Is there room in LOL for a Mesmer style champ?

Linna Excel··4 votes·867 views

Going all the way back nearly 10 years ago, in the age of when WoW was released there was the mythical game called Guild Wars 1. It didn't have the 1 back then. In it there was a very unique class called mesmers.

It's not too hard to explain what they were in terms of gameplay, but they were considered a support type champion whose primary role was to counterplay other classes. Without going into too much detail, they were very good at locking down one specific thing if set up correctly. However if you didn't bring the right skills for an encounter you were screwed. If you brought a few skills for everything you'd have a little effect all over, but nothing huge to bring down one foe with. In MtH terms they were very white/blue in their ability to answer others.

A final note on their gameplay - they were a very difficult to learn to use and set up, but once you learned them, they were a very easy class to play. So a LOL mesmer style champ would have to be a character you aren't just going to do well in the beginning and need to invest time in.

Thematically, they were broken up into illusion, domination, and inspiration. Gameplay they focused on things like hitting the other teams mana, interrupting skills, punishment skills, health degeneration, and basically a lot of stuff that took you down indirectly. You even had options for stealing an enemy's skills or increasing his cooldowns. Now you could point out leblanc and while she certainly has an illusion thematic, with the loss of the silence, she doesn't really fit the overall role and theme of a mesmer, even if she passes the eyeball test.

Now, I really liked domination mesmers, though without hexes a character designed for punishment seems harder to pull off. The only way I can think of doing it is a champ who's ult lets him flip skills (without another model). One group might have more damage based on your targets AD and Armor while the other would have more damage based on AP and MR.

The other option I see is a character who can not only deal damage, but also hurt the other team's mana. Take something like Chaos Storm (it was bad for most of GW1's life). A small 3 second AoE effect that not only dealt damage, but hurt enemy's mana bars would be interesting. Or energy surge would be cool. One foe takes damage and loses mana and every enemy near him takes damage. Something like visions of regret would be cool, but I don't know how that would be pulled off. A champ with a silence would be almost mandatory. Something that's a cross between diversion and wastrel's demise would be weird, but riot fun. You either not use a skill give up health to keep your cooldowns the same or if you use a skill, it gets a big CD penalty.

I'd love to see an interruption effect but I'm not sure how it'd work in LOL. Maybe a shield that if hit by a spell, negates the spell while damaging and silencing the attacker, but if you hit someone with an AA you are blinded/damaged but can still use spells. While I'm getting off-track it's not technically Mesmer-ish, a champ with skills that let the enemy pick how he's getting screwed seems like something Riot should try. MtG just tried something like that in the form of tribute.

Finally I see a few inspiration skills that'd make good passives. Lyssa's aura would be fun, but that's been tried in SOADA with Vexie so the numbers need to be right for it to be usable. A modified form of tease would be fun too. Enemy skills cost 5%-10% more mana and that extra cost goes directly into your mana bar. Or maybe something simple like channeling where every time you cast a spell, you gain or steal 5-10 mana from every nearby enemy. The defensive stances could also be used as a passive. Take physical damage, you get +20% AR but lose 10% MR, and vice versa for taking magic damage.

To a non-rioter like myself it seems like you could get the basis for 2-3 champions out of these ideas.

@Riot @Morello @Meddler

PS. Mods - I'm posting this discussion here not because I'm saying here's a champ idea, but I'm wondering if this style of character would be doable in LOL mechanically.

PPS. To everyone saying Leblanc I'm talking about larger mechanical issues that GW had.

PPPS. I don't want to talk about GW2 mesmers.

11 Comments

Kitsuki052 votes

I know what you're talking about, and I'd absolutely love to see something like the sword mesmers they have in GW2. Though I'm not too sure support is the best role for that type of char tbh

Linna Excel2 votes

While I think it's cool to have a class that shoots lasers out of their swords, that doesn't really fit well into the original mesmer ideas. Also in practice all those subtle differences between illusions, phantasms, and shadows borderline on the needless complex, as well as supposedly being useless in PvP in that game.

And while I called them supports, in that game's terms they were. They weren't primary DDs, tanks, or healers. But GW was a little weird because for awhile the healer class was the best tank, the mage class was the best healer, and the melee tanks where the best DDs, with the right build of course.

Sword mesmers are... I dunno what they were supposed to be. Bizarre spellblades I guess. I need to play GW2 again. And why can't a GW2 mesmer have a pistol in both hands? Why only off-handed? I really think that Anet didn't want to bring back mesmers but were forced to bring back something because of fan demand.

GW1 mesmers were a very unique class in MMOdom.

Serpents Embrace2 votes

So agreed. :( The mesmers in GW2 really only shared a name with the GW counterparts.

And I'm still bitter over the loss of my Ritualists with the addition of Engineers telling me they'll never come back since all their functionality is in-game under a different name/look already.

And as for League support, I feel like that's where this chamipon would end up being. Mesmers aren't meant to have high DPS and they aren't meant to be tanky. Thematically, I can't see them being initiators either - they're more likely to stall a fight because the more they disable before shit goes down the better chance they have. Unless there's some weird scaling forced in to the kit, the disables would be static and unaffected by farm... Skills like Diversion or Shame/Guilt would be better not scaling because then the mesmer would literally make sure an opponent couldn't play at all if they got ahead and their scalings went crazy. Only things like Backfire/Empathy/Visions of Regret would really be able to scale because they deal damage.

Further thought - the main reason GW2 mesmers fell so flat to me was the lack of interrupts. Mesmer's had SO MANY interupts with SO MANY cool effects if you successfully stopped a skill, sometimes only one of a certain type! Complicate for Signets, Power Drain for Spells etc. But League doesn't have a system like that in place - most abilities can't be interrupted once they're cast and because champions have so few abilities an interrupt's power would increase dramatically just by existing. As well as being a huge undertaking in changing existing spells to be cancelled by this new ability.

Linna Excel4 votes

Yes I'm thinking a mesmer might be either a mage/support or a support/assassin.

Also GW2 mesmers were wrong not only for the lack of interrupts (which was huge) but also for the lack of hexes and ways to deny or punish the enemy for acting. GW1 was designed for PvP with PvE tacked on more and more later. As I see it, GW1 mesmers were a class solely designed for PvP, it wasn't until just before they stopped supporting the game that mesmers got a PvE fix. I mean they were designed to counterplay the other team and limit the other guys options.

GW2 was a PvE game with PvP tacked on and in that situation (with no hexes or interrupts) a mesmer is kind of crippled by default.

Serpents Embrace3 votes

When friends asked me to play GW2 I gave them a speech so similar to that and none of them understood. @.@ It's so nice to know I'm not alone in that opinion.

Serpents Embrace2 votes

I think about this a lot, and honestly, I don't think it would work.

It's just not... direct enough to be presented clearly in League's client. There's no enchantment/hex system players already know - debuffs and buffs aren't displayed as clearly or explained in-game in detail. You'd use your Steel Tempest and then be really confused as to why it's on a 10 second cooldown instead of 1.33.

Additionally, it wouldn't be nice from the mesmer's end either. You'd use your Diversion and then Ahri uses her ultimate. You add whatever seconds to it, but it won't matter because you're dead and she won't go in until she has it again.

Mana drain wouldn't be as fun or effective as Energy drain in GW because not everyone is tethered to mana. The existence of non-mana champions makes it kind of weak functionally. Sort of like that really old Wit's End. It was SO STRONG against people who really needed mana and SO WEAK against the champions that didn't need it or use it at all.

I think LeBlanc really is the closest they can do to what a mesmer was really capable of. :\

PPPS No one ever wants to talk about GW2 "mesmers".

Linna Excel2 votes

I think about this a lot, and honestly, I don't think it would work.

It's just not... direct enough to be presented clearly in League's client. There's no enchantment/hex system players already know - debuffs and buffs aren't displayed as clearly or explained in-game in detail. You'd use your Steel Tempest and then be really confused as to why it's on a 10 second cooldown instead of 1.33.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'd really love something like a mesmer, but I doubt it'd be easy. I guess that's why I'm asking, I think Riot loves taking on challenges. I also know that Morello worked on GW1 so I'm hoping he'd have a good idea how to do something like a mesmer in a LOL friendly manner.

Additionally, it wouldn't be nice from the mesmer's end either. You'd use your Diversion and then Ahri uses her ultimate Or you cast it on her before she uses her charm or Orb and then sees that one of those skills are disabled for the rest of the fight. Sure you might be dead, but she's without a key QWE skill for 30 seconds.

While I get what you are saying, and I'd agree it'd probably need a damage component, I just brought it up because being able to lock down part of what an opponent can so is something mesmerish. They could also go with one of the I just stole your skills spells. Imagine being able to steal someone's ult for 30 seconds and use it against them. Hey Karthus, nice ult, let me borrow it. Soraka, I like your Wish, I'm going to use it on my team. Hi trynd, you are pissing me off, I'm just going to steal your ult before you use it.

Mana drain wouldn't be as fun or effective as Energy drain in GW because not everyone is tethered to mana. The existence of non-mana champions makes it kind of weak functionally.

Yeah, some form of anti-mana skill would need to be more than just anti-mana. But still in certain matchups, this mesmer champ would either force you to build more mana items than you want to or else use your skills less than you wanted to. Maybe adding cooldown or damage to someone's skills if they don't have mana would be an option. Like lose 10% of its cost in mana or else take a 20% longer cooldown/take magic damage.

Serpents Embrace1 votes

I hadn't thought of a Backfire like spell... taking magic damage on ability use (or Empathy so they'd take it on basic attacks) would be kind of cool but again there would need to be a very clear way of showing the Hexed player that "hey, don't do this for X duration or else!" which I think could be difficult.

As for Arcane Larceny... I'd be cool but how would they keep track of cooldowns? Could you steal Karthus ultimate every 60 seconds and then use it more often than he could? Would it disable, or just copy, because it seems like it would be allowed to be more powerful if it just copied.

Linna Excel2 votes

Well, you could probably let them know with some kind of shield like particle effect or graphic. Maybe a lightning bubble that shocks them whenever they attack or cast a spell. It'd probably be too much work, but it'd be cool if lightning surrounded their skill bar as a tell.

As for Arcane Larceny, you'd probably disable the skill on your target for 10-15 seconds or so giving you a small window to use it.

Elementilist2 votes

Mana drain wouldn't be as fun or effective as Energy drain in GW because not everyone is tethered to mana. The existence of non-mana champions makes it kind of weak functionally. You can make it so against mana champions it takes mana, and against energy it takes energy, but against fury/manaless champs it increases their spell cds or just completely wipes out the bar

Linna Excel2 votes

Yes, that would be an option.

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