Gragas has a 90% pick and ban rate and 80% pick rate in lcs

Altricad·Jun 15, 2015·14 votes·2,228 views

Where are the nerfs? Champions that have hit 90%pick/ban have all got nerfed Friggin gets axed for a whole month ( gets buffed to normal later, but still) and nerfed patch after patch and gragas is left untouched? isn't allowed to deal damage while building tank and yet can go and burst harder than a Full AP

His drunken rage cooldown is ridiculous, 4 seconds while dealing 12% max hp is too strong given that it also has an AP ratio. 6 seconds would seem reasonable at least.

Then again, gragas could be totally fine, but given how much he's banned/picked/feared he's definitely crossed the "OP" line

22 Comments

SwollwonderJun 15, 20155 votes

I don't see Gragas that much? I mean I feel like he's picked so much not for his numbers but his cc and crowd displacement with his ult which are just part of his kit

Sire HippingtonJun 15, 20152 votes

he's mostly picked cause he has a great damage packed ontop of the cc aswell as some sustain, unlike other heavy cc picks. This allows him to stand his ground vs early beast like lee or reksai both in duels, ganks and clearspeed, while outscaleing them later on(same was true for seju to an extend till the latest nerfs)

Lowering the flat basedamage on his W woul go a long way to put him in line with other junglers.

AltricadJun 15, 20151 votes

Yeah, that comment by Jatt on how gragas can duel THE LeeSin early game and outscale him eventually had me. Why play Lee when gragas does everything he does but better?

LankPantsJun 15, 20152 votes

Grag cannot duel Lee early game.

He can survive long enough for his team to get there, or run away but assuming the Lee isn't retarded he'll out-duel Grag pretty damn hard.

Hard4HamstersJun 15, 20153 votes

I just think of Gragas as a very SAFE champion. He can't be punished so hard for making a bad move because he has an AOE slow, a stun/dash, and a huge knockback if he gets into any bad situations. His Ultimate is really strong as a displacement to separate the enemy team and pick them off one at a time, but it can also stop your team from securing a kill or end up killing your carries if you use it incorrectly.

As far as his damage, his only source of lategame damage is his W, everything else is negligible for anyone besides really squishy targets.

He has early game pressure unmatched by any other tank in the game (Zac is the only one I think can do as well as him), and he scales pretty well into the lategame, so he is a really strong and very safe pick as he is not reliant on snowballing. Rek'sai seems to be his only real equal in terms of exerting pressure early and not falling off very hard in the lategame (though this is mostly due to her Utility and map presence versus Grag's CC and Ult). Other tanks heavily out damage him in the lategame, but they usually have really weak early games; Amumu and Sejuani come to mind.

I wouldn't mind if he got nerfed some more, mostly so people would stop banning him and I could play him. But I really hope if they do any meaningful damage nerfs to his kit, they at least do something about his laning. Right now, it's pretty shit. His AP ratios were all nerfed, but I think that was warranted. What I really found hurt him in the laning phase was the damage reduction to minions on his Q. Basically, if you nerf his damage, his laning gets even worse and he is forced into Jungle or Support.

Before Cinderhulk, Gragas had a 45-46% steady winrate in soloqueue. He was mostly played mid and top with occasional jungle play. But his winrate was a reflection of how hard his laning was hit by the damage reduction to minions on his Q. I think it should be reverted if he receives any nerfs to his base damages.

Anyway. Those are my thoughts on the matter. I don't think Gragas is as broken as everyone says he is, I just think he is incredibly safe and hard to punish. I really wouldn't mind if he got nerfed because it would shut people up about him and maybe I would be able to play him again (he's fun to play). We'll see what happens. The new AP jungler item is going to be released soon and we'll see if that pushes some junglers into favor (probably won't happen in its current state: 40AP?). Peace.

Buttigieg 2020Jun 15, 20152 votes

Gragas is gonna be the new maokai. He will only receive minor nerfs since although he is slightly overturned he is a healthy baseline for tanks. The only tank junglerrs that has recieved significant nerfs since cinder hulk is sejuani. This is mainly because most people don't complain about tanks. You rarely see "nunu broken" or "gragas broken" threads although they are without a doubt the best junglers. Although gragas does a lot of damage a minor nerf can fix it (reduce on hit w damage from 12% to 10%).

Chaotic ReksJun 15, 20152 votes

good, im glad he has such a high winrate. im glad to see a balanced champion doing well.

yet can go and burst harder than a Full AP

lol Nasus

Celeste BenalJun 15, 20152 votes

For a fat man, Gragas moves too damn fast. Was playing Ekko. Got chased down by Gragas. wtf...

Deep Terror NamiJun 15, 20151 votes

Ohmwrecker has 100% win rate in LCS, nerf it.

AltricadJun 15, 20151 votes

Ekko has a 25% win rate in LCS buff him, kappa

TotalJerkJun 15, 20151 votes

They consider the ban rate more when it comes to the LCS. Yeah, his pick rate is huge, but his ban rate isn't.

ChaosThiefJun 15, 20151 votes

SOON(tm)

WalkingInACircleJun 15, 20151 votes

He's a little too good at what he does yeah.

Arch Mage MagnusJun 15, 20151 votes

They just nerfed the width on his E like 2 patches ago? Not sure what else they can do because of his kit. Like with the new Mage jungle item he's gonna wreck even more I think ( assuming you don't go cinder hulk ). Gragas has seen play in every lane but ADC lol.

FadedpfJun 15, 20151 votes

Don't know why people complain about Gragas damage. Amumu Has some of the most broken damage ever. But for some reason he is barely played.

AltricadJun 15, 20151 votes

I personally don't have problems aganist mumu that much since his only escape requires a target on the other side of the wall. I've invaded and shut down mumus easily but gragas gives me a LOT of trouble if I do the same to him

Sire HippingtonJun 15, 20151 votes

amumu has only one source of cc in his base kit, which is tied to his mobillity and can be bodyblocked, his damage is less bursty, but mostly, his damage isn't that high early in the game, which combined with his lack of sustain, lowish mobillity(if your Q doesn't find a target, your not gonna move) adds to suboptimal early clears aswell as rather bad ganks and duelling, and his ult while having massive potential also has massive cd, meaning he can make plays at a much lower rate than someone like gragas, while also not offereong much with the ult on cd...

If it comes to lategame, amumu is definitly stronger, but gragas has a lot stronger early and mid while still offering a quite powerfull late.

VDc0zCqe0wJun 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Don't know why people complain about damage. Has some of the most broken damage ever. But for some reason he is barely played.

only if he goes full AP

atomicwitJun 15, 20151 votes

Meh, Gragas is overhyped. In Plat+, he doesn't even have a positive winrate.

3TWarriorJun 15, 20151 votes

full AP zilean does (from 900 ap) 1110(I think there might be 65 more than this) damage * 2 + 235 every 3 seconds or so so that's 2445 magic damage

gragas can do 20% of your hp in magic damage on his W and his Q does minimal damage

BeddlamJun 15, 20151 votes

There are champs that are popular in competitive, but don't seem to tip the balances so much that they need to be nerfed. Gragas is one, but so are Sivir Thresh Rumble Maokai RekSai Janna Gnar and Jinx . Just because a champ sees a lot of competitive play doesn't mean they are OP.

Sire HippingtonJun 15, 20151 votes

honestly, it's one of the clearest indicators we have for the powerlevel of a champ, If a champ is picked/banned nearly all pro games, it means he's crowding out other picks and works in nearly all strategies/against all strategies, and that is a problem.

It doesn't have to mean those picks at the same time dominate soloQ, but not dominateing soloQ doe not mean they aren't OP in a way and have to be looked at. Gragas 100%pick ban with stil high winrate shows that he will work with and against any teamcomp in pro play, thus he lacks a defined niche, or simply works to well outside of his defined nich, or his defined niche is to dominant and thus removes strategic diversity, all 3 options are problematic.