It's dumb not having Tanks, after realizing your adc keeps dying because they can't hide behind something. Please bring back tanks back in the meta, WITH CC hardcore CC.
RiotRiot MapleNectar45 votesWe're going to be touching on the state of tanks in Quick Gameplay Thoughts tomorrow, and likely trying some really targeted buffs to a handful in 8.16.
GigglesO30 votesWe kindof need a tank item overhaul, alot of tank items are slot, and gold inefficient. There are also alot of champions like 
who need a little tankiness that just isn't available right now.
For my example of morde, I used to build some defense so I could get to them, but now with defense purchase being unviable (since I still get one shot through them) I build pure damage, and am now just an ulti bot (which isn't nearly as exciting as being able to duke one out and manage my q w e cd's).
If we had a reason to build reasonably balanced defense on multiple classes (including adc's, assassins) it would tone the game down considerably since everyone wouldn't be building pure glass cannon.
TLDR: Please don't just choose a few tanks to make viable, please work on defense itemization.
RiotRiot MapleNectar35 votesGiven the conversations around rate of change and the pain that's caused people, I can definitely say that we won't be able to do a tank item overhaul anytime soon. That being said, there might be some smaller tweaks to increase their slot efficiency that make building them feel more viable for both tanks and off tanks. Or if we're able to effectively siphon some damage from the game while not totally sacrificing lethality (not the stat) that could just naturally help with your noted problem. I do think that your Morde example is a really solid one fwiw btw.
TheSingularity3 votesI feel you should increase costs but also stats. We need our own version of rabadons. Old randuins and warmogs are good example. But also frozen heart could easily have it's armor doubled then a cost increase to 3000 (since armor is so ineffectual compared to magic resist)
beany11 votesIsn't the whole reason for tank item changes because tanks bought one item and drastically reduced the chances of killing them in lane? Even though conqueror and new last whisper exists I hope you don't attempt to swing the pendulum so far that we go back to square one.
GigglesO5 votesThere is also no longer starting armor/ MR with runes, so you can’t really get as tanky in lane phase. You also can’t get as tanky late game because the way the new runes work.
GigglesO5 votesThank you for finally taking the time to discuss this with the community, and for looking into ways to bring back a little sanity to this one shot meta. I know the defense community appreciates it.
Fízz v22 votesTanks should still get outscaled when peopl start getting a lot of damage + Last Whisper/Void Staff tho, so dont make them too efficient. They just shouldnt get outscaled at minute 5-10 by Conqueror champs lul.
Also AP assassins still need items FeelsBadMan 
Kelg13 votes[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=0002000000000006,timestamp=2018-07-27T09:20:51.520+0000) Also AP assassins still need items FeelsBadMan
[sg-lux-2]
FuzzyLumps4 votesI honestly don't know if the rate of change is the biggest problem. I think it might have more to do with disagreement of the direction the change is taking the game. We've seen tanks get damage buffs and defense is nothing like it used to be because of the damage creep. If the game was rebalanced to have better defined classes which followed balanced damage outputs and defensive stats, while every class would have positives and draw backs to playing them, people would be more satisfied. Even if the change was drastic. We need tanks to tank and set up plays. Not 1v1 the ADC.
Blåbæret1 votesThe problem is that Riot decided to rework tanks and their items for no apparent reason and now the items are pure garbage thanks to the tank rework no one asked for.
AirKingNeo3 votesyeah but tank stats are purposefully gold inefficient because the stat is more power than it's gold value, similar to CDR.
To put a perspective on it, Longsword is 10 AD for 350 gold while Cloth Armor is 15 armor for 300 gold.
Plus, if anything, we've learned from tank metas that tank items being so cheap is an issue and allows funneling ADCs to be easier.
Also, Mundo and Poppy are fine picks right now.
GigglesO3 votesAll I have to say is Gold Inefficient isn't the same as slot efficient I asked for Riot to consider both. They maybe need some tuning.
Also, we need appropriate tradeoffs for adc's mages and assassins to have tank items. Historically they didn't lose much because their base damages were too high.
2 picks is not the whole class.
AirKingNeo1 votesAlso, we need appropriate tradeoffs for adc's mages and assassins to have tank items. Historically they didn't lose much because their base damages were too high.
Hmmm, no? These classes have low base damage (especially ADC) making tank items impossible for them.
All I have to say is Gold Inefficient isn't the same as slot efficient I asked for Riot to consider both. They maybe need some tuning.
I'd like to see tank items shoot up in price, even if their stats get increased a bit, but before that I'd like Longsword and Cloth Armor to both be 400 gold. Longswords early is just a little power, and making Cloth 400 gold will make gold efficiency less misleading while also help balancing out the prices for top lane between bruisers and tanks.
GigglesO2 votesYou must have missed rank akali, Ekko, zed, Yasuo, talon, rengar and etc where they still has the most damage with pure tank items. They had high base damages and could still trade well just building tank.
AirKingNeo1 votesSeason 6 ended
GigglesO1 votesThat season still shows the importance of trade offs, because otherwise you just get it all.
AirKingNeo1 votesok? tank items on assassin don't exist anymore.
GigglesO1 votesYou completely missed that I think it should be healthy for assassins and adcs to be able to pick up 1 defensive item. I also think it should have a trade off. For that matter I don’t think that anything being able to one shot through a defense item is healthy for this game.
Sure one defense item shouldn’t negate the damage that an assassin deals, but I also shouldn’t be one shottable through it.
AirKingNeo1 votesYou must have missed rank akali, Ekko, zed, Yasuo, talon, rengar and etc where they still has the most damage with pure tank items. They had high base damages and could still trade well just building tank.
This is what you literally said. "...the most damage with pure tank items." You're trying to change the direction into "damage builds with 1 tank item", which is odd for 2 reasons being that wasn't the topic and league is moving away from other classes buying a tank item on the side because it wasn't as interesting.
GigglesO1 votesIt was more interesting than everyone just one shotting.
Also some of those champs were building only one damage item, and still having the most damage.
AirKingNeo1 votessaying the phrase "Sunfire Iceborn" just puts shivers down my spine
and both one-shot meta of the present and tank meta of the past are equally as uninteresting.
GigglesO1 votesAnd iceborn is a damage item. We need defense that has an actual trade offs. 20%CDR and bonus damage on hit... that’s damage creep at work.
Sunfire stacking in season 8 probably also wouldn’t work even if it was stackable.
Have you been reading anything I say about strategic trade offs?
kile1471 votesBut Assassins are useless if they don't one shot, because any damage they deal is going to be healed back immediately.
GigglesO1 votesFalse, they can still be janitors, and if it’s 2v1 because of a support, assassins shouldn’t win. If the adc is building a tank item you should be able to just prolong the fight with auto attacks without them instantly killing you.
kile1471 votesI don't think they should win 2v1, but how can assassins be janitors without fights actually leaving people low health? Everyone is healing back to full very quickly these days, so the window for cleanup after a fight is pretty minuscule.
To be clear, I don't think Assassins need buffs or that ADC's are ok right now. I just think that the original goals that they had during the assassin reworks awhile back were good goals, and the reason "delayed burst" wasn't successful is that the current meta heavily favors frontloaded 100-0 damage. I think that reducing healing would be a good step towards changing that meta, because it would make 100-20 a more meaningful action, and would make assassins less binary.
Blue Moon Wolf2 votesHas there been any news about Wukong to pass along? How you think he's performing after his nerf, if there are any teams thinking about working on his update, ideas that you may want to try out with him or something?
RiotRiot MapleNectar19 votesNo news as of right now. I personally play a fair bit of WK, and don't feel particularly great about his play pattern atm (just build pure assassin and murder any squishy dude you find), but unfortunately, my team doesn't have the time atm to take on larger work for him. If we could though, I'd be interested if we could make him more of a fighter than an assassin since I always thought he was more fun with you got to take passes on your opponent before finishing them off. Whether that's removing some of his ad scaling on abilities, giving him more hp/resists and rejigging some of his cds to account for it. Sorry, my thoughts on WK are super underdeveloped and that reply probably sounds incredibly surface level. What do you think of him in his current state?
Vectros2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-27T02:26:59.286+0000)
No news as of right now. I personally play a fair bit of WK, and don't feel particularly great about his play pattern atm (just build pure assassin and murder any squishy dude you find), but unfortunately, my team doesn't have the time atm to take on larger work for him. If we could though, I'd be interested if we could make him more of a fighter than an assassin since I always thought he was more fun with you got to take passes on your opponent before finishing them off. Whether that's removing some of his ad scaling on abilities, giving him more hp/resists and rejigging some of his cds to account for it. Sorry, my thoughts on WK are super underdeveloped and that reply probably sounds incredibly surface level. What do you think of him in his current state?
I want to start off by saying, thank you for talking so much-I do appreciate it.
I always felt he was more of a fighter, with a better mobility than other champions and trickery with W to help stay alive longer. I say this realizing you guys aren't working on it yet, but if the word gets along, I think lowering his burst damage but upping DPS is the way to go-lower ratios on Q/E with higher bases, maybe throw in some HP scaling? Increase damage ratio on Ultimate-late game it doesn't feel like it does enough. This would take away his popping capabilities, but add to his team fight strength. Upping his passive/maybe adding some sort of ratio could be good to further these ideas.
Teridax6812 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-27T02:26:59.286+0000)
Sorry, my thoughts on WK are super underdeveloped and that reply probably sounds incredibly surface level. What do you think of him in his current state?
I'm not a Wukong player, but I feel this is asking the wrong question. Up until very recently, Wukong largely felt weak and unsatisfying, with many threads on here pointing out just that. Around the time of the marksman mini-update, though, Wukong started becoming overbearing, namely because people seemed to have figured out how to abuse front-loaded burst builds using his stealth and mobility. In the end, he's still a champion many players find dissatisfying, but his core issues right now appear to stem from features like Duskblade and Electrocute, both of which have themselves earned heavy criticism. Quinn also seems to be a similar case in parallel, as she went from weaksauce to far too strong once she got to stack Stormrazor + Statikk Shiv + Duskblade for maximum front-loaded burst. Because of this, it might be better to target the offending items and runes, rather than the champions themselves, in order to make Wukong healthier in the short-term, and in a manner that won't backfire a few months down the line.
BadgerDrool2 votesDefinitely a very insightful post here by Teridax68.
Wukong is operating as a rune and item delivery system at present. Obvious concern should be that his kit is weak design wise and needs adjustment/rework.
AtheosisX3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2018-07-27T02:26:59.286+0000)
No news as of right now. I personally play a fair bit of WK, and don't feel particularly great about his play pattern atm (just build pure assassin and murder any squishy dude you find), but unfortunately, my team doesn't have the time atm to take on larger work for him. If we could though, I'd be interested if we could make him more of a fighter than an assassin since I always thought he was more fun with you got to take passes on your opponent before finishing them off. Whether that's removing some of his ad scaling on abilities, giving him more hp/resists and rejigging some of his cds to account for it. Sorry, my thoughts on WK are super underdeveloped and that reply probably sounds incredibly surface level. What do you think of him in his current state?
Wukong is the poster child for what's wrong with the game right now. He just dives onto a squishy and they die. And given his ability to do it from a short duration stealth, the counterplay is close to zero. You guys really need to look at Duskblade and Electrocute. Those two things have created quite a mess in my opinion.
LORDCRUSHINGT0N1 votesthink he needs a new passive and thats about it
NemeBro3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-27T01:42:55.315+0000)
We're going to be touching on the state of tanks in Quick Gameplay Thoughts tomorrow, and likely trying some really targeted buffs to a handful in 8.16.
Are you going to be finally changing Shen's ult so that he can be playable in solo queue without being broken in the LCS?
Sett a trap4 votesHave you considered that your wide sweeping balance changes alienate a large portion of the player base? Like people who main tanks?
Rexxiee2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-27T01:42:55.315+0000)
We're going to be touching on the state of tanks in Quick Gameplay Thoughts tomorrow, and likely trying some really targeted buffs to a handful in 8.16.
Please dont make tanks auto win vs bruisers again in lane for the love of god.
LemurMonster1 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-27T01:42:55.315+0000)
We're going to be touching on the state of tanks in Quick Gameplay Thoughts tomorrow, and likely trying some really targeted buffs to a handful in 8.16.
Anything for 
? He isnt really a tank but not doing so well in this burst meta. He needs a little tankiness because of how unfair it is for squishes.
Daddy Ants8 votesAnything for
Let's not buff Gnar, there's an idea.
Daddy Ants3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QlY40r0,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-27T01:42:55.315+0000)
We're going to be touching on the state of tanks in Quick Gameplay Thoughts tomorrow, and likely trying some really targeted buffs to a handful in 8.16.
What about banning 
and 
from being purchased together?
Give them the 
treatment.... One or the other, not both.
Deez Crits4 votesI don't think this makes as much sense as making the bonus damage a unique passive. The other bonuses granted from the items are too distinct to disallow building one.
The relationship between stormrazor and duskblade should be treated as 
and 
rather than and
OneMummyBoi2 votesPlease help amumu thank you
Daddy Ants14 votes@Maple
If you're going to buff Tanks.
For the love of god don't give them MORE damage.
More damage is not going to fix tanks.
T Captain T8 votesI miss when tanks were actual tanks, tanking damage and disrupting the enemy with CC, setting up fights and peeling hard for their carries. This game is a shitfest now. I'm not into this 1 shot meta.
SpecterVonBaren6 votesThis isn't a problem with tanks, its a problem with people being selfish and not playing a tank because they want to be the carry. Look at ARAM and how there can be a team with four damage dealers and a Malphite and the Malphite will STILL go AP despite the team being better off with a tank.
GigglesO8 votesI want to put defense items on champions like rek'sai, hecarim, morde, garen, darius, trundle, xin... but realistically its better to just build 1 shot, because building defense means I still lose the trade. Hell, I stopped playing 99% of the champs I played in past seasons just because of defense slowly being nerfed every season.
Poro Lord4 votesToo true.
I think it is fun being a good CC tank.
But a lot of people, it's Carry Or Bust!
Daddy Ants2 votesI never thought I'd say this...
I miss Tanks....
I miss them because I no longer have a meat shield to protect me in teamfights.
CppL2 votesYou still have mundo
SithesisLord6 votesMundo isn´t a tank.
My Waifu Vanilla1 voteshe specified meat shield which mundo is the meatiest boi of them all
