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Top lane tanks....how to deal with

Ben SwoIo··5 votes·2,760 views

I've been using Fiora a lot so I've had to deal with these heavy tank top laners lately (mainly malphite and nautilus). Now, I understand they are counters to AD top laners but my beef is the damage they are able to put out. I have hit vitals and got the better of some little skirmishes, but they just seem to not care and tank on. Sometimes they deal more damage to me. Eventually they either grind out a kill or just bully me to my tower. Their build is pretty typical with all armor and maybe a sunfire cape. Keystone is that colossus one. Gives em a stupid shield. Pretty frustrating that brain dead champs like these can pretty much just shut me out by derping their way through lane phase. I get if I make a mistake and lose, such as a bad parry vs jayce or what not. But these champs just seem like some derpy picks and its annoying how effective they are without much thinking. Anyone got any good tips to deal with 'em? And I'm not asking for counter picks, I'm asking what to do in the event that I'm the one getting countered with my AD champ. Thanks.

37 Comments

Martensitic6 votes

Pretty frustrating that brain dead champs like these can pretty much just shut me out by derping their way through lane phase.

Whereas "righ-click-to-do-free-true-damage-while-also-heal-yourself-and-have-a-shield-vs-all button Fiora" is not braindead, nooooo

Here is a little hint for you:

These champions are DELIBERATELY DESIGNED to be able to deal with auto-attack reliant AD champions.

Here is another hint:

If you want people to take you seriously, it doesn't help to call our champion picks "braindead" because losing against them frustrates your ego, while playing a right-click champion yourself. You can start complaining once you play something like Riven.

Ben SwoIo2 votes

Fiora is not "right click to do free true damage plus heal yourself." Learn the champ before you trash talk it. It's a bit more difficult to get the right angle on the vital along with hoping the vital shows up in the right spot (apart from the ult). It's not like you click and it just auto-procs endlessly. Your "hints" were beyond useless. I've already stated that I am fully aware of the tanks purpose vs an AD top laner. Please re-read before stating something obvious. And for your second "hint, I could care less if you take me serious. Just don't reply and let the thread die if that's the case. Instead you wasted time replying with snarky comments that did not contribute whatsoever. I was frustrated when writing my post but if you don't like my "brain dead" comment, well grow a thicker skin.

Ralanr3 votes

If you want tank mains to actually give decent advice then don't mock their class. It's the same for everyone.

Would you mock someone holding water while you're dying of thirst? No. the example may be extreme, but the point remains.

Ben SwoIo2 votes

Like I said, they should grow a thicker skin. I played Yi a lot last season and still do here and there. He's not hard to use and I know that. I don't care what people say about that champ. I just enjoy him. I'm not going to sit here and try to make it sound like those tanks take a lot of thinking or mechanics, just so someone doesn't get their feelings hurt.

Ralanr3 votes

Yi is a single champion. Tanks are an entire class.

I'm not saying tanks are heavy with mechanics, but it does require more thinking than everyone would stereotype.

Martensitic2 votes

It's a bit more difficult to get the right angle on the vital along with hoping the vital shows up in the right spot

Yes, its veeeery difficult indeed to chose the right out of 4 directions, indicated by a large glowing mark. For a sea-cucumber, that is.

Your "hints" were beyond useless. I've already stated that I am fully aware of the tanks purpose vs an AD top laner.

Then the purpose of your QQ post is what exactly? You know that these champions are designed to be able to deal with you, and yet you complain that they can deal with you?

And for your second "hint, I could care less if you take me serious.

You write a lot of angry words for a guy who pretends not to care.

I was frustrated when writing my post but if you don't like my "brain dead" comment, well grow a thicker skin.

You mean, as thick as your skin, that made you write this angry flamefest because people don't agree with you? :D

Bye, it was fun, but now I got some Fioras to oneshot on my Nasus =)

Ben SwoIo2 votes

I'm not the butthurt one who felt the need to respond. You got so butthurt over me calling your tanks "brain dead." My skin is thicker than yours, I wrote this post because I was frustrated with gameplay and need a better understanding of my champ and the matchup. You got butthurt from some name calling to your champ class. Big difference. And if Fiora is so easy to use, why don't you use her? You sound very ignorant to the champ. And if you can't figure out the meaning of this thread, go back to school because you obviously lack in reading comprehension. Good luck with Nasus, they tend to be easy puppies to tame.

Martensitic1 votes

My skin is thicker than yours, I wrote this post because I was frustrated with gameplay

You do realize you just contradicted yourself in less than 20 words, right^?

And if Fiora is so easy to use, why don't you use her?

Because I like to win toplane.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/25882861.jpg

Ben SwoIo2 votes

All of your posts have been rage bait. Even a lot of your past postings on other threads have been pretty lame and seem to be rage-ish. Don't post if you're not going to contribute to the thread like the others. You have provided nothing but useless postings while trying to incite some type of argument. It's lame. I know you're un ranked, so maybe you should focus on your game play instead of trying to cause some childish argument on a thread YOU got butt hurt on. Btw, getting frustrated is not contradicting me having a thick skin. There's a difference between frustration and you getting butt hurt on name calling your champ class. If you can't figure that out, then like I said go back to school. Now either contribute or just stop posting. It's old now.

Martensitic1 votes

Don't post if you're not going to contribute to the thread like the others.

You mean, like the other guys who downvoted you as well?

You have provided nothing but useless postings while trying to incite some type of argument. It's lame.

Hey, I am not the one answering in ever more angry tones.

I know you're un ranked

And you infer that from the fact that I post from a smurf?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/117/814/are-you-wizard.jpg

so maybe you should focus on your game play instead of trying to cause some childish argument on a thread YOU got butt hurt on.

Conveniently ignoring the fact that the entire premise of your thread was that you are butthurt about losing to actual toplaners.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

There's a difference between frustration and you getting butt hurt

Erm...no, there really isn't. They are synonyms :D

Now either contribute or just stop posting

Sorry, but since you are neither god nor my mother, you are really not one of the people able to command me to do anything :D

Ben SwoIo2 votes

You think I care about up votes or down votes? I said what I said and that's it. If I get down voted, oh well. Others have contributed to this thread without acting like a snarky little brat like you. Just stop, you're not smart nor impressive. And if you're a smurf, we'll here's your opportunity to help someone instead of being a "I'm better than you but I won't help" type of idiot. Get over yourself. And what do you mean losing to actual top laners? I'm frustrated with the match ups not losing the lane. Im not here for how to play the lane or pick in general. Its the matchups. Reading comprehension, again. You need it badly. Grow up.

Martensitic1 votes

You think I care about up votes or down votes?

And because you don't care, you immediately downvote everything I write. (Lie about you not doing the downvoting incoming ^^)

Just stop, you're not smart nor impressive.

Ah well, I kinda am. And this is amusing to me, so no :-)

And what do you mean losing to actual top laners?

I think that was perfectly clear? You play Fiora, in a meta where dmg-heavy control tanks and bruisers are powerful. Thus, you lose the lane. Alot. Hence your butthurt post about it.

(Plus, the behaviour of Fiora players is kinda similar to that of Yasuo "mains" or Vayne "mains" so no one is realyl surprised about it)

But its cute that you now try to convince everyone that you "don't lose the lane" and "just complain about the matchups". Who you think is going to believe that? No one who wins games complains about it.

Ben SwoIo2 votes

[deleted]

Martensitic1 votes

Wow, you devolved to nothing but pure insults.

I take the win and leave you to wallow around in your own rage.

Well, I'm back to smashing hapless Fiora "mains" toplane. Toodles.

Oh, and don't worry, you can now reply to this post with more insults, so you can conjure up the illusion that you somehow "won" the argument ^^

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Ben SwoIo2 votes

Pretty pathetic that you are actually trying to "win an argument." Grow up. No one cares. Here, you won. There. If that's what boosts your ego, that's sad. I doubt you win anything in any lane "smurf". I love when I get people like you in game and you fail miserably. You're the type to proceed to RQ or flame the whole team for your lack of in game mechanics. By the way, reading comprehension again. I'm not a Fiora main (yet). I'm in the process of learning her. You have issues outside of league you should work on.

Neko Caitlyn2 votes

You pick another tank. Every game in LoL is decided by who has more tanks so if you pick Fiora you are deliberately gimping your team and chances of winning.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

Well my issue is when I pick Fiora before they pick their top laner. That's when I see the Malph / Naut / Rammus's. I figured there HAS to be a way to play the lane out properly to give my team the best chance at success. I feel like "just farming" is too passive and is hoping too much on the other laners doing well. I could be wrong though. I've messed up multiple times trying to get kills to snowball, so I've kind of put that mind set aside when dealing with a tank as Fiora. Maybe I should just start playing a bruiser?

Ralanr2 votes

I don't really think there is anything wrong with playing passively. Plus you can always teleport to bot for a gank.

I know I made a comment about not giving advice, but I felt I should share my thoughts. Most tanks do well the longer the fight goes on against squishy champions, especially when they have sunfire and can keep their opponent still.

Fiora requires you to hit the vitals in order to hurt your opponent, but you don't have to constantly hit them. You can proc one, retreat, farm up, then go proc another. If the tank catches you and is forcing a fight, odds are they have confidence they will win and you should retreat.

Once you hit six you can win most trades by procing all 4 hits on your ult. You should also save your parry for hard CC to stun them, or if it'll save your life.

Different tanks offer different problems though. Poppy will make it hard for you to use your Q since she'll use her W to scare you off. It's on a long CD though so once she uses it you can better harass. Nautilus is pretty nuts with his passive, so avoid long fights with him. You can dance around Sion.

Any particular tanks you're having problems with?

Ben SwoIo1 votes

The two are Malphite and Nautilus. They do exactly as you say with longer fights. They have that sunfire that seems to just burn me away (along with their skills of course.) I was thinking maybe I'm not bursty enough, or maybe my runes suck. Or maybe, I should just back off after some good hits. I'm still working on her mechanics so I've got a ways to go. I just find myself getting too "bloodthirsty" up top at times. I was a support main in s6 and am looking to go back top for s7. Funny how patient I was as a support but I find myself getting frustrated or impatient as a returning top laner :/

Ralanr3 votes

Playing a damage focused champion is frustrating in general IMO because you're so focused on snowballing to be useful.

As you say, you're still learning Fiora so your own skill can be taken into question. I don't know much on Fiora, but I think if you get some sustain rushed (so I guess a ravenous Hydra) you'll be able to push out your opponent with light skirmishes that you can heal from by CSing out of them.

Fiora is a fencer. Look for the perfect moment and then strike. If you must force a moment, then try not to do it constantly or you'll mess up.

Kaioko2 votes

I play Fiora top quite a bit - you don't need to win lane against them to be successful but it shouldn't be hard for you to do so either.

Nautilus is an absolutely cake walk; you parry his first auto attack or the ultimate and then you jump and proc a vital or two while he's stunned. Malphite is a bit trickier - you can outduel him level 1 - 3 and then you just need to farm until you finish black cleaver. A quick riposte on his ultimate is the perfect counter to any engage potential he has on you.

Obviously CoC made things a bit harder and easier for those champions but the mastery is getting nerfed so it's not really a huge issue. You seem to build Triforce in every instance as Fiora which is a giant mistake. Your build should be something along:

item 1001 item 3077 first back item 3044 item 3071 if tanks or item 3078 if vs. squish and completing your boots (item 3111 for CC or magic dmg , item 3009 if someone is getting an iceborn, rylais or mallet, or item 3047 against heavy AD) Finish item 3074
After that you go some version of item 3065 item 3742 item 3143 item 3156 item 3142 item 3072 item 3026 depending on what it is you need.

Also run teleport never ignite on Fiora. You will be split pushing - you're one of the best at it afterall the grand duelist is much better in 1 vs 1 fights late game than 5 vs 5 like her title indicates.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. I kinda felt I was being cookie cutter with her build. I always finished Hydra no matter what, as if I HAD TO before I did anything else. I don't know why haha. I'll try that cleaver, thanks. Maybe I was making a mistake with my parries too. Sometimes when I would use it during a skirmish, it would be on CD after we disengage and he would just ult to kill me. Guess my mechanics still suck with her :/

Anags1 votes

It's mostly problems with your build. You have zero armor pen and you could also build one MR item and that would help a lot.

You can't really go hydra into trinity every game and expect to win. Also, playing her mid to late game can be a challenge. Change your build up, try different things.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

Might sound stupid, but would a LDR / Mortal be decent on Fiora? I usually try the hydra into (Tri or BC) then pretty much tanky with armor / MR and what not. I am going to start playing around with builds. I have been very cookie cutter with her and I should know better. Guess I should hit some norms with her to tinker with things.

Ralanr1 votes

Mortal reminder would work against high sustain opponents, but I wouldn't rush it early.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

I know it's not a written rule or anything, but could I rush the build on another item after tiamat or skip tiamat altogether? I always do the same tiamat > boots > hydra > everything else build.

Ralanr1 votes

You can. Sometimes it's not a good idea too.

Oglaf1 votes

Vayne or Quinn

I know you didn't ask for counter picks, but it is kind of a rock-paper-scissor situation honestly.

Martensitic1 votes

Enjoy trying to play those against a good toplane Rammus or a Malphite who knows how to work with his jungler :D

Neko Caitlyn1 votes

Those dont "counter pick" anything. They are nothing but free food for the other team.

Mr Broken Wings1 votes

Just scale up, I mean fiora doesnt need to win lane, if she gets 3 items she can just splitpush and oneshot the tanks anyway. Seriously, if the tank wants to ignore you, ignore him, its pretty easy. If you are good at fiora you should have more mappressure then him midgame. Malphite is also an easier matchup for fiora then for other champions, I dont see the problem honestly.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

I'm still learning Fiora so there's things I have to work out. I'm thinking my issue with Malphite was probably my parry timing. I tried to parry his (e?), the slowing skill to prevent the obvious hit to my attack speed. Plus his little rock roll skill did more damage than expected. I was hoping it would cause him to run out of mana but just didn't seem to happen. Who knows, maybe I just need this match up more to learn it.

Danyoja1 votes

Tanks are usually very mana hungry (bar Shen) with very long cooldowns and melee. Bully them early when they tryy to CS, bait out their moves to waste their mana, and once they're low on mana starve them out of farm. Also always fight them when you have a huge minion wave so if they attack you they take extra damage. If they are pushing you all the way to tower just call for the jungler, some tanks wont have very good escapes and if they do it's usually on their ult meaning you can fight them knowing they won't have their ult for the next minute. For bruisers like Darius and Garen Illoai they usually have poor escapes and don't scale as well as a full ad champ so farm until you think you can take them or a gank opportunity arrives. For colossus users, it is tricky cause the shield is strong and even stronger when your jungle comes, best bet imo is to build sustain and take the CC but disengage as much as possible or take it in the early levels before they have ult and then heal up and trade back.

About the best advice I can give.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

Thanks. I appreciate that. Maybe I should try to be a bit more aggro early and burn their mana as you said. Sometimes I catch myself in the "omg I need to get a kill" mode and I go too try hard, causing me to make mistakes. It's not so much the bruisers that give me trouble but the straight up tanks. I just find it odd they build no damage items but can still 1v1 me. Maybe my runes? My mechanics? I'm still learning fiora so I'm trying to figure this out.

takeZOOOOOO1 votes

Tanks doing more dmg than actuall carries is nothing new in league of legends:/

Manwich Tuesday1 votes

I think any time you consider top lane success by who wins the 1v1's during lane phase, you're missing the greater strategic elements. Any AD top lane is going to be a devastating tower push threat that will warrant attention from the other team long after the lane phase.

A tank top that may push or sustain against you will be most valuable not for shutting down your lane phase, but for what he contributes to the team fight long after the lane phase. It's two different elements, and the early phase does not determine your overall game success. You may have to play a bit slower than normal, but not dying will also mean he's playing the same speed as you.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

My thinking is "damn I have no cc with my champ and he does. I should shut him down in lane before his cc becomes super effective vs my team out of lane phase." I think that's where my "urgent" desire to kill him comes from. I feel useless and bad at times when they can ult or cc to help their team but my only hope is to jump on a carry in hopes of killing them (which I fail at due to the cc / peels.) :/

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