Boards›Gameplay

I can see why Azir needed some nerfs, but he didn't need to be made into a troll pick

JMoormann··22 votes·2,229 views

I know that Azir, despite being below average for most ELOs, was strong in high ELO/pro play, and so I can understand that they wanted to tune him down a bit, especially before Worlds.. But it's pretty sad that my main has now almost become a troll pick. Looking at some stats from champion.gg:

He is not only the lowest win rate mid with his 41%, that is also the second lowest win rate in the game (only support Nunu is lower). That's lower than stuff like Kled jungle, Morde mid or even Warwick top.

Beginning players are below 35% win rate with him, but even the most experienced players (125+ games) barely reach a 50% win rate.

His pre-25 minute win rate is also below 35%: you need to reach 40 minutes for a 50% win rate.

He has a lot of matchups with below 40% win rate, and only 3 (with small sample size) above 50%.

I know a difficult and champion like Azir should be slightly below 50%, but now he is just straight up garbage (even in pro play) and I'm not even willing to play him right now in ranked.

64 Comments

Raiku Kawisa4 votes

Riot doesnt balance Champions that cause problems for LC$. They break their kneecaps and leave them on the side of the road

WolfChases3 votes

Kindred says hi.

venomous frost4 votes

Evelynn LeeSin says hi

WolfChases2 votes

Agree but they are both way better than Kindred and Azir.

BIH Diamond1 votes

Kindred has a 49% win rate in plat elo and people with 125+ games on her average a 57% win rate

Lee has a 47% win rate and people with 125+ games average a 51% win rate

How is lee much better? Prob a low elo player

WolfChases1 votes

Lee sucks dick in low elo tho so no, your point is invalid. Lee Sin shines in quick games while Kindred gets their spike later since their teamfighting potential is vetter due to ultimate. Lee Sin never had high win rate, same as Zed, Elise and Le Blanc, win rate on self dependant aka "selfish" champions is often low and it's a normal thing.

BIH Diamond1 votes

Lee sucks dick in low elo tho so no, your point is invalid

I really don't give a fuck about low elo. Below plat stats are invalid.

Lee Sin shines in quick games while Kindred gets their spike later

What? hahahaha let me guess, you're silver/gold and don't main jungle

Kindred's strength is early game. She falls off later.

. Lee Sin never had high win rate

False. I wasn't talking about normal win rate. I was talking about specifically win rate on people with 125+ games on him in plat+. Before his win rate was higher if you looked at these people

same as Zed, Elise and Le Blanc

Again, did you even read my post?

LB has a 52% on 125+ games in plat+ Zed has a 52% as well and Elise has a 53%

Yeah lee sin's win rate overall shouldn't be 50%. But if you look at specifically the stats of diamond+ players who have over 125+ games on him they still have negative win rates. These are the best players and they main the champ. Clearly not strong.

WolfChases2 votes

Who the hell on this world are you to talk with me like that? 1st of all Platinum is nowhere near the high elo, I was in Platinum as a jungle main and Platinum games are not much different than high Gold, actually Platinum is closer to Gold than Diamond. Second, I play this game since 2012 and I am 23 YO so i am not a kid without the ability to understand complex things and I know the thing or two, as someone who skipped bronze and god placed in silver 1 after provisionals and got to Platinum in 1 week. Basically the only reason I am not ranking now is DynamicQue and the arm injury (I damaged my hand in the gym) and I can barely handle 1-3 games a day. Every single time I see you on boards you are so arrogant and you act like you are SKT coach.

And one more thing. Why do you always have to point out that someone is Bronze or Silver? Even pros were in Silver at one point and there's nothing bad at it. Should I call someone a Silver because I was in Platinum maybe? Wait...I started in Silver as well... You are literally acting like a ignorant kid.

RazorBladesss3 votes

As someone who recently accidentally mained Azir for the past 2 weeks (I'm a jungle main and he somehow toppled my Vi mastery points) I wish he was a little stronger. I say he suffers from the Aurellion Sol effect. Really good with practice but gutter trash if you're knew and don't know the combos (It'd be more accurate to say Sol suffers from the Azir Effect). I absolutely love Azir's kit and the fun you can have with him but he's not a strong pick. I really want to take him ranked but Simpler champions like Annie just dominate him. If the champion is sufficiently complicated and needs skill then i dont mind if they're a little strong. I have a friend who mains Taliyah and he does consistently well with her, he pretty much gets first blood every game. I say give azir just a bit more damage or just enough of a slow on Q to get 3 autos off if you're good.

venomous frost2 votes

He needs parts deleted from his kit to be balanced

But they prolly won't do anything yet before world's has ended because they don't want to risk another 100% pick/ban azir viktor midlane

RcGjWO640w2 votes

Azir's overall kit is just insanely hard to balance. If he's balanced for soloqueue, he would be the single most powerful champion in the game in LCS play. If he's balanced for LCS, he essentially becomes a troll pick in soloqueue.

Unfortunately, Riot tends to the later. They don't care if a champion is completely unplayable in soloqueue, so long as it doesn't dominate the competitive scene. It's so sad, too, considering he's legitimately one of the most fun champions to play.

JMoormann4 votes

The thing is, currently he is even weak in LCS. Since his nerfs he hasn't been picked or banned even once.

Subject 52 votes

{quoted}

Azir's overall kit is just insanely hard to balance. If he's balanced for soloqueue, he would be the single most powerful champion in the game in LCS play. If he's balanced for LCS, he essentially becomes a troll pick in soloqueue.

Unfortunately, Riot tends to the later. They don't care if a champion is completely unplayable in soloqueue, so long as it doesn't dominate the competitive scene. It's so sad, too, considering he's legitimately one of the most fun champions to play.

Yeah, playing with every tool the game has to offer in sandbox mode like garry's mod is a lot of fun.

Jokes aside though, this dude is just too good at pretty much everything. The only thing he is really missing is sustain/heal- but otherwise . . .

RcGjWO640w1 votes

Azir has a lot of weakness' actually when you get down to playing him. His kit is versatile, but also limited. All of his abilities have multiple uses but those multiple uses all share the same cooldown. It's not like playing Nidalee or Elise where you can blow all of your cooldowns in one form then swap to the other, rinse and repeat. Azir doesn't get that luxury.

Azir has to play incredibly smart. If he uses his Q for poke or harass, then he won't have it up as an escape when he needs it. If he uses his abilities defensively, he's lacking a lot of damage as a result. Azir is super squishy, too. Like, nearly Anivia levels of squish and he doesn't have the same benefit of building a RoA that she might.

He has a very, very particular build path to reach his power spike for the mid game which is at very least a item 3116 or most preferably a item 3115 with it too. That's a very expensive powerspike and before that, all Azir can really do is be annoying in lane with his soldiers. He has no kill pressure and pre-6, ganking for him is really hard too because he lacks meaningful burst damage in his kit. If you try to build a item 3027, yes, he gets more defensive stats and it's a great item on him, but by that point you're gunning for the late game and hoping you don't lose before then because Azir almost completely lacks teamfight utility other than damage.

Azir relies on not getting caught to do work. Anyone on the enemy team with a gap closer or some other kind of movement ability will just dumpster him so hard. Tanks, Assassins, doesn't matter, anyone can kill him and he can only ult once. If he gets reengaged on or is slowed before he can ult and doesn't have the cooldowns for a drift, then they'll just walk around his wall and kill him.

TL;DR, Most Azir mains play him a lot, which is why we're not complete garbage with him, but his mechanics are still extremely difficult to master and he has a lot of weaknesses being an immobile, squishy, sustained damage dealing mage with almost no burst potential. He has the capacity to perform a lot of different maneuvers and tricks, but only enough cooldowns to do 1 or 2 before being dead in the water afterwards.

Dr Poro2 votes

He wasn't even picked in the LCS at all. I think a minor buff would be justified in this case. Perhaps rito wants a Worlds without Azir this time.

Sohleks2 votes

Throw one out to Azir.

Nerf Rylias buff Azir.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Not like nobody could tell, how it was going to unfold, based on how Riot was nerfing him in the past.

Anybody remembers post-rework Kassadin?

First they nerfed all of his base spells, which did absolutely nothing, then they nerfed his ult which was the actual problem, but when they did that he became a troll pick with no damage and was left in the gutter for months, because reverting nerfs on his basic abilities was too logical.

Same shit with Azir. They were beating around the bush for so long, he was put down in the ground, instead of addressing the actual problem, which would allow him to be at least semi-balanced, without being Akali-type of balance, aka "It's balanced as long as you never get to play against it".

Don't get me wrong on the last part. I don't mind the fact, nobody plays Akali. She's still just as cancerous as she was before having her AR/MR removed from the cloud and E not procing Q.

Wheatloaf2 votes

Unfortunately, he's nigh-impossible to balance for both competitive and soloQ in his current state. He needs some actual mechanical changes to his kit, however uneasy that makes me. Dunno how long we'll have to wait for that.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Azir is just one of those champions where if they're remotely strong, they dominate pro play and his mains dumpster everyone else. Not to mention, it doesn't take much on Azir to make laning phase completely uninteractable for the enemy laner.

WoonStruck2 votes

Actually, he does deserve to be a troll pick.

Just like Poppy did.

He needs a rework; he's a hypercarry that essentially has no way to address what he can do gameplay-wise if he's ever in a decent spot.

Even pre-rework Poppy didn't have her winrate lowered to Azir's current level to not basically sway how every game was played. I think that's saying something. **He deserves a rework MORE than the original Poppy. **

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Actually, he does deserve to be a troll pick.

Just like Poppy did.

Like you.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Actually, he does deserve to be a troll pick.

Just like Poppy did.

Did you like your downvotes troll and hater?

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Actually, he does deserve to be a troll pick.

Just like Poppy did.

He needs a rework; he's a hypercarry that essentially has no way to address what he can do gameplay-wise if he's ever in a decent spot.

Even pre-rework Poppy didn't have her winrate lowered to Azir's current level to not basically sway how every game was played. I think that's saying something. **He deserves a rework MORE than the original Poppy. **

Poppy's win rate wasn't low.It was 46%.He doesn't need rework.Don't cry salty Azir hater.

Follow changes and meta or shut up.People don't need your wrong infos.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Poppy's win rate wasn't low.It was 46%.He doesn't need rework.Don't cry salty Azir hater.

I said her win-rate didn't have to be lowered to the level of what Azir's had to be for her to not ruin games...lol.

Its an obvious indicator of him being in dire need of a rework.

I'm not a salty Azir hater. I'm simply reasonable, unlike you. Stay biased. Seems like you're the one crying. :)

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

I said her win-rate didn't have to be lowered to the level of what Azir's had to be for her to not ruin games...lol.

Its an obvious indicator of him being in dire need of a rework.

I'm not a salty Azir hater. I'm simply reasonable, unlike you. Stay biased. Seems like you're the one crying. :)

46% win rate is very good for Poppy.Also 46% win rate isn't low but you said her win rate is low.Ok ok! Sure.

Yes you're salty Azir hater.Also liar.

''Actually, he does deserve to be a troll pick.''

Salt is real.Don't deny.Cry more.

Edit:You're salty every time.I discussed about same topic previously.No problem.You downvote me and then I will downvote your all comments.

WoonStruck1 votes

Anything under 47% is considered low, just like anything above 53% is considered very high.

If Poppy deserved to be a troll pick because her ultimate removed gameplay options for the enemy team, along with being a hypercarry, then Azir deserves so doubly. He's a thousand times safer than she ever was, not to mention the bully potential in lane any time he's decent.

He needs a rework. Close those r34 Azir tabs and fanfics and listen to a little logic. Jesus.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Anything under 47% is considered low, just like anything above 53% is considered very high.

If Poppy deserved to be a troll pick because her ultimate removed gameplay options for the enemy team, along with being a hypercarry, then Azir deserves so doubly. He's a thousand times safer than she ever was, not to mention the bully potential in lane any time he's decent.

He needs a rework. Close those r34 Azir pages and fanfics and listen to a little logic. Jesus.

47% isn't low for high skill champion.False 1. 53% isn't high for low skill champion.False 2. Azir isn't dominated in low win rates so he doesn't need rework.False 3. You're salty and liar.True 1.

I'm honest but you? Hmm.

WoonStruck1 votes

Edit:You're salty every time.I discussed about same topic previously.No problem.You downvote me and then I will downvote your all comments.

Actually, I don't even downvote you anymore. You attract downvotes like dung attracts flies. I don't even need to put forth the effort and it'll come true anyway.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Actually, I don't even downvote you anymore. You attract downvotes like dung attracts flies. I don't even need to put forth the effort and it'll come true anyway.

Ok ok sure.Absolutely.Anyway my point stays.

Aptest2 votes

I feel that Azir has been nerfed incorrectly.

Most of his issues could have been resolved by reducing his ranges: Basically by reducing the ranges on his entire spell kit he could have retained most of his kit while losing considerable power and having a more cohesive kit.

Instead he got other nerfs. A shame.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

I feel that Azir has been nerfed incorrectly.

Most of his issues could have been resolved by reducing his ranges: Basically by reducing the ranges on his entire spell kit he could have retained most of his kit while losing considerable power and having a more cohesive kit.

Instead he got other nerfs. A shame.

Very true so I don't want some guys for balance team.

SwiftKitten881 votes

Nidalee is only 3% higher than Azir .. so i feel your pain from LCS nerfs too. but at least azir nerfs were NEEDED, (not as many as they DID, but some of them) and was op in every elo nid was actually WEAK in lower elos, (although the compensation for the auto reset removal helped a lot)

JMoormann6 votes

Azir's win rate in pretty much every ELO aside from master+ was also around 46%. "OP in every ELO" is just false.

Troll for Trump3 votes

Azir's just really annoying to deal with during laning. He bullies in a uninteractive way, like pre-rework Yorick. It's stupid, if you're playing a melee champ.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Azir's just really annoying to deal with during laning. He bullies in a uninteractive way, like pre-rework Yorick. It's stupid, if you're playing a melee champ.

Mid lane and melee champ? All melee champs are in deep water against ranged champions.

Jungle Lux God2 votes

Zed Are you sure about that?

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

Zed Are you sure about that?

Azir isn't strong against Zed.Meanwhile Zed has ranged skills.Moreover Azir's ult can not stop Zed's moves because his skills are blink.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

{quoted}

Mid lane and melee champ? All melee champs are in deep water against ranged champions.

This is about melee vs ranged, not Zed vs Azir.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

This is about melee vs ranged, not Zed vs Azir.

You said Zed and this is Azir thread.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

You said:

{quoted}

Mid lane and melee champ? All melee champs are in deep water against ranged champions.

To which I responded

{quoted}

Zed Are you sure about that?

If you are viewing this thread in chronological view, then you might want to switch to the discussion view, because in the discussion view you made yourself look really stupid.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

You said:

To which I responded

If you are viewing this thread in chronological view, then you might want to switch to the discussion view, because in the discussion view you made yourself look really stupid.

Zed isn't in deep water against Azir because Zed is big counter for Azir.You don't know the game.So learn it.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

At least I'm not the moron who said all melee champions were in deep water against melee champions and then give your own counter example of saying Zed is a big counter for Azir.

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

At least I'm not the moron who said all melee champions were in deep water against melee champions and then give your own counter example of saying Zed is a big counter for Azir.

I'm not Azir hater and salty.At least I'm not idiot.At least I can understand some things.I'm still saying all melee champions were in deep water against melee champions.Zed is exception you idiotic lifeform.

Jungle Lux God2 votes

Here's a definition you might like to read:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generalizing

Troll for Trump3 votes

Yes, but they can beat them(when they do, the ranged champs complain about it). It shouldn't just be flat-out "ranged vs melee, the melee is fked"

Lord Azır2 votes

{quoted}

Azir's just really annoying to deal with during laning. He bullies in a uninteractive way, like pre-rework Yorick. It's stupid, if you're playing a melee champ.

Taliyah is much more annoying to play against as a Melee champ than Azir. She basically gets to land her W, E combo for free every single time you try to last hit and it does around 50% of your HP.

Troll for Trump2 votes

However, Taliyah has no mobility, and you can actually hide behind minions to stop her Q. Azir has sorta like a invisible circle, where if you step into the circle, you're going to get hurt. Also, he zones you away from your own caster minions.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by JMoormann

I've mained Camille since season 1 and these changes will destroy her
Memes & Games86 comments
519
votes
Me while reading through all Dynamic Queue complaints
Memes & Games89 comments
183
votes
"We want a hard MMR reset, we don't care about the matches being unbalanced for a while"
Gameplay135 comments
171
votes
The Azir R nerfs will only make him more unforgiving and harder to pick up
Gameplay157 comments
134
votes
Now that Dynamic Queue will be gone...
Memes & Games70 comments
119
votes
Giving every single mage access to mobility seems a really dangerous idea...
Gameplay105 comments
101
votes