Everyone is bronze. Embrace it! What is your secret score?

Occams Raiser··13 votes·2,497 views

I look at my post game sometimes when my team has done a good job. I see that because of the mmr points and the randomness of the game, it almost doesn't matter what rank someone. Relative to pro players there really seems like there is only three levels of play. You have pro players and "could be (less than 3%) soon", the upper echelon of people that are noticeably excellent but not pro players (less than 10%), and then there is everyone else (the remaining %87). I might even be padding these numbers from what I see time to time. Why do we even get up in arms over bad players. Compared to "Legit" players, its like a bunch of monkeys fighting over who goes up against the Silver back and human with the hand gun. GOLD getting mad at BRONZE is the definition of a lack of perspective.

We should try to ease up on everyone. EXCEPT THE TROLLS! DASH THEM ON THE ROCKS!

48 Comments

IEATLIVEPUPPIES11 votes

I think the problem with Bronze and Silver is that there can be a huge skill discrepancy between any given players. That makes winning or losing much more up to chance. It also makes it really frustrating to try to escape low mmr. Sometimes you just get put in game after game with a team that you feel is always going to lose unless you really are pro and can carry really hard.

A week or so ago I played 3 games in a row where one of my teammates went afk. One of them was still a victory because the other team was so bad. So in that particular victory, the teams were so unbalanced that our 5th person won without even being there. When things like that happen it just seems like you have to be really good or really lucky to escape bronze and silver.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I have had this happen as well. I was on a team where a Wu Kong convinced three of us to keep playing when we had a player drop and never come back. This dude was enough of a player to compensate for the missing player when it came to push, but why did the other team not split push like our Wu did while we fought? The three of us were able to fight 5 other people? I guess he wasn't the only bad ass. But in reality most any other team would have seen the difference, changed tactics and made it a race to push leaving us short one man in team fights with our strongest member away splitting. They did not think to do that. They were a below average team. That is the truth. People like to acted like this isn't case. II wonder how many comments will allude to this on my thread.

Spacesuit Spiff6 votes

That's a pretty meaningless distinction tbh. There are differences between every tier; once you hit Gold people start going for objectives instead of playing CoD in the jungle, once you hit Plat people understand how to close out games instead of competing in some sort of "olympics of throwing".

Lt Cuddles1 votes

This a thousand times, +1.

Celeste Benal1 votes

Why then, since I much prefer to go get the objectives and win a game, am I in Bronze 5 instead of Diamond anything?

Ethri3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Celeste Benal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QHKIvM3,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2015-03-16T20:55:56.326+0000)

Why then, since I much prefer to go get the objectives and win a game, am I in Bronze 5 instead of Diamond anything?

People just have a tendency to say that Bronze players aren't taking objectives well enough (because a lot of players will try too hard to get kills when they could be using their time better). Though, objectives aren't everything (especially after the Dragon stopped giving team gold).

This game is really about optimized time management, area control, abusing mistakes, awareness, teamwork, and precise movement/ skill usage. I guess you could consider item builds as a controlling factor but I won't go into that.

Time management can refer to summoner spell cooldowns, jungle buffs, objective timers, ward timers, skill timers, how long it takes to walk from point A to point B, enemy jungle pathing. It also refers to knowing how to optimize gold in a certain time frame (without hurting your team... which can be tricky especially in lower elos). Area control is basically how much vision you have and how you can zone your enemies. This could be referring to destroyed towers, pushing minions, setting up wards for kills, zoning in lane. Abusing mistakes is probably one of the lesser known ones since you need to factor a lot into what a mistake is. The enemy using a summoner spell, ultimate, or a long cooldown skill counts as a mistake. Not realizing the enemy has an item advantage, or losing a trade is considered a mistake. Not respecting enemy catch potential. There are a lot of things to consider here, so I think I'm missing quite a few. Though these are usually abused more as you go higher up, and often result in kills if the person uses their skills well.
Awareness is fairly obvious, but probably one of the hardest things to pull off consistently. What is the enemy thinking? Where could the enemy be? What skills can they use, how can I dodge them? Where is the enemy team? What skills can hit me from the fog? Could the be in X bush or behind Y wall. Who is visible on our team and is pushing (aka the person the enemy team will try to kill)? Also awareness of game time as seen in time management. Teamwork is something that I don't think I should go into too much since I rarely see it happen below silver 2. Though keep in mind how ally skills can interact, how mobile ally champions are to catch up to you, and how you can use your skills to compliment others. Also, keep note of ally skill cooldowns, ults, summoners, hp, and mana if possible. Precise movement/ Skill Usage Not too relevant until higher elos. Though if you are experiences with a champion you should know how to use their skills well ping/ fps permitting. For example, Lulu ult to cancel a Jayce "To the Skies" would be an effective 900hp+ as opposed to a Lulu ult by itself being only an effective 600hp. Precise movement refers to dodging/ breaking line of sight/ positioning. Though you usually won't see people purposely breaking line of sight for damage advantage until much higher up.

TLDR: There is a lot to the game to be considered. It is not just kills and objectives. A lot of people know it, though cannot perform consistently so they end up below diamond. Low-mid diamond players can perform somewhat consistently and have to start working on precise movement/ skill usage to a much finer degree. Bronze-Platinum is basically how many of these skills a player has and how often they can perform them.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Good post. You thought about this a bit. Feels good when you are on a team where you can trust random strangers to have your back by the time you get out the laning phase. It makes LOL feel like a totally different game.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Because there is no such thing as "ELO hell". LOL. The hell that truly exist should be called something new. "The Hell of not being able to win in spite of trolls and people who play so bad you think they are trolls." People comment on my record as though you can look at post game numbers and tell if someone sucks. LOL. Juvenile. And the funny part about it is, I have already admitted I suck IN THE POST!

Kitten of Evil5 votes

The other problem is that in solo queue, to reliably rise in ranks you have to carry and lead your team. You could be an amazing support and it still wouldn't matter if your ADC keeps getting caught out of position or your team fails to contest objectives, or you could be a great tank who initiates well, only to die when your team doesn't follow up.

It's extremely frustrating to rise in the ladder in certain roles, but at the same time we insist that someone play those roles.

Biffolo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QHKIvM3,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-03-15T22:05:16.714+0000)

The other problem is that in solo queue, to reliably rise in ranks you have to carry and lead your team. You could be an amazing support and it still wouldn't matter if your ADC keeps getting caught out of position or your team fails to contest objectives, or you could be a great tank who initiates well, only to die when your team doesn't follow up.

It's extremely frustrating to rise in the ladder in certain roles, but at the same time we insist that someone play those roles. It's not frustrating at all to climb as a support/tank roll. You just carry with the mentality of get other shit fed, instead of get myself fed.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

It's not frustrating at all to climb as a support/tank roll. You just carry with the mentality of get other shit fed, instead of get myself fed.

Speak for yourself. I mained support back in Season 3 and found it so frustrating to try to climb that I quit ranked until this season. Unlike a carry, who can directly ensure enemies die and objectives fall, as support I'm limited to indirectly helping -- healing people who then use that extra HP to fight, CCing enemies so my carries might be able to kill them, or warding to give vision so that we might fight better.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" sums up the support experience. And don't get me wrong, when you're paired with a great ADC, it's incredibly fun.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I see by pick rates in earlier seasons that there are few support champs that can get you out of low tiers.

Biffolo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QHKIvM3,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-03-16T21:21:25.513+0000)

Speak for yourself. I mained support back in Season 3 and found it so frustrating to try to climb that I quit ranked until this season. Unlike a carry, who can directly ensure enemies die and objectives fall, as support I'm limited to indirectly helping -- healing people who then use that extra HP to fight, CCing enemies so my carries might be able to kill them, or warding to give vision so that we might fight better.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" sums up the support experience. And don't get me wrong, when you're paired with a great ADC, it's incredibly fun.

You just need to go about it differently. Just play things that have unmistakable engage patterns and you will be fine for a starter.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I've just gone Anivia. She can mid, support, or sometimes top and do well.

Biffolo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QHKIvM3,comment-id=00050000000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-17T02:28:14.826+0000)

I've just gone Anivia. She can mid, support, or sometimes top and do well.

And this has to do with things how?

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I honestly don't remember where I was going with that... I must have been on Boards at the end of St. Patrick's Day.

Biffolo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3QHKIvM3,comment-id=0005000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-18T20:47:10.948+0000)

I honestly don't remember where I was going with that... I must have been on Boards at the end of St. Patrick's Day.

Hm. All good XD

Celeste Benal1 votes

This. This is the biggest problem. It is very hard to win when you get one player that is terrible and feeds kills, another that simply has a bad start, and everyone else does fine, because that fed enemy player will simply wreck everyone with little effort. Then they just ball up and push mid.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I see it all the time. One guy gets fed cause someone doesn't know how to cs under turret. How does Tryndamere get killed 6 times under turret before anyone can finish their lane and come help him? I would say he has to be trolling. Others disagree.

Troy2426214 votes

I know most will disagree but I think there is a noticeable difference between Silver and Gold, as well as Gold to Platinum.

I agree with your sentiments though. Anyone not diamond can improve pretty quickly if they'd examine their own mistakes instead of criticizing others. The problem is, this type of criticism is a defense mechanism and it's instinctual for a lot of players.

Marinaras Trench5 votes

I dont criticize others and I still don't improve :(

B3ER5 votes

Because you need to criticize yourself. You need to find fault in your mistakes and successes. Fix the faults, gain rank, get bitches.

Plastic Mem0ries1 votes

This is what we should all follow. That should be the Summoner's Motto.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I see your point. The true sentiment of my post is anyone who thinks your skill trajectory in LOL is linear and not a curve is tripping. They put us together for a reason.

I Kill Commies3 votes

At lower elo, difference in tiers means very little.

For example, look at someone who is bronze 1 with 0 LP vs someone who is bronze 1 with 90 LP. There's basically no skill difference there. The person with 0 LP could be slightly better than the person with 90 LP, or maybe the person with 90LP is just slightly better than the person with 0 LP. Either way, if you put them in game against each other you probably wouldn't notice any significant difference in skill.

But then look at someone who is diamond 1 with 0 LP vs someone who is diamond 1 with 90 LP. The person with 90 LP is way better than the person with 0 LP. If you look at ladder rankings, going from 0 to 90 LP in diamond 1 cuts your rank almost in half. In other words, high diamond 1 is almost twice as good as low diamond 1. The 90LP players would probably have a 70-80% winrate against the 0 LP players.

Basically, ranking up means more and more the higher elo you are. So going from bronze 5 to bronze 1 isn't a big deal, but going from diamond 5 to diamond 1 is a big deal. The reason that people in bronze and silver complain so much about unfair matchmaking is a direct result of the skill distribution. A player in silver 3 can be matched with another player in silver 3 who's skill level is actually silver 5 or bronze 1. The reason that bronze player made it to silver 3 could just be luck in placements, or a few lucky win streaks. However, when a person in high diamond 1/master/challenger is matched with another person in the same elo, they are basically guaranteed that their teammate deserves to be where they are. Because there is no way to make it to high diamond 1/master/challenger off of solely luck. You have to actually be good enough to get there.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Your post is a good expansion of my idea. The skill difference through the ranks is plotted on curve. Other that down vote my post apparent think its plotted in linear fashion.

WukongMain2 votes

youtube "ls coaching" in some of hes videos he talks about Shit. literal Shit. you got your pro players. theyre good. then you got everyone else, theyre the shit. Legit piles of shit. Bronze is just a piece of shit. then you got gold, still a piece of shit, except now you got a few pieces of corn to look nice and shiny with.

at the end of the day, Still a pile of shit.

Gold player (shit with corn) yelling at bronze player (shit without the corn). rofl.

Lt Cuddles1 votes

XD

WukongMain1 votes

was it really that funny?

Lt Cuddles1 votes

For me, yes.

WukongMain1 votes

im glad..i made you laugh? :D

but its true right? that guy came up with a wonderful analogy. (youtube LS coaching)

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Made my day~ summoner 31

Frosty Hoodoo1 votes

Current Score: -5,000,000,000,000,000

pleep1 votes

This post makes no sense.

I dont know where people got this idea that anyone who is not diamond 1 50+ LP is bad at the game. Keep in mind diamond FIVE is the top 1% of lol.

And Gold is like the top 20%.

If ur in the top 25% of something u have the right to call urself pretty good at that game, especially when compared to bronze people in the bottom 10%

jv21blU7oD1 votes

Because even at an MMR like Diamond 5 people often do absolutely retarded stuff and can have really bad decision making and game sense. When you actually get to that level you'll understand more of what I mean. I'm Diamond 3 currently and I'm fucking shit in the eyes of a Master/Challenger player and I would never straight up call myself a good player when I know that there is still so much for me that I could be improving upon.

If people actually took the time to work out their fundamentals and invest it into focusing on improving themselves instead of unnecessary shit like which kind of teammates you get you'd have A LOT more people in the Plat/Diamond area since that's basically all it takes to reach that level.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Forgive me. When I made this post I was looking at the tier system separated into 6 Tiers. I had no idea that so many people thought it was impressive to be in one of the bottom 3 out of six.

"Sigh" Imagine if you were great at basketball but not good enough to get a scholarship. Think of everyone playing pick-up games all over the world. NOW narrow that to high schools, colleges, world leagues, and finally to the NBA. A lot of people think it is awesome that you made it as a walk-on into your first college of choice. PERSONAL VICTORY FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Oh, in this analogy you aren't even a starter.

I did not know the bar was so low. I somehow come out of this as the prideful one that doesn't understand he sucks cause he is in bronze? People who shit on this post are like Christians shitting on atheists cause the atheist is so prideful he can't understand he is one God's favored.

1999 01 171 votes

I went from silver 2 to gold 2 in like 100 games. oh and I play support.

if you're stuck in bronze chances are you're a bronze level player

Occams Raiser1 votes

This post isn't about where people are placed. If you think that is what I am talking about when I posted it, either I didn't express myself well enough or you are projecting cause you read so many posts where people are talking about placement.

Lt Cuddles1 votes

EXCEPT THE TROLLS! DASH THEM ON THE ROCKS!

Damn bra, going Biblical on them trolls, eh?

Occams Raiser1 votes

People who's enjoyment is derived from the destruction of other peoples enjoyment should have their computers blow up in their faces. These people aren't trolls on computers but cool in real life. I have met a troll. He is my sister in laws child. He was a good kid when he was young. He turned 10 and a switch turned on in his head. He was a full blown asshole in a matter of years time. Picks at people all the time. Nothing is funny to him unless you are annoyed. F this kid.

Lt Cuddles1 votes

It is probably a phase, if not, then you could always ship them away to boot camp. :^)

xLordZantx1 votes

I know this is rather off topic but hear me out.What if there was a tier below bronze let's name it "cardboard" or "tinfoil" tier. Now the trick is you cannot be placed in tinfoil tier after placement matches no matter how bad you did in placements you can only go as far as bronze 5,but if your mmr was to drop too low you would end up dropping into tinfoil tier.

I suppose my goal is to diversify the range of skill,in this case the lack of it (its not challenger and master comparison its a bronze and tinfoil) .The tinfoil tier would i theory contain all the trolls,bad minded individuals,afkers,dcers(if that is a word) and other things of the like.The goal of this would be to reduce some that luck factor you might see in bronze matches by placing the people who causes issues in a separate environment,thereby allowing the individuals who are trying to get out of bronze a better chance at well......getting out of bronze.

Reminder the placement matches is processed at a bronze standard/level after achieving lvl 30 and one can only be demoted to tinfoil tier due to extreme poor performances and by no way of going 0/10 in placements if it does happen the system is glitched.

I would like to your opinions on something like this,whether you agree or not,hate it,like, whatever you think i would like to hear it.

Krinu1 votes

I'M IN WOOD FOUR

arcinex1 votes

I think what happened is OP realized his lack of skill and thus taking the shame off himself by accusing everyone, that is not challenger, of being bronze.

Your match history confirms this.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Who is OP?

Celeste Benal1 votes

WARNING! MATH INBOUND!

I am constantly baffled by people and websites that are unable to do simple math like sums and percentages. So I did some quick spreadsheet work to verify the numbers.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/tier/

Using the summoner chart on the right of the linked site, the percentage of players per division are as follows:

  • Bronze = 37.02%
  • Silver = 36.83%
  • Gold = 15.81%
  • Platinum = 8.35%
  • Diamond = 1.91%
  • Master+Challenger = .07%

So, B+S+G = 90% of all ranked players, world-wide. The top 25% is Gold and up.

Disclaimer: lolsummoner has vastly different numbers.

Occams Raiser1 votes

look up hyperbole.

Occams Raiser1 votes

On another site someone said:

I have compiled a few interesting ranked statistics. Enjoy! Firstly, if I had a room full of 100 ranked summoners, the distribution would look a little like this: 29 bronze players 42 silver players 19 gold players 7 platinum players 2 diamond players 1 challenger

If there were a battle compiled of the top 10 players, 2 out of the 19 gold might be picked as reserve players. This is a glass half full type of thing right. I might have been looking at this from a pessimistic standpoint. But it still seems like saying you are good (top 25%) because you are better than the majority of a community that clearly doesn't give a shit is an odd thing to me. You are good Yet the match making system still puts you in games with these people.

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