Just look at Sylas Kit, ridiculous amount of healing and shields to make up for the lack of ap bruiser itemization. Something that benefit a melee AP bruiser? Like a AP Tiamat? AP Black cleaver for melee ? AP Spear of shojin for melee ? AP Sterak Cage for melee ?
Alzon28 votesMeddler said they know there’s a hole in itemization for beefy AP champs, but until they come up with something that won’t be abused (and have time to work on it), they’re just applying band-aid fixes to the champs. If we’re lucky, we’ll see a new item come out with Mordekaiser’s rework, since he’s the poster boy for “AP Juggernaut” and they’ll want more of a reason for people to play him (like Lucian buffs with High Noon release).
en2que2 votesThis, AD assassins building bruiser items is still an issue. Would you really want to see a 3k+ hp fizz/lb that can still 1 shot stuff?
DUGNAZ11 votesMeddler said they know there’s a hole in itemization for beefy AP champs, but until they come up with something that won’t be abused (and have time to work on it), they’re just applying band-aid fixes to the champs. If we’re lucky, we’ll see a new item come out with Mordekaiser’s rework, since he’s the poster boy for “AP Juggernaut” and they’ll want more of a reason for people to play him (like Lucian buffs with High Noon release).
We all know Riot is probably going to gut morde and turn him into something gimpy in comparison to himself.
For all we know with the last handful of VGU.. He's gonna be without armor and have a little thong and dilly hanging out. Gotta sexualize for the new generations
Alzon1 votesThey already had Malicious Metal himself come in so he could vouch for the Mordekaiser rework after some playtesting. I for one trust MM not to just spout something Riot told him to and instead share his actual thoughts, so long as they don’t break the non-disclosure agreement. You did read MM’s post, right?
DUGNAZ11 votesThey already had Malicious Metal himself come in so he could vouch for the Mordekaiser rework after some playtesting. I for one trust MM not to just spout something Riot told him to and instead share his actual thoughts, so long as they don’t break the non-disclosure agreement. You did read MM’s post, right?
No, could you provide a link for me?
Relius D Ornez9 votesIf they are so afraid that 
and 
will abuse AP bruiser items that they are willing to leave the class as a whole gutted, then why not just adjust them so they aren't such a horrible threat and be done with it.
Ralanr2 votesHonestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins.
Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem.
Craktite1 votesHonestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins.
Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem.
But Maokai, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain Ryze are ap bruiser !
Ralanr1 votesNo. The first three are tanks and the rear are battle mages.
wolvius1 votesHonestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins.
Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem.
Don't forget cassio, see and ryze both F'd up abyssal mask as a defensive option for non-tanks.
Ralanr1 votesYeah...but isn’t that what banshees is for?
wolvius1 votesYeah...but isn’t that what banshees is for?
In an age where true damage is so common HP is king due to offering defense to both damage types.(also things like ludens echo passive breaking the shield is irratating as hell) Anyway my point was that Cassio always breaks AP items for other champs , like she synergise so well with items like rylais it is weak for most other AP's.
the most underrated 3 item build for ap bruisers
go into any of
depending on your build
works fine with current conq
ap bruisers also all have auto scaling so
work well,
offers pushing power
is also a decent AP bruiser option, HP,AP and stickyness. If only the slow was slightly stronger or lasted longer for melee range abilities/ staying close to victims.
hrooza dota 1 voteshonestly all of them could use ap ratios decrease if we got such items. and for ryze/swain it could be just melee limited ap item
Rock MD1 votesHonestly I’m afraid of champions like Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Sejuani, Sol, Swain, and Ryze abusing AP bruiser items more than I am assassins.
Yeah an AP bruiser Fizz is terrifying, but a full AP Malphite that isn’t squishy is a problem.
Bruiser AP Malphite won't be a thing. His followup damage is so pitiful in comparison to his initial burst he has to be full AP or have a huge lead to really be effective.
The real worries are champions with very high followup damage, like Ryze and Cassio.
Samsunger1 votesdon't you dare touch my Ekko o_O, shhhh
TyroneWatermelon1 votesnooooooooooooooo, we can't do that to popular poster boy champions can we? changing them for the better of the class will anger their playerbase
FOR JUSTICE2 votes
laughs in tank AP
Hypochondria92 votesA lot of champs would be straight busted with good AP bruiser items. Ekko, Elise, Gragas, Fizz, Eve and Rumble would likely all be problematic.
Relius D Ornez6 votesIsn't the point of Gragas to be an AP bruiser
Hypochondria91 votes[{quoted}](name=Relius D Ornez,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34F4n8Ek,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-18T15:08:18.598+0000)
Isn't the point of Gragas to be an AP bruiser
Yes, but he is balanced around current itemization, if you add in items catered to him he will need some nerfs.
Hammermancer1 votesA lot of champs would be straight busted with good AP bruiser items. Ekko, Elise, Gragas, Fizz, Eve and Rumble would likely all be problematic.
Considering that 
who are the AP assassins dont go bruiser.. idunno it's just a point
aren't that bad as bruisers, the issue is when they're overtuned, otherwise they have very bruisery kits, moreso than assassin kits
can be buffed by dealing more with ratios than base damages
would be healthier if he did less damage in exchange for more tank
also wouldn't build most of these items because of their weakness for ranged champs and the interaction wiith their ranged forms
Yes, but he is balanced around current itemization, if you add in items catered to him he will need some nerfs.
Gragas has no items for his intended role so he was poorly hotfixed to function in his intended role, therefore we shouldn't address the initial problem bc we threw a board over the pothole
Hypochondria91 votesConsidering that
Gragas has no items for his intended role so he was poorly hotfixed to function in his intended role, therefore we shouldn't address the initial problem bc we threw a board over the pothole
I'm not against the idea of adding AP bruiser items, just not without tweaking some champions first. It could just be minor changes like you stated but they would need some for sure.
TyroneWatermelon1 votesGragas has no items for his intended role so he was poorly hotfixed to function in his intended role, therefore we shouldn't address the initial problem bc we threw a board over the pothole
he has no intended role either
Samsunger1 votesshhh stop talking about talking about ekko o_O
Hammermancer1 votesshhh stop talking about talking about ekko o_O
I place a curse on you:
will become popular and then gutted, and then will recieve a yorick style rework so that if you don't like it everyone will tell you to die in fire because the new champ they replace him with will be way more popular and people wont be able to comprehend that you just want the kit mostly., meanwhile ekko will have become an artillery mage who stacks movement speed and who's backstory involves getting revenge on mordekaiser for wiping out his village that way he can be the next hokage
also he's an ftm transperson now because riot wants a tax break
Aatrox Airlines1 votesA lot of champs would be straight busted with good AP bruiser items. Ekko, Elise, Gragas, Fizz, Eve and Rumble would likely all be problematic.
Hammermancer2 votes the most underrated 3 item build for ap bruisers
go into any of
depending on your build
works fine with current conq
ap bruisers also all have auto scaling so work well, offers pushing power
Frog goes moo2 votes
go into any of
depending on your build
works fine with current conq
ap bruisers also all have auto scaling so
That doesnt really look like a bruiser build if those are your core items. That looks more like a tank build, something amumu would buy.
Hammermancer1 votes
go do it on ekko
BE A MAN
Jerry SeinfeId2 votesthere's no reason to buy on ekko. you'd probably be better off with or 
for either sustain or dps if you want to go bruiser.
should also replace abyssal as a bruiser item in an ideal world but honestly it ain't worth it most of the time.
ReZisT Lust1 votesthe burn*[zombie-brand-mindblown]*
Durzaka1 votesThose first 3 are definitely not bruiser items. They are much more tank items looking to splash a bit of damage. Bruisers are trying to buy damage and splash a bit of tank.
Basically nothing you listed is something someone like Sylas wants to build. Including those last 3, 2 of which are very much AD items that do basically nothing for AP bruisers.
Samsunger1 votesI've always wondered why there wasnt ever an AP tiamat, like there are some AP champions with shit wave clear such as 
, and 
, and ludens Echo doesn't do enough
Exin01 votesI've always wondered why there wasnt ever an AP tiamat, like there are some AP champions with shit wave clear such as
do you really think that kassadin or fizz need buff weave clear? isnt their kit balanced around shity laning phase and weak clear?
MessyStuff1 votesfizz
Where did you see Fizz? That's Kennen.
Durzaka1 votesA lot of AP have strong wave clear tho.
The ones that dont, dont have it for a specific reason.
The thigh guy1 votesUmmmmm Rylais Liandries Protobelt Glp Roa Banshees Abyssal mask Zhonyas Morello Gunblade
But I guess that’s not enough tank and damage on one set of items.
Aatrox Airlines1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34F4n8Ek,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:34:29.712+0000)
Ummmmm Rylais Liandries Protobelt Glp Roa Banshees Abyssal mask Zhonyas Morello Gunblade
But I guess that’s not enough tank and damage on one set of items.
Gunblade is not the best item for champs that dont have ad scalings or dont weave in autos Glp still exists? Rylais is kinda situational, being useful mostly on champs that can constantly reapply the slow Abyssal mask doesnt even give ap smh
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aatrox Airlines,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34F4n8Ek,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2019-02-18T22:59:41.994+0000)
Gunblade is not the best item for champs that dont have ad scalings or dont weave in autos Glp still exists? Rylais is kinda situational, being useful mostly on champs that can constantly reapply the slow Abyssal mask doesnt even give ap smh
They are all instances of a combination of ap and resistances or hp. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean they aren’t viable.
Gunblade is good on them because it gives ap, ad and healing. Not to mention every champion auto attacks, so every champion has ad scalings.
Go ahead and read the passive of abyssal mask for me and tell me with a straight face, that a melee, AP Bruiser, isn’t going to get a massive amount of value from it.
astralwit1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34F4n8Ek,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2019-02-18T23:29:30.725+0000)
They are all instances of a combination of ap and resistances or hp. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean they aren’t viable.
Gunblade is good on them because it gives ap, ad and healing. Not to mention every champion auto attacks, so every champion has ad scalings.
Go ahead and read the passive of abyssal mask for me and tell me with a straight face, that a melee, AP Bruiser, isn’t going to get a massive amount of value from it.
Gunblade is total garbage on all but a handful of champions. You're paying for AD and it doesn't have any HP. Unless your champion scales off AD as well as AP or autos a ton like Teemo, it's generally mediocre.
SanKakU1 votesLast I checked, Sylas has AD scaling on his passive and on his ultimate if the opponent has AP+AD scaling on the stolen ultimate.
Durzaka2 votesHis passive has 100% AD scaling, although im pretty sure that is just because it is a modified Basic attack rather than actual scaling.
His ult is always pure AP scaling, whose scaling is determined by the enemies scaling, both AP+AD together (if it has both).
MarkedOfKane1 votesHes getting buffed? But I usually see him do just fine..
astralwit1 votesI totally agree. It is lacking overall. Liandry's is the only decent item for it.
There are champions such as Ekko and Diana whose kits and play patterns scream bruiser but the itemization makes it mediocre. You can certainly go tanky Ekko with IBG-SV-Liandry's etc. but it feels a bit underpowered and slow (although Ekko overall isn't that great atm). Ekko's kit is the epitome of a bruiser design. Shield, utility, some mobility, a little sustained damage vs squishies. It's so obviously a bruiser design and a melee champion kind of has to go bruiser to be viable at higher ELO anyway. Look at Yasuo and many others like him. They have damage but need some tankienss too from stuff like Sterak's, Maw, GA, Visage, BC etc. It's just the way it is if you want these champions to be viable without butchering their kits.
Full damage melee builds are just not reasonable at a competitive level. Even Ekko with his shield and R still cannot realistically function without some HP, mercs, zhonya's at the very least (not vs a competent team and composition). His kit is a bruiser play pattern and requires it to be even remotely reliable in the non-snowball scenarios.
Full tank Ekko does not work and that's expected. His utility and base stats as well as base damages don't properly support a full tank style. However, having 2-3 damage items or hybrid damage items like IBG still doesn't feel impactful enough imo. Ekko is one of the most varied and interesting champions when it comes to playstyle and itemization but even he suffers a bit when trying to go some different routes. I'm hoping the new Conqueror will allow him to more successfully go a bruiser build.
Z3Sleeper1 votesInstead of overbuffing Sylas, can you like maybe
#NOT?
Glîtchy1 votesEhhhhh fuck no he's bad enough as it is with his healing auto-winning trades, so no
PermaJinxed1 votesAssuming these items would not work at all for ranged champs;
Ap would probably buff 
into super high pick/ban status because she'd hit harder when she got focused and she already builds a few defensive items (all sub-par to sterak's)
And ap 
would absolutely 100% break ... He'd have near 100% uptime on the buff in skirmishes and team fights making his burst come much faster.
Ackelope1 votesspear of shojin already has a build in counter to abuse by champions with low ultimate CD. the special effect after casting your ult has a static 30 sec CD at all points in the game, this actually tends to make it a pretty bad choice on people with low CD ults, since they trigger it on minions or other non-champion targets, and then it isn't up when they want to get into a fight. you could work around it by just not casting your ult outside of fighting, but that seems too limiting to be worth what the item offers.
ReZisT Lust1 votesI like 
with w 4 points for ranged champs with 2 point in e and the rest in q while leveling with secondary rune time warp and revitalize. Heal has been feeling nice afor me as with most runes, outta 54 games I have a 57% winrate
