LCS. Elise tried that... :(

Kariu RenaApr 10, 20151 votes

jokes on you they wont make nid unviable i have seen her in every season in competitve after i started playing this game

Sleeping VictorApr 10, 20151 votes

Nerves to nothingness... Poof

YfrappefortApr 10, 20151 votes

Honestly, I preferred watching Elise then Nidalee. It was a lot more interesting.

Elise could make plays, but she had to land a slow moving skill shot and then going all in, thus putting her at high risk for a counter gank. She was also good at tanking objectives, but Riot just trashed everything about her kit.

Nidalee just throw spears from fog all day (much counterplay). She can miss often, she won't care, all it takes if for her to hit one. Even if she don't, she can just pounce to you, throw a point blank spear, execute you, then safely pounce away on her manaless, non-existent CD.

But hey, apparently ~~it makes better LC$ big play$~~ it's more interesting to watch, so Riot won't touch her in any meaningful way.

SwiftKitten88Apr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I preferred watching Elise then Nidalee. It was a lot more interesting.

Elise could make plays, but she had to land a slow moving skill shot and then going all in, thus putting her at high risk for a counter gank. She was also good at tanking objectives, but Riot just trashed everything about her kit.

Nidalee just throw spears from fog all day (much counterplay). She can miss often, she won't care, all it takes if for her to hit one. Even if she don't, she can just pounce to you, throw a point blank spear, execute you, then safely pounce away on her manaless, non-existent CD.

But hey, apparently ~~it makes better LC$ big play$~~ it's more interesting to watch, so Riot won't touch her in any meaningful way.

as soon as nidalee misses a spear you know she is there and you stand behind creep

and nidalee cannot pounce in on you if a spear does not hit, because that pouncing in on a target required hunted to be proced on them. if hunted is not proced, all she has is her normal pounce. using your normal pounce to try to go in on a target would be nearly suicide for nidalee. you would need to pounce in.. swap to human form to land a spear.. then swap back to cougar to do damage. the time it takes to do this between the cooldown on swapping forms means you would be dead long before you manage to do any damage