Annie bot only plays Annie, he has insane macro plays with annie but the big problem is that he just dies to counterplay lol. Getting tower dive, outranged by 80% of the mid laners etc. Can Annie get some of rework or help? That champion is straight up useless in high elo, she is super basic of a champion has no potential.
420 grams43 votesThe problem is his name is Annie Bot, but if you watch him he usually plays mid.
Swarovsko3 votesYeah but he's a bottom
PaffWasTaken18 votesMeh, not too sure about this one.
isn't really "bad", she just fills the niche of an immobile short ranged nuke mage, which is pretty much the perfect opposite of the ultra mobile assassin meta mid has been forced into for over a year. She just doesn't fill any role, and this gets pretty obvious when almost all of the very few "outplays" Jared do are just basically a passive+ult on more than 1 champion. Her role is basically incapacitating and potentially nuking several champions, but she lacks the utility, mobility and snowballing that most other midlaners have while they are potentially doing the same at a much, much safer range or with a much faster engage.
Crescent Dusk3 votesMeh, not too sure about this one.
Except her burst is no better than artillery mages or mage assassins like Zoe/LB/Ahri while still being made of wet paper and having the worst wavepush in the game alongside one of the worst ranges as well.
There are no upsides to this champ. You can even take cleanse to negate her ult and kill her.
Meanwhile Malzahar and Morgana have far better waveclear and function as way more effective and safe CC mages. So does Oriana for that matter.
The moment they nerfed Annie's ult to make that steaming pile of garbage that is current Tibbers is the day she died.
New Tibbers is a discount store version of Daisy with possibly the worst AI in the game, and it can't keep up with moving champions. I can count the amount of times where I'm mashing my R button and the dumbass bear will simply not attack what I command it to, and if I die and it enrages it chases a target until it has 5% health and then decides to just bugger off.
But the real weakness is that Annie will always lose tower no matter what unless the JG babysits her lane and feeds her for the simple fact that even if you don't get poked to death or outbursted by an assassin or enemy mage, Annie's wavepush is so bad thanks to her horrendous W mana cost prohibiting her from ever using it to not get pushed into tower every single time.
The enemy can virtually never kill you and still take your tower because Annie's wavepush even with Luden's is atrocious.
Her lane would be a lot less terrible if she could push and roam like she's meant to, but with her current W costs she cannot.
Then there's the fact a Zed can eat my full ult combo and still kill me with a single shuriken hit with his ult. That's how bad Annie's burst has been nerfed.
Annie is only ever good when she gets ahead. Any other day you put a tank or bruiser on her since her range is miserable and she just dies since she can't self peel effectively and she does not do enough sustained DPS like Malzahar to be a tankbuster mage like Vlad/Swain/Malz.
Votable Jester3 votesAnnie's strength is more in her reliable aoe stun + aoe nuke. She doesn't nuke a single target uniquely well, but she can pretty much win a fight with a flash R.
Crescent Dusk1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ouWYVsX,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-05-13T17:30:56.718+0000)
Annie's strength is more in her reliable aoe stun + aoe nuke. She doesn't nuke a single target uniquely well, but she can pretty much win a fight with a flash R.
Good luck landing a flash R against a team who sees your 4 bars and has an actual frontline. In order to get in flash ult range of the ADC you are already in engage range of a tank long before then and all it takes is the tank and jg sitting on you all fight long since Annie has no peels worth a damn.
Annie is even more telegraphed than Illaoi and that's saying something.
Saevum1 votesWhen she does that does she uses a bush and maybe a control ward?
RavenMagus1 votesShe scales really well, but lane phase is a complete nightmare against almost every champion in the game.
Nearly every single champion she faces midlane has very similar burst to her now, but with some combination of longer range, more mobility, more waveclear, or more tankiness. Usually two or three of those.
The thing is, her only real focus is the incredible amount of damage she can put out - but with all the new runes, most other champs can also put out that damage now too.
She's still a good teamfighter, though - so staying safe and focusing on roaming and farming is the way to go thee days.
Moody P17 votesAnnie isn't bad though
Tahminatrix 5 votesI think the problem isn't how good annie is, its just her outdated kit.
Outdated kits are especially punishing for squishy immobile short range champs.
Moody P3 votesIf she isn't bad then she's not outdated.
floo1 votes
Partly 
too
Thefrostyviking2 votesOutdated in the context of not being good to play anymore due to their kits not functioning well.
Rammus and Jax are certainly not part of that category, nor is annie really.
A case could be made for fiddle though, trynd too probably.
floo1 votesHe claimed champs that are doing well in the game couldn't be outdated. Which isn't the case for Jax, Rammus and Fiddle too, who sees a lot of play in support atm. Which is concerning, since their kits are pretty simple, but can keep up easily with other strong champs.
Moonscourge13 votesJust goes to show that you can be high elo with a shit champion. Pathetic how many people "abuse the op" and still can't climb :)
kuzzy471 votesJust goes to show that you can be high elo with a shit champion. Pathetic how many people "abuse the op" and still can't climb :)
But they are climbing. The artificially inflate their ranks. Ofc not everyone can get diamond otherwise it wouldn't be the 3%. Lets say silver 5 climbs to silver 2 because of ez op champs.
Hemulen Magi7 votesHere are some ideas: P (Wildfire): Annie's abilities set terrain on fire for 3 seconds. Opponents in burning terrain are grounded and have their magic resistance reduced. After being in burning terrain for 1 second, enemies catch fire, taking magic damage over time.
Q (Summon: Fireball): Summon a living fireball elemental [visually, sort of like a cute Poro made of flame] and throw it a short distance as a bouncing skill shot [like Heimerdinger's grenade or Ziggs' bouncing bomb]. If the fireball doesn't collide with a target while thrown, it starts hopping towards the nearest enemy unit for a short time before fizzling out [this could reuse the code from living Jinx chompers from the Onslaught minigame]. If the fireball collides with an enemy, it detonates to deal magic damage while setting the surrounding area on fire.
[The fireballs each do low damage but the cooldown and cost is incredibly low (I am imagining like 3 seconds, 20 mana), allowing Annie to constantly spam Q in fights for a barrage of bouncing fireball chaos. The idea is that opponents wouldn't be able to evade all of the fireballs but they wouldn't be extremely punishing to be hit by either.]
W (Inferno): Deals magic damage in a cone spreading outward from Annie and sets enemies and terrain on fire. The AOE cone size scales with AP and ability rank. In an ["U" shaped] area along the Inferno cone perimeter where it originated from Annie, tall flame walls surge up 0.5 seconds after casting is complete. Enemies passing through the flame wall will take magic damage.
[The flame wall is not technically impassable, but enemies passing through the walls take a large, deterring amount of damage. This ability is useful for creating large areas of burning terrain and to create a gap between Annie and an opponent trying to close in on her or an ally.]
E (Blast Shield): Creates a shield around Annie and an allied champion or Tibbers. The shield burns more intensely as it absorbs incoming damage or is exposed to burning terrain. E can be recast to detonate the shields, dealing AOE damage based on the damage absorbed and setting nearby enemies on fire.
R (Summon: Tibbers): [Same as current but with a short visible cast animation, where the teddy bear is thrown, allowing opponents to dodge it (keep in mind that they'll be grounded if they're on burning terrain). Wherever Tibbers walks, the terrain is set on fire (like Singed poison trail).]
Snowbrand3 votes[{quoted}](name=Hemulen Magi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ouWYVsX,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-05-12T22:17:42.097+0000)
Here are some ideas: P (Wildfire): Annie's abilities set terrain on fire for 3 seconds. Opponents in burning terrain are grounded and have their magic resistance reduced. After being in burning terrain for 1 second, enemies catch fire, taking magic damage over time.
Q (Summon: Fireball): Summon a living fireball elemental (visually, sort of like a cute Poro made of flame) and throw it a short distance as a bouncing skill shot (like Heimerdinger's grenade). If the fireball doesn't collide with a target while thrown, it starts hopping towards the nearest enemy unit for a short time before fizzling out. If the fireball collides with an enemy, it detonates to deal magic damage to the target and set the surrounding area on fire. The fireballs each do low damage but the cooldown and cost is incredibly low (I am imagining like 3 seconds, 20 mana), allowing Annie to constantly spam Q in fights for a barrage of bouncing fireball chaos.
W (Inferno): Deals magic damage in a cone and sets enemies and terrain on fire. The AOE cone size scales with AP and ability rank. Useful for creating large areas of burning terrain.
[Alternative W Idea (Inferno): Creates a circle (AOE size scaling with AP) of burning terrain at a target area, which after 1.5 seconds has tall flame walls surge up along its perimeter. The flame walls are not technically impassable, but enemies passing through the walls take a large, deterring amount of damage and are set on fire.]
E (Blast Shield): Creates a shield around Annie and an allied champion or Tibbers. The shield burns more intensely as it absorbs incoming damage or is exposed to burning terrain. E can be recast to detonate the shields, dealing AOE damage based on the damage absorbed and setting nearby enemies on fire.
R (Summon: Tibbers): Same as current but with a short visible cast animation, where the teddy bear is thrown, allowing opponents to dodge it (keep in mind that they'll be grounded if they're on burning terrain). Wherever Tibbers walks, the terrain is set on fire (like Singed poison trail).
You should be game designer, hope Riot see this. Very cool ideas actually
Hemulen Magi3 votesYou should be game designer, hope Riot see this. Very cool ideas actually
Thanks! In a way, I sort of am, since I have made some small hobby games and quite a few mods and minigame custom scenarios for games. = P My day job is programming, but not specifically programming games. Maybe someday though. However, I doubt Riot would ever want to hire me because I've been pretty critical (and honestly rude) to them before.
ORB1TS2 votes[{quoted}](name=Hemulen Magi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ouWYVsX,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-05-12T22:17:42.097+0000)
Here are some ideas: P (Wildfire): Annie's abilities set terrain on fire for 3 seconds. Opponents in burning terrain are grounded and have their magic resistance reduced. After being in burning terrain for 1 second, enemies catch fire, taking magic damage over time.
Q (Summon: Fireball): Summon a living fireball elemental [visually, sort of like a cute Poro made of flame] and throw it a short distance as a bouncing skill shot [like Heimerdinger's grenade or Ziggs' bouncing bomb]. If the fireball doesn't collide with a target while thrown, it starts hopping towards the nearest enemy unit for a short time before fizzling out [this could reuse the code from living Jinx chompers from the Onslaught minigame]. If the fireball collides with an enemy, it detonates to deal magic damage while setting the surrounding area on fire.
[The fireballs each do low damage but the cooldown and cost is incredibly low (I am imagining like 3 seconds, 20 mana), allowing Annie to constantly spam Q in fights for a barrage of bouncing fireball chaos. The idea is that opponents wouldn't be able to evade all of the fireballs but they wouldn't be extremely punishing to be hit by either.]
W (Inferno): Deals magic damage in a cone spreading outward from Annie and sets enemies and terrain on fire. The AOE cone size scales with AP and ability rank. In an ["U" shaped] area along the Inferno cone perimeter where it originated from Annie, tall flame walls surge up 0.5 seconds after casting is complete. Enemies passing through the flame wall will take magic damage.
[The flame wall is not technically impassable, but enemies passing through the walls take a large, deterring amount of damage. This ability is useful for creating large areas of burning terrain and to create a gap between Annie and an opponent trying to close in on her or an ally.]
E (Blast Shield): Creates a shield around Annie and an allied champion or Tibbers. The shield burns more intensely as it absorbs incoming damage or is exposed to burning terrain. E can be recast to detonate the shields, dealing AOE damage based on the damage absorbed and setting nearby enemies on fire.
R (Summon: Tibbers): [Same as current but with a short visible cast animation, where the teddy bear is thrown, allowing opponents to dodge it (keep in mind that they'll be grounded if they're on burning terrain). Wherever Tibbers walks, the terrain is set on fire (like Singed poison trail).]
nah last thing i want in the game is brand 2.0
Hemulen Magi1 votesnah last thing i want in the game is brand 2.0
Are you referring to the burn damage? I think fire spells dealing burn damage is fine to share between kits as a theme in the game, like ice elemental attacks tend to slow and freeze opponents. Is 
a clone of 
because they both slow and freeze enemies as ice mages? Or do they share traits that make sense for their element and class?
That is how I see it. I think this new Annie kit is actually less like Brand in ways that feel generic, like no longer both having plain and unembellished "fireball" spells or both stunning enemies with fire which is less central for a fire mage in my mind than burning enemies.
Little Fire Girl1 votesOmg, I really like these ideas!!!! As an Annie main I really like the size of her w scaling. That alone would help her tremendously with AOE clear, and I love the extra usefulness of her shield having a damaging active being like Sion.
AbiwonKenabi1 votesThis kit is fine, but the biggest problem I see with it is that its not Annie. The key appeal to Annie's kit is the stun mechanic, and I think doing away with that entirely is basically erasing the Champion's gameplay identity, erasing what players like about her. If they were ever going to rework Annie, her passive and her ultimate are the things that absolutely should be kept.
Daddy Ants6 votesSuper useless in low elo as well.
Jennifer4202 voteswhat how? she has really high damage and her ult is instant, meaning you got 1 frame to react to it. not to mention last hitting with q refunds the mana. so she is the perfect mid champ for farming.
Flashes1 voteswhat how? she has really high damage and her ult is instant, meaning you got 1 frame to react to it. not to mention last hitting with q refunds the mana. so she is the perfect mid champ for farming.
And what else does she do other than farming?
Are her roams any good?
Jennifer4201 votesroams in low elo? lul
Saevum3 votesAnnie has an insane burst. She goes really well with a control ward and a bush. Ambush and GG.
WeaselRune1 votesAnnie does not have insane burst. Her burst is about the same as most mid mages, and an ambush on anyone who face checks to a bush tends to be good.
The difference is other mages can make a good play with their jg at the drop of a hat and dont have an indicator over their heads that says "stay away."
Naalith3 votesThe problem is Annie is basically the mage version of Garen, supposed to be extremely easy to get new people into the game. There aren't a lot of champions like that and I doubt Riot would want to make Annie viable for high levels of play because new people would lose one of the only characters that is super easy to learn League on. Most of the easy to learn characters aren't mages, either, so it would be double bad.
Furious Delisha1 votesThe problem is Annie is basically the mage version of Garen, supposed to be extremely easy to get new people into the game. There aren't a lot of champions like that and I doubt Riot would want to make Annie viable for high levels of play because new people would lose one of the only characters that is super easy to learn League on. Most of the easy to learn characters aren't mages, either, so it would be double bad.
If you make a new account you will find that the new beginner friendly mage of choice is actually Brand. Annie requires you to combo and control your bear for damage without making it obvious.
Brand on the other hand makes it very clear how to play him. Hit lots of spells in a row for bonus effects. Easy, simple.
IronyAndSublime2 votesMaybe he should learn how to play other champions. By this Elo, you shouldn't have ONLY ONE CHAMPION YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY. One tricking is fine, but having back up picks is crucial.
Malix Farwin2 votesMaybe he should learn how to play other champions. By this Elo, you shouldn't have ONLY ONE CHAMPION YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY. One tricking is fine, but having back up picks is crucial.
There are one tricks in challenger, he has been in challenger for multiple seasons himself.
IronyAndSublime1 votesThe issue being the champion he one tricks is pretty hard to actually play efficiently at an Elo that KNOWS how annie works and what destroys her. You can't compare a one trick champion like 
whose overloaded and very useful to play at high level to someone simplistic and straightfoward as a beginner champion like .
The less simplistic and new player friendly a champion is, the higher chance they'll be viable at a high level. There's a reason people who trick new player friendly champions like ARE VERY RARE. They're very straightfoward and it's clear what their counterplay is. No one's gonna play 
in challenger and expect NOT to be counterpicked most of the time. No ones gonna play 
and expect the enemy jg to not pick 
or 
Now, Yes, I KNOW THERE ARE NEW PLAYER FRIENDLY CHAMPIONS THAT CAN WORK IN HIGH ELO. I'm just saying the more straightfoward ones are the easiest to shit on.
Daddy Ants2 votesMain issues with Annie in low elo is she's outclassed by the majority of the mid lane roster.
Have fun vs things like Zed, Talon, Zoe, LeBlanc, Irelia, Aatrox or Any GLP Abuser.
Annie Bot can make Annie work because he has like 20,000 games experience with the champion.
Annie is just outdated as hell compared to the current mid roster.
Dracocrash2 votesUH OH A CHAMPION HAS DEFINED STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES LETS REWORK THEM -boards every time
Seriously you guys need to stop calling for reworks on every champion for fucks sake.
oriannashutsdown1 votespartly i agree with you cause annie kit is disappointing and shes hard to carry with and partly not cause that's what makes her annie
well I liked old nunu for his simplicity and they reworked him and it wasn't THAT bad so i have some faith in rito that annie's rework would be cool
General Esdeath 1 votesAnnie is fine, she's just too simple for high elo play is all.
General Matty1 votesYou make a statement and then proceed to contradict it. The entire problem with Annie is that she's too simple and other midlaners do her job better. She is not ''fine'' if she cannot be used in high elo. Simple champions just do not work in this game anymore.
General Esdeath 2 votes[{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ouWYVsX,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-05-13T11:31:19.325+0000)
You make a statement and then proceed to contradict it. The entire problem with Annie is that she's too simple and other midlaners do her job better. She is not ''fine'' if she cannot be used in high elo. Simple champions just do not work in this game anymore.
No champion is going to be good at every ELO. They're either too complicated for low elo or too simple for high elo. You also have to remember that Annie's shtick (High burst) is a common thing now.
Hot LeBlanc Yuri1 votesI would love to see her E get reworked.
XYGSYS1 votesTBH it might actually be a buff to Annie if they took they shield off completely and just made it a passive stack. That way they could remove the mana cost and reduce the CD.
For real though, they should give her a new E.
Malix Farwin1 votesWell one of the biggest problems with her is her opponent can pretty much do anything on the map. Its hard for her to roam without losing a ton of cs because she gets shoved by every popular mid lane matchup. Champions she used to counter either got buffed or now have items that deal with her easily.
She can't roam because she is always shoved
She can't beat her counters because they are buffed against her(either directly or with items)
She is immobile.
tbh with you Neeko prolly does her job but better.
kayochan1 votesI feel real dumb because I thought you were actually talking about to co-op vs. Ai annie bot lmao.
Sonic Adventure1 votesUseless in high elo
He is grandmaster with positive winrate though.
Little Fire Girl1 votesI also only play Annie because I like her a lot. She's very simple to play and that's the cost of her being outgunned by so many other harder to play champions that have higher utility. It's very rewarding to be the underdog and come out as the victory. Maybe I am optimistically masochistic. As Annie, I do have tremendous problems with long-ranged. They do as much, if not more damage than me from a safe distance. You can tell by how fast they can clear minions. They also seem to use less Mana for their AOE clears than I have to for my AOE w clears if I max it.
If I max my w, I can keep up with aoe minion clearing but at higher mana costs, but its cooldown is fairly long, and I forfeit any kind of ability to respond to harassment. If I max q first, I can manage mana and cooldowns better and secure minions but only 1 at a time, so farming becomes very slow compared to them taking out 3-4 minions at a time instantly, and it puts me in range to be smacked.
This is from my perspective:
Annie: Has a damage % reduction shield that is mostly only useful versus non-casting physical attackers like ADCs, so I try to support as Annie mostly rather mid where I find maxing the shield first pulls great results when the ADCs go after me. Good AOE clear but only when leveled to at least 3-4 to be effective and but it is higher mana demanding. She has a long range auto attack but the animation time is slow. She has a lock-on single target fireball that can refund mana and cooldown but only on kills, and instant-cast AOE stun with w or ult but only when passive is charged and ult has a range shorter than q and w. Her kit nearly requires the spell Flash to have Annie be most effective, but even then, she is slow moving and if the target has a dash and can know what to expect from an Annie (she is the most predictable character! if an Annie is staying still or moving towards you, you immediately know what she's planning), results in many wasted flash and ult, and makes you look really poor. Most likely death also since you are in the middle of a group of enemies all by yourself for a few seconds. All of Annie's skillset is reliant in some way on one or two other things in order to work to maximum potential, but she is still vastly simple compared to others. She has 3 damage spells, where most others have 4. Her shield is mostly used as a way to charge her stun. For defensiveness I don't think its really that great unless you build defensive MR and armor items too. I like the revenge aspect of Tibbres, only except the AI is a bit ridiculous sometimes. If you are nearly killing someone to 1% hp, but someone else kills you, Tibbers makes a B-line straight for the person who killed you, rather the person with 1% health he was just smacking. Also if you are in a fight with a person with 1% hp, and they kill you at the same time you cast q, your q just disappears and they get to live. These happen to me so often and it really sucks.
vs
Hard Lanes: (requires Jungler help, even tower farming difficult) Leblanc: The one I most struggle with. She's really, really annoying and very obnoxious because she knows she has the upperhand in engage, doing lots of damage, then disengage. Repeatedly until you are dead. When she sees an Annie mid she just licks her lips greedy. She can rush up to my face, and I have two options: run and only just take dash damage, or attack but get stunned by chains and take even more damage, possibly die Xerath: His cooldowns are virtually seemingly zero. I can dodge a shot, but he'll have another coming in 2 seconds. It just does not stop. Orianna: Has HP shield and speed, and aoe. Can stand back really far and still outfarm me due to better scaling long-range AOE, while I have to walk up and take damage to the face in order to take out 1 minion at a time Syndra: Has aoe stun and knockback, long range aoe, and can use Tibbers against me. Brand: Has five sources of damage and tons of aoe and damage over time, and a stun.
Boring Lanes: (tower farm only) Zyra: Have to tower hug. Those plants start to hurt. Heimerdinger: He can seige your tower right from under you. You can flash ult him but only if he's next to 2/3 of his turrets, but he will never actually put them that close together. Malzahar: Has invisibility shield and long range aoe and a silence. You cannot come near this guy at all. Morgana: Has an HP and CC mitigating shield, self-healing, but at least she can't completely drive me out. Zed: Not a problem for me, I just have to rush Zhonyas. But by that time I will have already died to an ult or two, and he's already down raising havoc in bottom lane while I'm dead. Ahri: Not too much problem for me, if I can just dodge her pink charm. Buy she can dash to you which is similar to just flashing, and guarantee charm and facewreck me. Kassadin: Not too much of a problem in the lane, but he is almost always in some other lane deleting my team and I can't keep up with him.
Still, I love Annie and I won't stop playing. I don't know how she can be made to be better, but I don't want to see her changed just for the sake of change and possibly ruin what I love about her: simple, and effective even when behind. A well-placed flash Tibbers can turn some games if another player is fed and can capitalize. Annie with an Amumu or Malphite or Sejuana can do some crazy things together. But if Annie is the team's only initiator or AOE CC, nothing can happen except a dead Annie.
Also, tanks with high damage like Renekton, Nasus, Wukong, Nocturne, Darius, and Garen make Annie cry :( Can't kill them at all, but they can easily kill you. They laugh as they absorb your whole combo and go from 100% hp to 80% hp, and they do 2-3 hits on you. Nocturne can just keep ulting you all game and there is nothing you can do, even under a tower.
TyroneWatermelon1 votesAnnie Macro
lol
ZXImmortal1 voteslol
Macro means game knowledge Lol
ZXImmortal1 votesYeah i felt bad for intermediate annie bot when i one shot her on ap rengar they really need to buff these bots
Daddy Ants1 votesNeeko is a better Annie right now.
Zoe is a better Annie with longer range and a lot more damage.
