I was wrong Riot, I take everything back

Mira Arya Enthe·Nov 9, 2016·40 votes·2,725 views

New jungle is AMAZING! So far it is a straight buff to Shyvana's clear and gameplay. She can get even more gold and EXP faster. On top of that it is just more fun and interesting to clear. Plants are actually pretty damn cool, very predictable and not obnoxious. Most of the time blast plants are used just for mobility, wall hopping and lolz. Healing ones are decent since they slow they are not OP, slightly a noob trap when being chased which is nice. The vision ones are a bit OP, especially against Teemo shrooms and other stealth mechanics. However overall, thumbs up! 10/10. I actually REALLY like the new jungle, it is intuitive, simple but complex, and allows for more team interaction and less time wasted farming.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

63 Comments

TyrekGoldenspearNov 9, 201617 votes

Hey nice, we are both happy this preseason.

You and Shyvana are happy with the new jungle.

Me and Leona are happy with the new items and keystones. XD

Guess that's why they say, "Don't knock it till you try it."

Mira Arya EntheNov 9, 201610 votes

I play Leo too. She us even tougher to crack now.

TyrekGoldenspearNov 9, 20166 votes

No kidding!

I just got out of a game as Leo.

I was jumped by their whole team in a teamfight when my team retreated from an engage.

I had time to land my ult when I hit less than 1/5 of my health left and the shield was so fat I survived the whole 3 seconds of their focused fire and my team got there in time to save me.

This mastery rocks!

IcyPepperNov 9, 20164 votes

Are you telling me that support tanks can... tank?!

TyrekGoldenspearNov 10, 20161 votes

Yes.

Yes they can. :D

NightmareAmazoXNov 10, 20161 votes

And yet people are still complaining about the assassins, Especially poor Rengar.

flibitydooNov 10, 20161 votes

item 3109 is kinda nuts

it's as if your carry had a bloodthirster, but it healed you instead

Build it on any tank support, make sure to be near you carry during teamfights and be amazed when you walk out of them with full hp

CaptnJakSparrowNov 9, 201612 votes

I don't like the jungle.

I went in and did exactly what I knew I was going to do. Gain 4 levels on the enemy jungler and make him hate life.

chubs1224Nov 9, 20168 votes

I was scared the new camps would be hard on single target cleares but its not that bad chickens are a little rough but otherwise its pretty good.

TalisidNov 10, 20161 votes

Yeah single target clears can kill Blue/Red/Gromp really easily now but Raptors and Krugs are a chore.

TeemoShrooomNov 10, 20161 votes

Noc does ok but q and passive help

ProfDrDeathNov 9, 20167 votes

Actually, invade/counterjungling junglers like Shyvana benefit significantly from longer camp spawn times, as it makes stealing camps more of a punishment for the enemy.

Also, PBE Rageblade/BotRK buffs...

paisyNov 9, 20166 votes

Everyone was just overacting, happens every time Riot does major changes

IcyPepperNov 9, 20162 votes

Sometimes they're justified with those reactions, considering the disaster DQ was.

PapaGreg21Nov 9, 20164 votes

The BOTRK buffs will be even more of a boon.

KevabThePursuerNov 9, 20162 votes

You and the golems^3 can go preparing my ejecution.

midnight oil24Nov 9, 20162 votes

Glad to see someone agrees with me

MarshbouyNov 9, 20162 votes

finally. told you guys to try it before you whine about it...

Teridax68Nov 10, 20162 votes

So far the plants have turned out pretty well, yeah. I was very skeptical when they were first announced, but in practice they're actually pretty consistent, and feel more like power-ups you can access at the right time, rather than the random get-out-of-jail-free cards they looked like initially. Perhaps that kind of scenario might arise more frequently as people familiarize themselves with plants, but so far they feel like a fantastic addition to the game.

I also agree that the jungle feels a lot more interesting. It's cool to have the camps feel truly different, and it adds more gameplay to clearing them, too, which is something they really needed. I never really had an issue with the removal of Smite buffs, and the addition of a heal on Smite more than makes up for it. Riot did a phenomenal job here, I think, and deserve more praise for it.

flibitydooNov 10, 20161 votes

I actually had that scenario of using a blastcone as a get-out-of-jail free card

I was playing taric, we were losing a skirmish/teamfight near dragon, I'm isolated and lee sin starts to chase/kill me. I'm at about 40% hp. I crawl my way into the eastern jungle, and there's a blastcone outside of blue, Lee sin is literally within melee range of me (and has been following me at that range for a while), fortunately he misses his q, and I auto the plant and jump over the wall into the blue buff den while lee is bounced the other way. And it felt so nice, actually out-mobility/outplaying a champion with vastly more mobility than me.

The thing about the plants, is even if they are RNG, there's a degree of knowledge/cunning that you need to apply to actually use them right.

DarkRitualNov 10, 20161 votes

Had a similar thing. Was fleeing from red side gromp area. Turn corner past tribush, and lookie, and free escape. Plants helped my first preseason game go unkilled. 4/0/11 Leona.

They still don't feel amazing to me overall.

trash sionNov 10, 20161 votes

This is the exact reason that I hate these plants. If you make a shitty decision and get caught out, you should get punished for it. Especially in high ELO where people get caught out less, it's more likely that you'll have the opportunity to escape freely on a higher percentage of the times you get caught out because they're more spaced out and give times for more blast cones to spawn.

These plants all reward bad players. Hit a plant for a huge vision sweep if you are too bad to learn to ward individual bushes properly. Free healing if you get poked out in lane or if you don't know how to kite camps. Free escapes if you get caught out like a retard.

Punishes good players as well. Now you waste mana poking someone out, and they can run to river and heal up while only missing a few CS as a result. You warded the river and dragon thoroughly to get ready for an infernal, cleared enemy wards, etc.? Sorry, the enemy jungler didn't catch you out while you were warding, but one auto attack will let him have the same vision you just spent all that time and risk putting down and he can get rid of some of yours. Manage to catch out the enemy mid as they're roaming to bot? Sorry, they get a free escape over a wall. Guess you wasted time coming to catch them.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 10, 20162 votes

They really need to rework the honeyfruit it's breaking laners.

It would be better if honeyfruit had to be smited but refunded a charge(this way you suffer the smite CD) and they could slightly lower the heal amount to compensate, but atm it's just retardedly easy and OP for laners to even touch.

RestraintfulNov 10, 20163 votes

Oh shit! You need to adjust your laning strategy? Say it ain't so!

EcchiOtakuTMNov 12, 20161 votes

There's no adjustment to make...

GULAG 4 UNov 9, 20161 votes

But still, with the increased jungle respawn times, doesn't it force Shyvana to gank more? I don't think that's a bad thing because her Ult is basically a free insec when it isn't bugging or doing R-tarded things. But Yi on the other hand, his ganks are pretty shitty.

Mira Arya EntheNov 9, 20162 votes

Not really actually, I just went Krugs to Gromp got the Scuttle, recalled, did it again. Was lvl6, had a shit ton of gold and stole a free dragon solo.

GULAG 4 UNov 9, 20162 votes

They give more EXP now? Or is it still the same?

ZepperNov 9, 20161 votes

Yes

GULAG 4 UNov 10, 20161 votes

Well looks like farming junglers weren't getting dumped as hard as I thought

PhelasNov 10, 20161 votes

Actually thats right, played a game with Olaf jungle (still need to figure out what keystone to use, Fervor doesn't seal the deal) and even tho i lost i had about 4 levels on the enemy jungler.

Thing is, it feels like jungling is way easie once you know what are easy camps for your champ to do early and what not, and the increased spawn timers are helping a lot with pathing.

NightmareAmazoXNov 10, 20161 votes

Krugs only gives more exp & gold than other camp, Also Krugs & Gromp both spawn 15 seconds late than the other camps. Krugs gives 160 Gold & 400 XP.

Mystic ShovelNov 9, 20161 votes

overall I think its ok.

The amount of chickens there are now is a bit obnoxious - just seems silly

Russian doll Krugs is funny plus yay gold

Scrying plant is the only good one imo because of the removed raptor buff

I dunno where to start to get a leash now lol

Mira Arya EntheNov 10, 20162 votes

Explosive plant is nice for jungle mobility :)

Mystic ShovelNov 10, 20161 votes

It was funny when our 5-man dive at bot lane all went dragon, and we shared one plant and exploded our selves into the dragon pit. Was worth just for that XD

RestraintfulNov 10, 20161 votes

Blue buff > Gromp > Wolves > Red buff.

Red buff > Wolves > Gromp > Blue buff.

You do the Krugs and Raptors last as they deal the most damage and also take the most time early on.

Forhonor321Nov 9, 20161 votes

Wait, really? The new jungle is good? First let me explain that I haven't gotten around to playing today at all, mostly due to college projects and finals coming up next week, but I'm actually supersized to hear this. I'm still not sure about the plants though, mostly the knockback one since from what I can still tell marksmen can still destroy them and I can just come up with a few annoying scenarios with them, but I'll have to jump on and see for myself.

Btw where do you start now since krugs and gromp take longer to spawn?

Mira Arya EntheNov 10, 20162 votes

Plants are just kinda there, they really don't play into fights directly, more of out of fight utilities. The camp clear is amazing on Shyvana, she just blows through the new jungle. I have started Red and Red and Krugs(had an oopsy on my first game and forgot they didn't spawn till ater)

RlP K0BENov 10, 20161 votes

As someone who enjoys playing Shyvana this is great to hear. Is she still getting her mini-rework?

Zenthon PrimeNov 10, 20161 votes

Yes, and it's still very much needed.

Despite the feedback here I fully expect Shyv's winrate to drop a decent amount this patch. Her situation with masteries is many times worse than last patch (SotA removed and Fervor gutted) and the new jungle is at best a slight buff to her.

TheTrueQuarianNov 10, 20161 votes

FERVOR IS STILL GREAT I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE THINK ITS BAD D:

Mira Arya EntheNov 10, 20161 votes

Shyvana has shit AD scaling. She relies on on hit damage. Before at 8 stacks it was 118 damage tacked onto every AA. Now it is 60 at 10 stacks. Massive nerf.

PhelasNov 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3dxnXEBr,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-09T18:30:48.643+0000)

New jungle is AMAZING! So far it is a straight buff to Shyvana's clear and gameplay. She can get even more gold and EXP faster. On top of that it is just more fun and interesting to clear. Plants are actually pretty damn cool, very predictable and not obnoxious. Most of the time blast plants are used just for mobility, wall hopping and lolz. Healing ones are decent since they slow they are not OP, slightly a noob trap when being chased which is nice. The vision ones are a bit OP, especially against Teemo shrooms and other stealth mechanics. However overall, thumbs up! 10/10. I actually REALLY like the new jungle, it is intuitive, simple but complex, and allows for more team interaction and less time wasted farming.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

What Keystone did you use, and why was it fervor and what build?

Mira Arya EntheNov 10, 20162 votes

I use Grasp currently as Fervor lost it's strength on on-hit champions. Grasp works decent with my current build: item 3748 > item 1416 > item 3065 / item 3091 > item 3742 / item 3143 / item 3075 > item 3153 / item 3026 / item 3512 / item 3068

Plus boots of course.

Use to use Fervor because Shyvana hits with E/W to get stacks. Then AA-Q-AA-Titan for 5 total hits in rapid succession. Or take out the middle AA for faster hits but less DPS. Grasp is my current replacement.

PhelasNov 10, 20161 votes

Hmm so you don't use fervor because its worse on on hit champs now but buy Botrk?

Anyways thanks for your reply, i always struggle in the pre-season to find out whats good and what not.

Mira Arya EntheNov 10, 20161 votes

BotRK is her sustain item. Gives her attack speed which she loves, lifesteal which lets her sustain during split pushes, plus the on hit damage and AD is nice. The active is great since she has problems being kited. Just take their movement speed, and give it to yourself. And the minor burst of damage and healing on the active is nice. I only buy it when snowballing however, until they buff it(which they are) it is too expensive.

PhelasNov 10, 20161 votes

I might be wrong, but isn't Botrk wrong worded and does not really add the movespeed to yourself?

Anyways, I apprecciate your replys, it helps alot to find myself in the mess that this pre season has left for me tho.

Kled Man WalkingNov 10, 20161 votes

do you think stormraider's would be at all good? maybe only in certain situations where the sticking power is absolutely necessary?

DunkinNoobsNov 10, 20161 votes

I was pleasantly surprised by it too. Jungle paths are a bit more restricted than before but I don't feel like simply clearing from side to side over and over is the optimal path anymore. And counterjungling the enemy jungler is absolutely brutal now, especially if you get his red side. Raptors and Krugs give so much gold and stealing those away cripples the enemy jungler to an insane degree.

VexingRavenNov 10, 20161 votes

Wait so since when was buffing Shyvana's clear a good thing? It's always been obnoxiously fast compared to most single-target junglers, I don't think making that even stronger is evidence of a positive change.