Just me or are Lethality builder now alot more oppressive than Youmuu's rushers? Never had people complain about the ADCs and toplaners that built Youmuus before they changed it. Opinions?
Please don't downvote if you don't think it should be reverted I am just asking for opinions.
Irelia Bot4 votesI would like to see only one or two Lethality items in the game.
MaeDoSan2 votesThey should apply lethality before the % shred so that the % shred effectively actually shreds the lethality itself making it useless against tanks
This will put a timer on assassins and adcs who build lethality to end the game before the tanks become unkillable leaving the crit building adcs the option to stall till late game to win with higher dps , making lethality stacking more of a gamble than a reliable build
They could probably change LW items to what it was before , reduce total armor by 30 % so if the opposing team has LW and B Cleaver , if an adc has 80 lethality , a 300 armor tank will have 110 armor ((300 - 80 ) x 0.7 x 0.7 = 107.8) so he will take 48 % damage from the adc
Compared to an adc with crit and attackspeed (300 x 0.7 x 0.7 = 147 armor ) will do 40.5 % damage ,
Whereas currently LW black cleaver reduce a 300 armor tank to ( assuming 90 base armor ) (210 x 0.7 x 0.55) + (90 x 0.7) = 144 armor which goes down to 64 armor ( -80 armor late game ) meaning 61 % damage from the lethality build
Currently the lethality build legit does 20% more damage than crit to tanks not considering crit and attackspeed , making champions like MF ( her ult ) , Varus ( q ) and Jhin ( classified as ad caster ) strong and giving them absolutely no reason to not build it
Asayake 5150glow1 votesThey should apply lethality before the % shred so that the % shred effectively actually shreds the lethality itself making it useless against tanks
This will put a timer on assassins and adcs who build lethality to end the game before the tanks become unkillable leaving the crit building adcs the option to stall till late game to win with higher dps , making lethality stacking more of a gamble than a reliable build
They could probably change LW items to what it was before , reduce total armor by 30 % so if the opposing team has LW and B Cleaver , if an adc has 80 lethality , a 300 armor tank will have 110 armor ((300 - 80 ) x 0.7 x 0.7 = 107.8) so he will take 48 % damage from the adc
Compared to an adc with crit and attackspeed (300 x 0.7 x 0.7 = 147 armor ) will do 40.5 % damage ,
Whereas currently LW black cleaver reduce a 300 armor tank to ( assuming 90 base armor ) (210 x 0.7 x 0.55) + (90 x 0.7) = 144 armor which goes down to 64 armor ( -80 armor late game ) meaning 61 % damage from the lethality build
Currently the lethality build legit does 20% more damage than crit to tanks not considering crit and attackspeed , making champions like MF ( her ult ) , Varus ( q ) and Jhin ( classified as ad caster ) strong and giving them absolutely no reason to not build it
Well you can't exactly look at a crit and attack speed build and not talk about the crit and attack speed, can you?
Lethality is just much stronger with the meta (burst), I believe, as well as being overtuned as of now.
MaeDoSan1 votesThis is absolute late game , mid game the difference will be greater . All I'm saying is that lethality does a pretty good job even late which it should not be doing Buying flat pen to kill squishes and also being able to go after the tanks defeats the purpose The reason crit and attack speed are less relevant is because only ad casters can abuse the current state of lethality
Asayake 5150glow1 votesThis is absolute late game , mid game the difference will be greater . All I'm saying is that lethality does a pretty good job even late which it should not be doing Buying flat pen to kill squishes and also being able to go after the tanks defeats the purpose The reason crit and attack speed are less relevant is because only ad casters can abuse the current state of lethality
Yes, Lethality is better against tanks than it should be, but you can't think that late game, the hyperscaling trifecta of attack speed, crit, and AD isn't gonna massively outclass it against tanks.
MaeDoSan1 votesDidn't I just show you how it can ?
Asayake 5150glow1 votesDidn't I just show you how it can ?
No, because you didn't count in the, yunno, crit, or attack speed.
Crit, attack speed, and mage damage is usually based off of incredibly high burst or dps, then letting armor/mr reduce that, but not enough so that it still shreds through them. LW just helps - a tank will still have over 40% damage reduction at the very least after Last Whisper itself, but because damage itself is so massive, 60% of it is plenty to kill.
Lethality and armor pen, on the other hand, is based off of base damage and flat AD scalings, and then amping up those damages by reducing the amount that is negated by resists, by a %. The initial damage is much less, but instead of being reduced by 40%, it's only being reduced by 10% - against squishies, anyway. That's a 60% to 90% damage increase - 50% more damage than you would've done without the Lethality/armor pen.
What you calculated was how much % damage would be resisted by LW and BC alone, and then how much % damage would be resisted by LW, BC, and Lethality. You in no way accounted for the crit or attack speed, which make the initial damage before reduction much, much, more. I mean, of course LW+BC is gonna be reduced more by armor than the exact same things, plus Lethality.
So no, you didn't. You showed me how a build with Lethality does more damage than a build with nothing at all.
MaeDoSan1 votesWhat is your point ? doing 40% of your damage with crit and attack speed vs tanks will be more doing 48% of you damage without crit or attack speed vs tanks will be less
Asayake 5150glow1 votesWhat is your point ? doing 40% of your damage with crit and attack speed vs tanks will be more doing 48% of you damage without crit or attack speed vs tanks will be less
That was my point?
MaeDoSan1 votesThen why don't you want that change ?
Asayake 5150glow1 votesThen why don't you want that change ?
What change?
I'm just saying that late game crit outscales Lethality against tanks.
MaeDoSan1 votesAre you sure ? 40% compared to 60% on tanks is not exactly out scaling when the adcs also get zeal items late game, not even comparing their dmg against squishes Maybe you should show the math to prove that that even now lethality builds are out scaled by crit ? The change I expalined before where lethality applies before % pen
Asayake 5150glow1 votesAre you sure ? 40% compared to 60% on tanks is not exactly out scaling when the adcs also get zeal items late game, not even comparing their dmg against squishes Maybe you should show the math to prove that that even now lethality builds are out scaled by crit ?
I would if I had time, but lets just say 60% of 800 is more than 80% of 400
MaeDoSan1 votesLet me make this simpler for you vs crit tanks have 50 % more effective hp compared to lethality, if that doesn't raise a red flag then i don't know what will Lethality adcs do build one zeal item so its not like they dont crit and lack attack speed The bigger problem is adcs like mf jhin , varus gain a massive mid game spike while paying a small price late game when it comes to damage , but due to their early spike they are probably already ahead so it doesn't matter And all of this is discussed in context of tanks What lethality does to squishes is evidently clear , so why don't you get that lethality is not healthy in its current state on several adcs
Asayake 5150glow1 votesLet me make this simpler for you vs crit tanks have 50 % more effective hp compared to lethality, if that doesn't raise a red flag then i don't know what will Lethality adcs do build one zeal item so its not like they dont crit and lack attack speed The bigger problem is adcs like mf jhin , varus gain a massive mid game spike while paying a small price late game when it comes to damage , but due to their early spike they are probably already ahead so it doesn't matter And all of this is discussed in context of tanks What lethality does to squishes is evidently clear , so why don't you get that lethality is not healthy in its current state on several adcs
I'm not saying Lethality is fine - it's not. I'm totally in favor of making it apply before % pen, as well as lowering the scaling.
However, full crit ADC's outdps Lethality ADC's heavily come late game vs tanks.
sobi9991 votesLethality is opressive for everyone currently and not just tanks. The lethality items are very slot-efficent and people abuse them early game where everyone has low base armor. However with these items they get sufficient AD with them that even at late game this can do true damage. Snowball champs don't need to snowball now but just farm until they get their hands on these items.. Mages already have a restricted armor build so they suffer alongside tanks. You literally get deleted less than a second which means there is no counterplay to it. The build path to lethality should be much more restricted so not every AD champ can stack it even those that rely on crit or on-hit are stacking lethality now because of how oppressive it is.
Big Lincoln1 votesno, lethality is fantastic for my 
builds
