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Too True - and we've been calling it out for months now with actual evidence

woodvsmurph··2 votes·1,070 views

I've played this game and watched it since when I first tuned in to see tpa go to worlds and win in season 2. I've mained at least 3 different roles at some point in my career - largely focused on ranked games ever since I hit level 30. I've theory crafted multiple builds, role swaps, or rune setups which eventually (AFTER I CAME UP WITH IT MYSELF) pro's and high elo players caught onto made into a new meta. I've predicted effects on the outcome of new patches w/o ever having to test them or see them played out live. Pointing out flaws with buffs or nerfs, new items and how they would eventually be abused, etc. I've played with and against everything from bronze 5 to diamond players while myself never climbing above gold 3... and won. I've had over a dozen plats and diamonds legitimately believe I was doing some bronze to plat smurf account when they ran into me doing that themselves. Over MULTIPLE seasons. And...

I 100% agree with gbay99 in this video. I don't watch a ton of his vids. I am not some fanboy. I simply stumbled across his vid on YouTube and wanted to get an informed outsider's perspective on how league is doing right now. And as I myself feel - the answer is... not great.

From patches being designed to make certain champs or roles broken op since basically the juggernaut rework back in the day

From classes being overpowered and unaddressed for weeks to months (still waiting on sup/adc god tier roles)

From items being reworked to favor certain champs and while ignoring others who may or may not be MORE dependent on the item

From roles being left gutted and lacking any agency thanks to a combination of factors such as meta

From champs being "nerfed" only to receive compensation buffs in the same patch while others are left semi-unplayable and untouched

From all the empty promises to improve this or that/fix this or that and it never happens

From the focus on random crap that doesn't need any changes while there are other glaring holes that have been left the same for weeks or longer

etc.

There are so many little campfires in this game that are being left unattended. And each little one - left unchecked - is just pushing more and more people to seriously consider quitting the game. And as anyone who knows a thing about California will tell you... several little campfires left unattended can lead to some major big fires... and a lot of problems. I will say that I don't think no one in bronze has anything intelligent to offer when they talk. But I also would say that gbay isn't talking about actual bronze ranked players, but rather people who complain when there is literally nothing wrong with a champ or item or rune or class. People who say... argue that sivir is the strongest adc right now and needs to be gutted - I think that would be the type of people he's referring to when he says "bronze".

10 Comments

Frontline Fury3 votes

Okay. But you do realize Season 8 has been the best season league has seen for four years, right? The game is currently better than it has been for many years, albeit much less beginner friendly than ever (whenever i talk about league, i always recommend against playing it - wether it be a potential returning player or a complete beginner)

But that does not mean the game is dying. It has stagnated a bit during the weak seasons 5 and 7, but i believe Riot has been on the right path ever since the addition of Conqueror various rune rebalances.

If they can only keep going the direction they recently have been, this might just be a revolution for League.

That you, personally, arent enjoying the game does not mean its dying. It just means you are getting burnt out, or you are unable to adapt to the fierce changes we see every year.

That happens, and there's nothing wrong with it. The game is not for everyone.

woodvsmurph2 votes

You are wrong on multiple counts.

  1. This season is perhaps one of the worst if taken as a whole. Adc's are literally the sole carry threat in high level of play. Sure other champs (largely thanks to conqueror) have SOME hope of impacting the game, but that is mostly via splitpush which... currently isn't nearly as effective or easy to execute (at all levels of play) as in seasons past. Thus, barring the rare extreme cases of stuff like 8/0/0 jax or yasuo top with conqueror getting into a teamfight, peeling and just setting up adc to right click everyone to death is by far the strongest, most reliable option.

  2. This results in rather boring and predictable matches - making many veteran lcs fans lose interest. Sure a new generation might be rising up to replace them - MIGHT BE - but that doesn't make it okay. As the vid explains, some of the changes made to the runescape or whatever brought in new players, but it also alienated other chunks of players. This led to decline in player base. If you want to watch someone right click others to death on a ranged character... go watch an fps game. League isn't supposed to be purely about watching an adc to see which one will get fed and solo carry the game. There's a ton of cool champs with all sorts of weapons/abilities which deserve to be showcased - not just ranged ones with guns or bows.

  3. I am more than capable of adapting. For example, I theory crafted a cho'gath rune page which was eventually discovered independent of me by Korean pro scene and used to great success in a pro game... in a matchup cho was supposed to lose, he won handily thanks to the rune setup. I theory crafted nashor tooth azir - back when he first came out and everyone said you go morello on him or you're stupid. And... we all know which one stood the test of time. I am perfectly capable of adapting. That is not the issue.

There have been some apparent ATTEMPTS to begin fixing some of the glaring issues we've had since at least the start of this season; however, others have still not been touched at all. Conqueror is one of these "attempts". I say that because it has created a nightmare of it's own in toplane and pushed things too far in the opposite direction. It's intent was primarily to help struggling bruisers (caster-based like darius and renekton) not aa-based fighters like jax (kinda hybrid caster/aa), yi, yasuo, etc. But rather than accomplish this, it has just made aa-based champs like yas into even more of a ticking time bomb... with basically nothing opponents can do to fight against it after a certain point. Caster-based champs have a WINDOW in the early/mid game to snowball lane and run away with the game. If they miss that though - either through mistakes or by being camped in lane to prevent/minimize their ability to play agro, they get outscaled far more than before by aa-based champs like yas, trynd, etc. And then, thanks to the true damage of conqueror, there is no combo of items they can ever hope to buy that will let them so much as farm a minion wave away from tower. And they can be tower dove much more easily with 0 hope of survival. That is not a fix. It was an honest attempt, but it is not a proper fix.

Now, there are SOME great things from this season. Rune/mastery combined. Multiple options offering some flexibility to many roles/champs. More available to newer players and more clear cut for them to learn. Some nice items added to the game or updates to items. But the glaring flaws that are being ignored or worse... reinforced by changes made to the game are more than enough to override the positive things for anyone who played before last season.

Why was toplane tank meta for so long? Tanks are given too high of base damage in order to help them farm. Adc's are the only real threat capable of killing an enemy alone in a teamfight; everyone else needs assistance unless they're hella fed. Adc's have cheapest build with strongest scaling and... tanks are the best at peeling to keep your adc alive while also tanking the enemy adc. Bruisers and fighters for a long time didn't have a way to deal with the durability and sustain of tanks in the laning phase. By the time they could build cleaver to cut through the tank's armor, one team's adc would be rotating top to get more towers or the game would be transitioning to teamfights and objectives. Bruisers and fighters were unsafe (except camille basically) to farm in lane with due to higher fragility and higher leveled junglers. Combined with the extra damage champs have and the lower durability, bruisers and fighters were almost guaranteed kills if pushed out when the enemy jg comes to gank. I could go on about tanks in toplane and other concepts, but I will skip that for sake of time and length. The point is - stuff is meta for a reason and it can be used as evidence supporting the claims made in the vid and the ones others and I have made here on the boards. Rather than ignore all these things, Riot needs to listen closely to its players and give value to what they say - especially the longtime ones who have a clue what they are talking about when they write... whether it's something good or bad or neutral. Rank/elo is not the determining factor as to whether or not the input is valuable either - validity of the statement is. If they continue largely ignoring huge chunks of players and doing crap that makes them seriously upset with Riot and keep such changes - adding more of them with every few patches - then eventually SOME of those fed-up players leave. Do that enough, and you end up with a giant gap in the player base which no amount of reverts, buffs, or nerfs can fix.

Frontline Fury1 votes

{quoted}

You are wrong on multiple counts.

  1. This season is perhaps one of the worst if taken as a whole. Adc's are literally the sole carry threat in high level of play. Sure other champs (largely thanks to conqueror) have SOME hope of impacting the game, but that is mostly via splitpush which... currently isn't nearly as effective or easy to execute (at all levels of play) as in seasons past. Thus, barring the rare extreme cases of stuff like 8/0/0 jax or yasuo top with conqueror getting into a teamfight, peeling and just setting up adc to right click everyone to death is by far the strongest, most reliable option.

  2. This results in rather boring and predictable matches - making many veteran lcs fans lose interest. Sure a new generation might be rising up to replace them - MIGHT BE - but that doesn't make it okay. As the vid explains, some of the changes made to the runescape or whatever brought in new players, but it also alienated other chunks of players. This led to decline in player base. If you want to watch someone right click others to death on a ranged character... go watch an fps game. League isn't supposed to be purely about watching an adc to see which one will get fed and solo carry the game. There's a ton of cool champs with all sorts of weapons/abilities which deserve to be showcased - not just ranged ones with guns or bows.

  3. I am more than capable of adapting. For example, I theory crafted a cho'gath rune page which was eventually discovered independent of me by Korean pro scene and used to great success in a pro game... in a matchup cho was supposed to lose, he won handily thanks to the rune setup. I theory crafted nashor tooth azir - back when he first came out and everyone said you go morello on him or you're stupid. And... we all know which one stood the test of time. I am perfectly capable of adapting. That is not the issue.

There have been some apparent ATTEMPTS to begin fixing some of the glaring issues we've had since at least the start of this season; however, others have still not been touched at all. Conqueror is one of these "attempts". I say that because it has created a nightmare of it's own in toplane and pushed things too far in the opposite direction. It's intent was primarily to help struggling bruisers (caster-based like darius and renekton) not aa-based fighters like jax (kinda hybrid caster/aa), yi, yasuo, etc. But rather than accomplish this, it has just made aa-based champs like yas into even more of a ticking time bomb... with basically nothing opponents can do to fight against it after a certain point. Caster-based champs have a WINDOW in the early/mid game to snowball lane and run away with the game. If they miss that though - either through mistakes or by being camped in lane to prevent/minimize their ability to play agro, they get outscaled far more than before by aa-based champs like yas, trynd, etc. And then, thanks to the true damage of conqueror, there is no combo of items they can ever hope to buy that will let them so much as farm a minion wave away from tower. And they can be tower dove much more easily with 0 hope of survival. That is not a fix. It was an honest attempt, but it is not a proper fix.

Now, there are SOME great things from this season. Rune/mastery combined. Multiple options offering some flexibility to many roles/champs. More available to newer players and more clear cut for them to learn. Some nice items added to the game or updates to items. But the glaring flaws that are being ignored or worse... reinforced by changes made to the game are more than enough to override the positive things for anyone who played before last season.

Why was toplane tank meta for so long? Tanks are given too high of base damage in order to help them farm. Adc's are the only real threat capable of killing an enemy alone in a teamfight; everyone else needs assistance unless they're hella fed. Adc's have cheapest build with strongest scaling and... tanks are the best at peeling to keep your adc alive while also tanking the enemy adc. Bruisers and fighters for a long time didn't have a way to deal with the durability and sustain of tanks in the laning phase. By the time they could build cleaver to cut through the tank's armor, one team's adc would be rotating top to get more towers or the game would be transitioning to teamfights and objectives. Bruisers and fighters were unsafe (except camille basically) to farm in lane with due to higher fragility and higher leveled junglers. Combined with the extra damage champs have and the lower durability, bruisers and fighters were almost guaranteed kills if pushed out when the enemy jg comes to gank. I could go on about tanks in toplane and other concepts, but I will skip that for sake of time and length. The point is - stuff is meta for a reason and it can be used as evidence supporting the claims made in the vid and the ones others and I have made here on the boards. Rather than ignore all these things, Riot needs to listen closely to its players and give value to what they say - especially the longtime ones who have a clue what they are talking about when they write... whether it's something good or bad or neutral. Rank/elo is not the determining factor as to whether or not the input is valuable either - validity of the statement is. If they continue largely ignoring huge chunks of players and doing crap that makes them seriously upset with Riot and keep such changes - adding more of them with every few patches - then eventually SOME of those fed-up players leave. Do that enough, and you end up with a giant gap in the player base which no amount of reverts, buffs, or nerfs can fix.

I'm just going to end this right here - you seem a little obsessed with the whole "me, myself and i" thing. If you truly were capable of adapting, you wouldn't be having a problem - no, the game is most certainly not in a "good spot" but that does not change this is by far the healthiest League has been at since early season 5. The game has only been going up from there (which speaks more of just how bad it got than how good it now is) and if you haven't realized this despite playing since long before then, then you have either not been playing enough or you are blinded by your current frustration.

I'm not interested in quarreling. If you want to prove me wrong, you'll have to say more than "i feel like its this and this". Not like i'm putting out any sources for my statements either - i really can't be bothered.

Now, if you were to climb to Diamond and thus prove you are, in fact, very well capable of adaptation, then i'll hear you out. Until then... I suggest you quit league if you are not enjoying it. It's not going to magically change overnight, or even over a year. Find a better game to play, rather than waste your time on the forums voicing your personal concerns.

woodvsmurph1 votes

Either put up a real argument or don't waste everyone's time with your posts. Your argument consists of:

  1. you aren't rank x, so your statements don't matter
  2. you aren't using "sources" for your claims

Why that is patently the worst type of argument:

  1. your argument lacks any backing - you don't use sources yourself and don't even cite actual in-game examples; I do - so you are doing exactly the crappy stuff you accuse me of... only even moreso.
  2. rank has 0 bearing on something being true, accurate, false, etc. There are Riot employees balancing the game, designing champs, etc. from every single elo - yes even BRONZE. If higher elo truly meant you were smarter in every way, then explain how...

morg support naut support naut top cho'gath runes used in lck camille support rageblade jhin unexpected "broken" conqueror champs nashor azir tank ekko fix galio rework is broken ... I could go on, but will stop for sake of time

were all called/predicted/discovered by a gold NA player before any of you "high elo" know-it-all's.

I await your novel explaining how you took longer to discover such things than a "know-nothing" gold. Until you can explain THAT and how you are still somehow smarter than me, smarter than all the toplaners of much higher elo than you who say the game is in a bad spot, smarter than all the players on the boards who aren't adc-or-die noobs who have open eyes and honesty to realize how stupidly the game has overempowered one role - making the game entirely focused on them... I'll be waiting.

It takes a real dummy not to realize taliyah as one of the best mids is entirely because of her ability to roam bot, snowball HER adc, and win the game off the back of having the fed adc. She's a top tier mid right now even though she basically should lose 90% of 1v1's mid and doesn't have amazing scaling compared to many other options out there. So if she's that op right now, that in itself entirely supports the adc is sole role empowered to carry in almost every game at elo higher than silver. The fact that pro's are all picking tanks - many of them specifically designed to deal with adc's - is another piece of actual EVIDENCE (still waiting on any evidence from you beyond "I feel this way and I'm x elo") supporting this.

Only a naive, an adc who refuses to admit the truth, or an inept person would argue otherwise. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by actually replying with this post. So, either learn your lesson and admit the truth, keep your mouth shut, or bring some real evidence - you know - the stuff you falsely accuse ME of not having.

In case you don't know what evidence is: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=du_cWv-eFMq0jwSh_q7YDA&q=evidence&oq=evidence&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l5j0i131k1j0l4.608.1914.0.2028.8.5.0.3.3.0.140.570.1j4.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.8.624...46j0i131i46k1j46i131k1j0i46k1.0.L0FSw2n-CN0

Frontline Fury1 votes

{quoted}

Either put up a real argument or don't waste everyone's time with your posts. Your argument consists of:

  1. you aren't rank x, so your statements don't matter
  2. you aren't using "sources" for your claims

Why that is patently the worst type of argument:

  1. your argument lacks any backing - you don't use sources yourself and don't even cite actual in-game examples; I do - so you are doing exactly the crappy stuff you accuse me of... only even moreso.
  2. rank has 0 bearing on something being true, accurate, false, etc. There are Riot employees balancing the game, designing champs, etc. from every single elo - yes even BRONZE. If higher elo truly meant you were smarter in every way, then explain how...

morg support naut support naut top cho'gath runes used in lck camille support rageblade jhin unexpected "broken" conqueror champs nashor azir tank ekko fix galio rework is broken ... I could go on, but will stop for sake of time

were all called/predicted/discovered by a gold NA player before any of you "high elo" know-it-all's.

I await your novel explaining how you took longer to discover such things than a "know-nothing" gold. Until you can explain THAT and how you are still somehow smarter than me, smarter than all the toplaners of much higher elo than you who say the game is in a bad spot, smarter than all the players on the boards who aren't adc-or-die noobs who have open eyes and honesty to realize how stupidly the game has overempowered one role - making the game entirely focused on them... I'll be waiting.

It takes a real dummy not to realize taliyah as one of the best mids is entirely because of her ability to roam bot, snowball HER adc, and win the game off the back of having the fed adc. She's a top tier mid right now even though she basically should lose 90% of 1v1's mid and doesn't have amazing scaling compared to many other options out there. So if she's that op right now, that in itself entirely supports the adc is sole role empowered to carry in almost every game at elo higher than silver. The fact that pro's are all picking tanks - many of them specifically designed to deal with adc's - is another piece of actual EVIDENCE (still waiting on any evidence from you beyond "I feel this way and I'm x elo") supporting this.

Only a naive, an adc who refuses to admit the truth, or an inept person would argue otherwise. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by actually replying with this post. So, either learn your lesson and admit the truth, keep your mouth shut, or bring some real evidence - you know - the stuff you falsely accuse ME of not having.

In case you don't know what evidence is: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=du_cWv-eFMq0jwSh_q7YDA&q=evidence&oq=evidence&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l5j0i131k1j0l4.608.1914.0.2028.8.5.0.3.3.0.140.570.1j4.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.8.624...46j0i131i46k1j46i131k1j0i46k1.0.L0FSw2n-CN0

Everyone has at some point «discovered» something to-be-meta in their league career. That you played something before it became meta does not necessarily mean you were the first person to discover it - i’m sorry to say none of us are that special.

Recognizing strong builds for champions is all a matter of logical thinking and detecting patterns. An example would be back in season 2: Urgot were widely considered one of the worst champions in the game and tear of the goddess the worst item available.

I slapped them together and discovered my first main champion, something that was picked by pro players and even had to get nerfed a year later.

Does that mean i invented it? No. There have been Urgot mains since his release, and Riot had already recognized Tear of the goddess’ potential as it got its rework/expansion from manamune to muramana one and a half year later, which launched it into meta territory for Jayce and Urgot, although ezreal didnt start picking it up for another while yet.

Enough history lesson. My point is that the reason i’m not bothering to take your arguments seriously is because of your sheer arrogance - do you ACTUALLY believe you were the only player in the entire world to try something on a champion?

In my native language we have a term for that attitude. «Blærete» - It translates roughly to «stuck-up, naive and blind to the world as they only look at themselves».

Quit the whole «i’m better than everybody else» attitude and it’d be easier to show you some respect.

The reason i pull the rank card is that i consider myself garbage at the game. But if you keep detecting the strongest champions and builds MONTHS before the world’s elite does and you STILL get stuck two entire divisions below mine, then clearly you’re doing something wrong.

Just like you, i could go on all day about the various surprising builds i discovered while playing the game that turned out to be great.

Or i could whine about how i’ve only ever mained champions the end up getting reworked within 4 months of me maining them ( it makes me sad :( )

But what’s the point? Who gains anything? Who cares?

Nobody cares. We’re here to play and enjoy the game, not to listen to people try to boost their ego by pretending they’re anything special.

I’m just another random summoner name you won’t even remember three minutes after writing your next infuriated reply admonishing me at the indignation of implying you are not the smartest league player in the world, and as i write this i still have no clue what your summoner name is. For all i know i could be having this little baby squabble with multiple people.

I’m just saying. Nobody cares who did something first, and the blatant attention seeking makes you look like a child. If you dont like the game; dont play it. There are way too many people enjoying it for it to recieve drastic changes.

The only thing you can do is adapt to what the game has become or leave and find something that better suits you.

I warmly recommend games like Fable 2, Skyrim and Legend of Zelda - there you are the definitive hero and everybody sings your praises.

woodvsmurph1 votes

The point of mentioning those examples is not to say i'm the only person to have ever thought of them. Nor do i claim anywhere to the the EXCLUSIVE inventor. The point is to show that I thought of them BEFORE people of much higher rank/elo and through numbers show that it's not some lucky fluke. This shows 2 things.

  1. you can't hide behind rank/elo to dismiss people if you are being honest - because that has nothing to do with people understanding/not-understanding the game
  2. i understand a lot about the game, how it works, items, runes, etc. I'm not some dirt 5 elo player who says we better nerf zed just because I lost to a zed one time and got smashed. If i'm saying something, it's because there is something valid worth looking at - and i'm not the only one who feels that way. My ideas are almost always well thought out - with many factors taken into consideration and multiple options looked at. Something a lot of others - regardless of elo - fail to do. Not all others, but many.

So again, if you want to tell me i'm wrong, that gbay is wrong, that hashinshin, nb3, wickd, etc. are wrong... then do what you told me to do and bring some FACTS.

As i've clearly shown, hiding behind your 'my rank is better than yours' bs is a pathetic, invalid argument which goes against what you yourself tell me to do. Come back with facts, or stop wasting my time.

Frontline Fury1 votes

{quoted}

Either put up a real argument or don't waste everyone's time with your posts. Your argument consists of:

  1. you aren't rank x, so your statements don't matter
  2. you aren't using "sources" for your claims

Why that is patently the worst type of argument:

  1. your argument lacks any backing - you don't use sources yourself and don't even cite actual in-game examples; I do - so you are doing exactly the crappy stuff you accuse me of... only even moreso.
  2. rank has 0 bearing on something being true, accurate, false, etc. There are Riot employees balancing the game, designing champs, etc. from every single elo - yes even BRONZE. If higher elo truly meant you were smarter in every way, then explain how...

morg support naut support naut top cho'gath runes used in lck camille support rageblade jhin unexpected "broken" conqueror champs nashor azir tank ekko fix galio rework is broken ... I could go on, but will stop for sake of time

were all called/predicted/discovered by a gold NA player before any of you "high elo" know-it-all's.

I await your novel explaining how you took longer to discover such things than a "know-nothing" gold. Until you can explain THAT and how you are still somehow smarter than me, smarter than all the toplaners of much higher elo than you who say the game is in a bad spot, smarter than all the players on the boards who aren't adc-or-die noobs who have open eyes and honesty to realize how stupidly the game has overempowered one role - making the game entirely focused on them... I'll be waiting.

It takes a real dummy not to realize taliyah as one of the best mids is entirely because of her ability to roam bot, snowball HER adc, and win the game off the back of having the fed adc. She's a top tier mid right now even though she basically should lose 90% of 1v1's mid and doesn't have amazing scaling compared to many other options out there. So if she's that op right now, that in itself entirely supports the adc is sole role empowered to carry in almost every game at elo higher than silver. The fact that pro's are all picking tanks - many of them specifically designed to deal with adc's - is another piece of actual EVIDENCE (still waiting on any evidence from you beyond "I feel this way and I'm x elo") supporting this.

Only a naive, an adc who refuses to admit the truth, or an inept person would argue otherwise. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by actually replying with this post. So, either learn your lesson and admit the truth, keep your mouth shut, or bring some real evidence - you know - the stuff you falsely accuse ME of not having.

In case you don't know what evidence is: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=du_cWv-eFMq0jwSh_q7YDA&q=evidence&oq=evidence&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l5j0i131k1j0l4.608.1914.0.2028.8.5.0.3.3.0.140.570.1j4.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.8.624...46j0i131i46k1j46i131k1j0i46k1.0.L0FSw2n-CN0

Oh and i should mention, speaking of playing the game for the sake of entertainment - that's also the only reason i entertain you here. I think it's fun to argue, so i keep pulling words out of my ass.

I don't remember making any statements on mid laners, but my 2 cents would be that Taliyah and Anivia are both extremely unhealthy champions that are absurdly broken due to their kits. Fortunately neither is particularly popular.

SwiftKitten883 votes

Okay. But you do realize Season 8 has been the best season league has seen for four years, right?

you clearly weren't around in season 4 then...

Vonyalo1 votes

Don't expect this game to die that easily

  1. It's too casual
  2. People are dumb
woodvsmurph1 votes

I didn't say it IS dead, or that it is going to die this year or anything like that. I am saying, that like gbay says in the vid (reallly - watch it and THEN comment), Riot has made a lot of steps in the wrong direction in the past couple of years (or year depending on whom you talk to) which has pushed different chunks of the player base to... a. lose interest in the game; it's just one game they sometimes play instead of THE game they play like it used to be b. consider quitting league c. actually quit league

Many little things added together which frustrate people and mostly a continued trend of ignoring players' complaints and suggestions for improvement add up. It doesn't lead to league dying this year or anything... nor probably next. And it can (hopefully will) be fixed. But correct, careful, intelligent action needs to be taken. They can't continue their most common trend (I say this because SOME good things have been done too, but they're rare) of ignoring their most dedicated and veteran player base and changing whatever they want however they want for the their interest and the interest of an extremely small player base.

You make the game have say 3 roles which are typically autofilled and uninteresting to play through continuing trends of over-emphasizing a particular role and then nerfing champs who are strong in other roles - even if their strength comes from helping that one particular role - (ahem, taliyah) and you will end up with a game that slowly dies over the course of years. Which leads to only pro play. Which will die because who is going to sustain viewership of pro's playing a game that nobody actually plays? Who is going to want to watch a pro game where - unlike the past - 3 of the 5 roles are boring and lack any agency to affect the game aside from empowering the other 2 roles?

This is what gbay and I are saying. Stuff like that is currently happening. And sure conqueror and mage nerfs to empower assassins show maybe MAYBE Riot is finally trying to listen and empower other roles more... however, their method for doing so isn't correct and will only create more headaches and alienate more small dedicated chunks of players by giving them one more major issue to complain about that needs fixing but will not be addressed for a long while. It's like their attempts to fix it involve putting out brush fires while there's a major wildfire at the center of it all being left untouched. Fix the fire in the middle before it consumes everything - then worry about the brush fires. That's what a number of high profile players have basically been getting at with social media posts like gbay's this season.

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Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

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