Why is Galio a warden, and not a hybrid vanguard\battle mage?

Lùmen·Mar 10, 2017·9 votes·2,088 views

He had so much potential to be a unique hybrid. I don't even think that being a warden suits him, he definitely leans towards the far end of aggression despite his inability to initiate..

EDIT: I am not saying his gameplay suggests he is anything but a warden, but his personality and pre-rework playstyle make me want to say otherwise. He looks like he can be one hell of a nasty threat if he'd catch you with his E but in truth, he doesn't really do much.. I don't even think full AP Galio will ever have the taste of a one shot like old Galio had.

32 Comments

fuffychanMar 10, 20173 votes

Theres no such thing as "wardens" or "vanguards", stop using these idiotic terms.

BeatzBoyFTWMar 10, 20176 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Here's something for your League education to avoid self-stupidity.

fuffychanMar 10, 20173 votes

That is so retarded. This isnt WoW.

BeatzBoyFTWMar 10, 20174 votes

.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Legends

....please.

fuffychanMar 10, 20173 votes

That post is from 9 months ago. This game has been out for 8 years, and those terms didnt exist.

If the US government arbitrarily decided that "dogs" were now to be called "megadolladoggodoodles", you would still call them dogs, because there is no such thing as "megadolladoggodoodles", and it sounds idiotic.

BeatzBoyFTWMar 10, 20174 votes

Still doesn't change the fact that League was still inspired from Warcraft.

megadolladoggodoodles

I hope to god that dogs were actually evolved from this lol.

fuffychanMar 10, 20171 votes

Then why werent those terms in the game at creation, instead of randomly thrown into a blogpost 8 years later?

SilverjustMar 10, 20173 votes

because riot recently figued out a better way to put champions in different classes and it makes more sense

LùmenMar 10, 20171 votes

Ah, it's that fuffy kid downvoting everyone here. Salty because nobody agrees with his silly opinions.

Hong Kong RevoltMar 11, 20171 votes

These terms are new. Skirmishers were called Light Fighters at one point, and Melee carries prior. However, these terms were outdated in DotA, where melee carries could be anything from Anti-Mage to Sven, but they don't play the same or even build similar items. Creating the Juggernaut class as a word helps new players understand why Darius can kill them in a duel when most tanks would die. I mean sure, we could put fighter, secondary assassin, or tank, secondary assassin, but then new players would pick 1 or the other and not realize it's a mixed class.

EuthenaasiaMar 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Here's something for your League education to avoid self-stupidity.

Yeah, this post is there. That much is right. It still isn't very well thought out and as a Taliyah player we all know that Taliyah is most certainly a control mage so there is already some error there. They should really revise this whole subclass thing into more than a forum post imo.

LùmenMar 10, 20174 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

Now stop shitposting

Very Hard EngageMar 10, 20173 votes

riot only gave those terms to appease outdated questions like "why is alistar a tank?"

the terms are worthless and every champion can fit a role based on what they build and how they play. dont you dare say a champions best way to be played is in _____ situation.

LùmenMar 10, 20172 votes

It's best to go full AP with Galio and consider yourself a tanky burst mage if you get an early lead and rush rabadon after RoA.

RalanrMar 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

riot only gave those terms to appease outdated questions like "why is alistar a tank?"

the terms are worthless and every champion can fit a role based on what they build and how they play. dont you dare say a champions best way to be played is in _____ situation.

Team needs a tank? Time to play tank Lucian.

Edit: in this scenario, Lucian is still the adc in bot lane.

Very Hard EngageMar 10, 20172 votes

tank lucian is a thing.

item 3075 first item. that cait/jinx didn't know what hit em.

follow up with item 3742 and item 3025

the issue at hand is you aren't adapting your playstyle, you're still playing them like an adc.

people just dont want to think outside the box or try new things, they want their same 6 recommended items every single game because its easy for them, they dont have to think about it.

if you find the enemy team has zed, yasuo, jinx, ashe, and a graves on it. what are you going to build as lucian?

i for one, would build tabis over berserk, 1 triforce for damage, and then straight armor and focus on 1v1ing instead of trying to 1v5 on the front line. guarantees a successful fight that anyone of them cant win and you now have a 5v4 that you can run down mid with.

RalanrMar 10, 20171 votes

Team needs magic damage? Guess I'll buy Lichbane and a fuck ton of AP on Darius.

It's not that every champion can't build for the situation, it's that Champions are terrible or great for an intended job based on how their kits work.

You wouldn't build current Galio AD if you needed a physical damage threat. He'd be incredibly useless until he got close enough to hit someone and even then it would have been better to build AP. Nor would you build AD on Karthus, AP on Yasuo, crit on Anivia, thornmail on Ashe etc.

Not every champion can fulfill a role based on what they build and how they play, especially not to the level of someone who is more suited for that role. Tank Lucian gimps his team by taking away a damage source and instead being a tanky ranged character that only offers soft CC. He couldn't do enough damage to peel nor does he really have the ability to catch people out or engage.

And if he somehow did, it would be much worse than having an actual tank.

Very Hard EngageMar 10, 20172 votes

its done with a goal in mind and accomplishes a specific task. so long as that task gets done it creates a win. ofc it wont work every game, and it will be a struggle anyway, but it sure beats a gauranteed loss by continuing down a full ADC path on lucian when the enemy team has 5 thornmails and bursty/cc.

tell me at what point do you ever swap your normal build, to tech something in, like a cleaver, why build cleaver on lucian if its not recommended? because it helps you shred armor.

well why build GA or BV if its not recommended? to ignore clutch annie flash R's.

why build merc scim? to escape the galio/amumu ult.

why did you build thornmail? to punish the 5 atk speed kog maw. why did you build deadmans? to add burst to my auto while i negated his AD.

a full tank lucian is highly teched and very situational, but it could work given a 5enemy adc situation. thats not to say lucian cant be a tank, when clearly he is in this situation.

which is why no pro level player, give a rats behind what you call a champion, they just say "alistar did this, oh that was really smart of him to pick up a QSS to evade the malz ulti like that so he could peel for the kog"

RalanrMar 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

its done with a goal in mind and accomplishes a specific task. so long as that task gets done it creates a win. ofc it wont work every game, and it will be a struggle anyway, but it sure beats a gauranteed loss by continuing down a full ADC path on lucian when the enemy team has 5 thornmails and bursty/cc.

tell me at what point do you ever swap your normal build, to tech something in, like a cleaver, why build cleaver on lucian if its not recommended? because it helps you shred armor.

well why build GA or BV if its not recommended? to ignore clutch annie flash R's.

why build merc scim? to escape the galio/amumu ult.

why did you build thornmail? to punish the 5 atk speed kog maw. why did you build deadmans? to add burst to my auto while i negated his AD.

Cleaver: also offers me some durability and damage, so I'm not losing much in building it.

GA: revive is nice (I don't see ADCs building banshee anymore).

Merc Sim: also gives AD. If people only bought it for the cleanse, then you'd see it (not just QSS) on more than just ADCs more often. I'm talking about mages building a 75 AD item for that ability despite not using the AD.

Thornmail: you actually gimped yourself because Thornmail isn't good without other armor items and doesn't provide you health either. If you're an adc, you're going to be building more damage to kill him first instead of trying to outlast his damage to kill him.

Deadmans: the extra auto burst really isn't worth it ever on an adc over a crit item. You're really just gimping yourself.

Yes there are builds for certain situations, but builds only really work when the items can be used efficiently. Otherwise we'd be seeing ADCs and mages all building full armor builds whenever assassins are strong. We both know this is not the case.

Very Hard EngageMar 10, 20172 votes

again, you outright ignore the possibility of it or the shrug away the thought outright, failing to see its potential.

not that its likely, but it could be a better situation than 6 item build cait vs jhin vs draven situation where a single auto is going to 2k crit someones face off.

im not saying its great, but its better to build tank lucian with just a triforce when the enemy team has 5 adcs than it is to build your normal path and hope to out dps all 5 of them.

this is exactly the situation to tech in some armor over your normal dps path, items up to you.

RalanrMar 10, 20172 votes

I'm not ignoring the possibility, I'm saying the possibility is incredibly unlikely because it is very bad.

If the enemy has 5 ADCs then tank is literally the worst build on Lucian because ADCs are meant to shred tanks. You'd want to go full AD burst Lucian so you can kill them before they kill you and try to catch each out 1v1.

And in the 6 item situation, it's usually decided by the first auto because that's how ADCs work.

It's not impossible, it's just not done because it is a bad idea. If it wasn't, then you would be seeing tank ADCs all throughout this season. Except we aren't seeing any (except for Tabi, but that doesn't really have a drawback in them buying it since they either go ad caster lethality or get enough AS from their 4 other items).

Again, not impossible just extremely bad and unlikely to be built.

PermabannedGarenMar 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

tank lucian is a thing.

Yeah if you're bad and play against people who are bad.

Very Hard EngageMar 11, 20171 votes

i wholly agree its a bad build and serves no purpose other than to counterbuild the enemy. but on the bright side you negated them, what they were trying to do, and won the fight just for building his weakness anyway.

its the equivalent to a veigar building item 3085 item 3115 awful in every sense, but eventually you 1hko everyone without needing skill shots.

PermabannedGarenMar 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

i wholly agree its a bad build and serves no purpose other than to counterbuild the enemy. but on the bright side you negated them, what they were trying to do, and won the fight just for building his weakness anyway.

No you didn't. They just ignore you because you do much less damage than an actual tank and provide no CC or utility at all, then kill you once your team is dead because it was almost literally a 4v5.

If you built tank Lucian against me while I was playing ADC I would literally walk right past you to kill people, because you can do exactly nothing to stop me. This isn't the case with an actual tank, be it a vanguard or a warden.

OurLestradeMar 10, 20172 votes

He was meant to be a Warden sort originally wasn't he? Most of his kit was about peel with slows, speed boosts, damage reduction and hard CC.

LùmenMar 10, 20171 votes

The reputation of a killer tank that the community built him as time passed by was well maintained. It reached its pinnacle when Imaqtpie uploaded the video of him going RoA > Rabadon and literally doing almost 2k damage with his ult. I really liked the idea of having to rely on Bulwark for survivability and trying to reach the backline with his ult. I guess that it was really disgusting in a way if the Galio would have an early game lead because he snowballs out of control very easily with a single kill when going that route. I just wanted Riot to embrace the identity that the community gave him (sort of)

Very Hard EngageMar 10, 20172 votes

no he wasn't, when he was originally created it was done so with options in mind, hence the ap scaling and not health scaling. hence the self heal and ally buff for support capabilities, hence the team wide MS buff.

look at how much damage he has in his kit, its comparable to most other burst ap mages. (except syndra whos queen)

heres galios

300, 240, 720, (1260base ) with 60, 50, 108% (218% cap) scaling.

compared to say annie,

220, 250, 400 (870base) with 80, 85% 65% (230%)

riot has effectively removed his burst mage options and forced him into a front line spot only. when he could be played as a tank already pending build.

Chaos Milk TeaMar 10, 20172 votes

He IS going to be a hybrid. He has cc and damage, and they intend for his damage to be low if you don't invest in it.

LùmenMar 10, 20171 votes

Um.. Why did someone downvote this. This actually makes perfect sense now that I think of it. Solcrushed just put an AP ratio on his pasive too

OleandervineMar 10, 20171 votes

They factor in the initial concept of the character when they were first conceived years ago when they do reworks, and if they had originally intended to design Galio to be a tank who focused on MR and played competitively against both top laners and mages, then they would have gone back to that concept and re-envisioned Galio's kit with today's design standards.

aaronconlinMar 10, 20171 votes

I liked old Galio, and the rework looks promising. However, my two favorite things about old Galio are now gone. The explosion after his ult based on how many attacks he absorbs, and the buff/heal

Teridax68Mar 10, 20171 votes

I've tested Galio on the PBE, and in practice he basically feels like either a vanguard with lots of damage, or a diver with lots of CC. Either way, he doesn't really feel like a warden, since he doesn't interact that much with allies, and he doesn't really feel like that much of a battle mage either, since most of his damage ends up happening at melee range after he dashes into combat. I want Galio to be a hybrid warden/battle mage, but I don't think that's going to happen with his VGU here.