Part 1 of 2: Yuumi's reveal highlights massive issues with…

chipndip1 · 2019-05-02T20:54:06.177Z

Short version: Yuumi's game play, unlike almost every other enchanter, seems to have more room for skill expression, clear strengths and weaknesses, and isn't nearly as one-dimensional as other enchanter champions (at least when looking at it). Sure, we SHOULD actually PLAY the champion before making stark conclusions on them, but for the sake of what I'm trying to accomplish here, I have a need to make a prediction before she comes out. If my prediction holds true, then I'll make a follow-up post. If it doesn't, I'll just have to make a follow-up post stating I'm wrong. That said, given what's in Yuumi's kit, and given her apparently atrocious survivability when caught, other supports that don't deal with all this extra nuance when making or denying plays will still beat out a character like Yuumi in the long run. First, let me start by saying that Yuumi's design either in a vacuum or in a world where supports (if not the entirety of bot lane) are better designed and balanced is actually quite exciting. She's an enchantress champion that can latch onto aggressive play makers to synergize with hard engages to lock down entire teams, but her defensive capabilities are rather poor. It's a cool trade off where you sacrifice defense for a safer offense for divers, skirmishers, and juggernauts, and she even has a MS boosting heal to emphasize this. HOWEVER, Yuumi, like any support in this game, is going to be tied to a marksman by the hip in nearly any competitive game of League, solo queue or pro. In this situation, Yuumi's abilities are significantly less valuable since her peel is atrocious (even her ult root can be avoided by getting hit by less than 3 waves), her damage output is bad, and if she's attached to someone, it's basically a glorified 1v2. Much like I've been saying for a mad minute (until I gave up because no one actually cares), this excessively stale state of bot lane limits the types of strategies that can be considered viable. Sure, some cheesy ass shit can crop up from time to time , but for the most part it's just marksmen game in and game out, and if you aren't relevant to that meta, you aren't relevant. So with the Yuumi-specific issue out of the way, here's the second problem: Support champions, older ones especially, don't have much nuance to being played well. The topic that I used to focus on Sona is now something that, honestly, pertains to most (not all, but most) support picks. Too many support picks do way too little to get way too much. Nothing to aim, nothing to coordinate, nothing to properly master. It's all just targeted engage or targeted disengage. Janna's overloaded kit, Alistar's ridiculous Q > W combo invalidating the entire enchanter roster by himself (while having sustain for some reason), Soraka being defined by the one button she can press the most (before it was W and now it's E) with the least counter-play, and so on. It's a problem that's enveloping most of the support roster. Even if Riot's trying to make supports that are largely different from that style now, like Pyke and Yuumi, we still have plenty of supports that just sort of press a button and get a crap ton of mileage without much nuance to play around. If Riot doesn't actually visit these supports to do something about them, there's going to be very little room for new supports to thrive in the future unless you just "Janna" all the old supports and call that gutting a "mini-rework". Thus, even in a world where Yuumi exists and her kit's fun to play and all that jazz, her competition's way too rough. You COULD be Yuumi, or you can just mash out some shield/heal from the fog of war and not deal with actually coordinating your positioning on the map or any of that bs. And if you pick Yuumi, your whole lane's just food for catcher/vanguard supports ("glorified 1v2"). I don't want to write off Yuumi outright due to her play making (play assisting?) potential, but it doesn't look super good if other play makers have better defenses and other defensive supports can actually peel unlike her. Even Sona has better defensive capabilities than Yuumi, and has better defensive stats than Yuumi. That's actually nightmarish. We'll see how it lands when Yuumi comes out, but I have some really bad vibes about it all. She's still cool, but "cool" =/= "good".

chipndip1May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:11:31.763+0000)

I am going to have to ask you a question before giving any type of answer here.

How much do you actually play support? PLAY it. Not be ADC and "watch" it. Not be a mid laner pseudo support where what you are actually doing is blowing up the enemy and carrying the game yourself.

1 million Nami mastery

2 million + Sona mastery

D3 in seasons 7 and 8. D5 season 6.

Largely solo

Silly NeekoMay 2, 20194 votes

So in all that time, do you:

use Q and E alternating to get to lane faster for Nami?
Use E to help your ADC farm the casters under turret?
Stay slightly behind your team to ulti them into a fight for double the move speed and then proceed to knock up and slow the enemy?
Do you pick and choose between a more defencive supporty or more offensive bursty Sona?
Do you pick and choose whether to just empowered Q on Sona rather than damage reduce/move speed reduce the enemy?
Do you empower yourself with your E on Nami to make it easier to hit your Q?
Do you empower an MF's bounce shot so that it applies the procs?

Those are all forms of skill experession. It is not the "fanciest", but you can always tell when someone knows their champion because they know the nuiances with them.

Most of the supports you listed, if you go in at the wrong time... or if you mess up at all... then it could be the difference between saving an ally, saving an enemy, killing an ally, or killing an enemy. Heck, its funny when Soraka plants a E when an Alistar is going to charge in with his headbutt so that he does not get the knock up but still gets the knock back.

There is many examples of this of just how harshly even other supports think of eachother. They never have a clue what goes into playing the champion.... they just know "thats what they do".

With Yuumi, She will have her own characteristics. The bad ones will ALWAYS be attached. The good ones will probably be firing their Q, going onto an ally, moving the Q into the enemy because then it will wrap around (just an assumption of something she might be able to do). They will be popping on and off of the ally to do the autos, they will be juking shots by going onto the ally. Bad ones will have a Maokai going wiyh Twisted Advance (his targetted root where he follows the champion) and bring him right onto the ally ADC. Getting the ADC instantly stuck with a Maokai right on them. Could be good or bad depending on the situation.

There is a lot of skill expression for many champions that can be exploited and used against them if you do it right. You can even flash with a Thresh following you with the hook. You can flash after Leona gets you with her E but before she pulls herself to you. After that, you can root/stun/bind her under a tower or something.

chipndip1May 2, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:45:20.011+0000)

So in all that time, do you:

use Q and E alternating to get to lane faster for Nami?

Use E to help your ADC farm the casters under turret?

Stay slightly behind your team to ulti them into a fight for double the move speed and then proceed to knock up and slow the enemy?

Do you pick and choose between a more defencive supporty or more offensive bursty Sona?

Do you pick and choose whether to just empowered Q on Sona rather than damage reduce/move speed reduce the enemy?

Do you empower yourself with your E on Nami to make it easier to hit your Q?

Do you empower an MF's bounce shot so that it applies the procs?

Those are all forms of skill experession. It is not the "fanciest", but you can always tell when someone knows their champion because they know the nuiances with them.

Most of the supports you listed, if you go in at the wrong time... or if you mess up at all... then it could be the difference between saving an ally, saving an enemy, killing an ally, or killing an enemy. Heck, its funny when Soraka plants a E when an Alistar is going to charge in with his headbutt so that he does not get the knock up but still gets the knock back.

There is many examples of this of just how harshly even other supports think of eachother. They never have a clue what goes into playing the champion.... they just know "thats what they do".

With Yuumi, She will have her own characteristics. The bad ones will ALWAYS be attached. The good ones will probably be firing their Q, going onto an ally, moving the Q into the enemy because then it will wrap around (just an assumption of something she might be able to do). They will be popping on and off of the ally to do the autos, they will be juking shots by going onto the ally. Bad ones will have a Maokai going wiyh Twisted Advance (his targetted root where he follows the champion) and bring him right onto the ally ADC. Getting the ADC instantly stuck with a Maokai right on them. Could be good or bad depending on the situation.

There is a lot of skill expression for many champions that can be exploited and used against them if you do it right. You can even flash with a Thresh following you with the hook. You can flash after Leona gets you with her E but before she pulls herself to you. After that, you can root/stun/bind her under a tower or something.

Why are you grilling me over what I know or don't know as a support player after I told you I have 3 million mastery between two support champs? Stay on topic.
You're focusing on that skill expression bit, but the main point of what's being discussed here (one of them, anyway) is that, where Yuumi's strengths and weaknesses are clearly defined and fit certain aspects of the game on a broader scale, other support picks are very generalized in their contributions and can do a good deal of what Yuumi does and then some without having to worry as much about mechanical execution.

Look at your Ali vs. Soraka example. Soraka has E up and Ali has his combo up. If Alistar wants to win here, he has to land his combo at the right time so he won't get hit by Soraka's E. Problem is that there IS NO right time without outside interference. The second Alistar begins his dash is the second Soraka puts down E on top of her carry, and then he can't do his combo and the interaction ends with his engage on cd. All she did was press E on top of her carry. There's no nuance to it outside of timing her E to when Alistar throws his W. Likewise, Alistar winning lane against an opponent like Sona is basically an exercise of him walking up to the Sona. Likewise, Sona winning lane against someone like Janna or Karma is an exercise of pressing Q within 850 range of them until their health eventually depletes.

You can "know the match-up" and what-not. The problem is that these interactions between champions are largely one-note. I don't have issue with good or bad match-ups, but these interactions are too shallow.

Silly NeekoMay 2, 20192 votes

Grilling? No. I am saying there is things that possibly you even did not know/realize. They are parts of the kit that people tend to fail to realize is even a thing. This is all part of skill expression and champion mastery expression.
So you can pick and choose and yet I can not? I clearly stated many things that those strengths can be turned to weaknesses quite easily. Like some big muscle builder with thick arms etc, but cant scratch their own back anymore. I am just saying that Yuumi is going to be similar to Sona. So much potential of things that you can do, but everyone will only ever acknowledge her empowered Q. Same as everyone will only acknowledge Yuumi being attached to the ADC all game and just giving a power boost and doing nearly nothing else.
Yet. You can flash Ali's knock up, you can choose to go a little tankier to avoid being instantly killed, heal up, reduce the enemy ADC's damage, your ADC is there and kills enemy adc, then you go for Ali. To me, I prefer flash Qing on the enemy and then knocking them into my allies/tower. What you are refering to is their MOST USED combos or spells. That is not what defines them. That is what players who have no clue what they are talking about defines them.

chipndip1May 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T22:47:00.609+0000)

Grilling? No. I am saying there is things that possibly you even did not know/realize. They are parts of the kit that people tend to fail to realize is even a thing. This is all part of skill expression and champion mastery expression.

But why ask me if I even play support? All that was extremely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So you can pick and choose and yet I can not? I clearly stated many things that those strengths can be turned to weaknesses quite easily. Like some big muscle builder with thick arms etc, but cant scratch their own back anymore. I am just saying that Yuumi is going to be similar to Sona. So much potential of things that you can do, but everyone will only ever acknowledge her empowered Q. Same as everyone will only acknowledge Yuumi being attached to the ADC all game and just giving a power boost and doing nearly nothing else.

Well...it's my topic, so I kinda can. You can...sort of, but there's a target to aim for when making a point. This isn't necessarily about "if skill expression exists in supports and do we value it enough". This is about "Is there enough ways to play around certain picks in bot lane when they aren't gutted to hell that we justify creating more supports?" (partly, anyway).

The whole point of an RPG or RPG-like game is that one character can't do everything on their own. Each person plays a role, right? As the roster grows, the individual parts need to be more compartmentalized so that new characters can be added without being stepped on by older characters. That's really hard to do when your kit either does too much or does too much for too little.

Yet. You can flash Ali's knock up, you can choose to go a little tankier to avoid being instantly killed, heal up, reduce the enemy ADC's damage, your ADC is there and kills enemy adc, then you go for Ali. To me, I prefer flash Qing on the enemy and then knocking them into my allies/tower. What you are refering to is their MOST USED combos or spells. That is not what defines them. That is what players who have no clue what they are talking about defines them.

You can't choose to be tanky enough to not die/lose all sums to an Alistar engage + Ignite at level 3.

And yes, when your game play relies way too heavily on one more over your other moves, one move will largely define you. What do you think the Kench changes were for? Why do you think Janna's E is on a 17 second cd now? You gotta really think the topic over before it comes together.

Silly NeekoMay 3, 20192 votes

Why did i ask? You answered my question. You do not play the other supports at all and yet you pass judgement only because you play against it pretty much. You play 2 champions heavily, one having only 1 skill shot and yet lots of various ways to play her, and another that has lots of utility when used correctly and can easily outplay the other champions/lessen their impact but you sum them up similar to someone who never plays support would. You play 2 champions near exclusively it seems and that is your choice. I choose to play EVERY support and learn their nuiances that way I do not sound ignorant when I am talking about the role as a whole.

In an RPG, one role almost always is dominant depending on what it is. Monster raiding? Who needs a tank when you can deal enough damage to out heal. Pvp? Who needs a damage dealer when you just never die AND deal damage. One role always dominates. League? Probably the most balanced in that aspect that nothing is truely ever actually stronger unless YOU are stronger as a player. At which point, Soraka beats Zed, Thresh beats Yasuo, etc. Unless they know very well what they are doing and how to do it. Are you going to make every enchanter's abilities a skill shot? Better make auto attacks a skill shot too. At that point it becomes a shooter game however and not an RPG. I fail to see the point of your post apart from you liking Yuumi's design because you can not tell me what it is you are actually meaning. Because you do not know what you are actually meaning.

Except for if you put any thought into it, then it is NOT how they are defined. That is what is defined what they do. Ali is a tank that hard engages with an aoe knock up that if done right nullifies the CC of one ability and in favor of keeping the enemy in place rather than displacing. That engage can be used for escapes, or just a gap closer if used on minions instead. Also with coordination it can be used for sending allies like Lee Sin into the enemy team to engage and then following up after that. Sure, quite a bit of that is game knowledge and is not "able to be done all the time any time" but that is still what Alistar is. The same can be said about most every champ and honestly most of the stuff is just for show anyways.

ZephyrDrakeMay 2, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Why are you grilling me over what I know or don't know as a support player after I told you I have 3 million mastery between two support champs? Stay on topic.

You're focusing on that skill expression bit, but the main point of what's being discussed here (one of them, anyway) is that, where Yuumi's strengths and weaknesses are clearly defined and fit certain aspects of the game on a broader scale, other support picks are very generalized in their contributions and can do a good deal of what Yuumi does and then some without having to worry as much about mechanical execution.

Look at your Ali vs. Soraka example. Soraka has E up and Ali has his combo up. If Alistar wants to win here, he has to land his combo at the right time so he won't get hit by Soraka's E. Problem is that there IS NO right time without outside interference. The second Alistar begins his dash is the second Soraka puts down E on top of her carry, and then he can't do his combo and the interaction ends with his engage on cd. All she did was press E on top of her carry. There's no nuance to it outside of timing her E to when Alistar throws his W. Likewise, Alistar winning lane against an opponent like Sona is basically an exercise of him walking up to the Sona. Likewise, Sona winning lane against someone like Janna or Karma is an exercise of pressing Q within 850 range of them until their health eventually depletes.

You can "know the match-up" and what-not. The problem is that these interactions between champions are largely one-note. I don't have issue with good or bad match-ups, but these interactions are too shallow.

Tldr "if the champion isn't some massive flashy thing then It's bad for the game"

You do know that in the soraka vs Ali thing you can also just flash pulv with Ali right? Skill expression exist with every single champion you not wanting to admit it because "its not flashy" or whatever is completely pointless. A sona needs to know when it's the right time to go in, when it's better to use the each of the "enhanced" autos, when it's the right time to use the ult. Janna has to know when to use her shield effectively, when it's the right time to use her W how long to hold Q, when to ult at the right moment. Yes you can just mindlessly press E on Janna and do ok but its vastly different to see a Janna that all she does is shield vs one who uses her abilities at the right moment. It's not flashy but it is there. Knowing how to use your skills effectively vs whoever you are facing is skill expression. Knowing that certain champions can deal with your main strategy and how you handle those situations is a form of skill expression. Could be as little as "wait out the skill/bait it out" or it could be playing mind games or coming from a different angle.

Every single time I hear "X champion has next to no skill expression" or similar things I just laugh since it shows how close minded people are.

chipndip1May 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Tldr "if the champion isn't some massive flashy thing then It's bad for the game"

Where did I say that?

I don't see where Nami's some super flashy play maker, or where Braum is, but there's a reason I didn't call on those champs and I never ever do. However, let's hash this out a bit.

Excluding flash plays, everything you're talking about is more along the lines of knowledge over skill. There's no real meaningful interaction between me and the opponent if I just "know to shield their attack on time" or "know to polymorph them" and that's a problem that we've continually allowed to fester for years. Should EVERYONE be firing skill shots like it's laser tag? No. However, plenty of supports, especially the older ones (which consequently encompasses most enchanters), have way too little for opponents to work around to create a meaningful interaction. The only hope they have is if someone else walks into their cds before they do.

Like, here's a mental exercise. All this romanticization about Sona and Janna and all that, think of it like this: For every action an enchanter like them have, what is the appropriate response for an enemy responding to it? If there is none, or if the answer is "Just don't bother until it's on cd", then you'll hopefully realize what I'm getting at. The problem is extremes of this logic where we glorify knowledge expression because we're too afraid to admit that supports don't offer much variance in their game play, which means too many interactions are decided just by virtue of existing.

Josh SandMay 2, 20192 votes

A lot of these examples are cases involving more game knowledge than skill expression.

A Lulu player with game knowledge knows to buffer polymorph on a LeBlanc about to dive your carry.

A Lee Sin with high skill in his champion is able to ward jump past you and flash kick you into the enemy team.

An Azir player with a high level of skill can pull off a Shurima Shuffle every time.

The case with Lulu requires game knowledge on when to use her spell, while the Lee Sin and Azir need the same level of timing knowledge, in addition to having the mechanical expertise at chaining a number of spells in precise directions, in order to execute their play successfully.

There are definitely differences in knowledge expression for most supports, but the "skill" portion ends with their ability to time a single point and click.

Huge difference between the two

Silly NeekoMay 2, 20192 votes

So raise the skill cap for support players is what you are saying.

Ok, heres an example here, ADCs right click only. Tops only split push. Junglers either always gank or never gank while trying for objectives sometimes. Mid laners just build damage and if they cant burst then they are useless. Supports are useless and cant do anything unless its point and click.

There we go. Summed up all of league for you by your standards. Nobody is left out. Feel free to explain anything that is wrong with my generalizations on ALL of the roles.

I catered this using the logic that you are trying to show here.

chipndip1May 2, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-02T23:34:56.600+0000)

So raise the skill cap for support players is what you are saying.

Not the cap. The floor. Or rather, flesh out the kits of the more 1-note supports so there's more going on to the lane than just "I can't walk up because X is my opponent".

Ok, heres an example here, ADCs right click only. Tops only split push. Junglers either always gank or never gank while trying for objectives sometimes. Mid laners just build damage and if they cant burst then they are useless. Supports are useless and cant do anything unless its point and click.

There we go. Summed up all of league for you by your standards. Nobody is left out. Feel free to explain anything that is wrong with my generalizations on ALL of the roles.

Marksmen: I absolutely hate marksman designs in this game and that's another essay for another day, but you're unironically right in the fact that they rely too much on unavoidable, ranged damage that amps up in intensity and frequency over the course of the game.

Tops: There's different types of top laners that do different things. They don't all split push, and just because you split push doesn't mean your core game play is as simply as most supports.

JGs: Same as tops. There's wildly different types of play styles that incorporate different patterns for ganking, clearing jg, as well as behaviors when team fighting starts, and all of these things are still more multi-faceted than most supports.

Mid: You're trying too hard.

Support: Aren't useless, and not all of them are low-variance, 1-trick pony type champions.

So you unironically got the marksman one and missed the others by a mile. Assuming your goal was to emulate my opinions on the matter.

Silly NeekoMay 3, 20191 votes

This reply was not to you. But if you insist....

The only top laners who dont end up being more useful split pushing are the ones who are full on tanks with no damage. If the top has to be in the team fight, then your entire team comp is revolving around it (for example malphite for a Yasuo) or they are a champion that works best in team fights (Neeko). If that combo does not work well enough, you lose anyways. Otherwise, that top laner is pretty much able to 1v3 already and just needs a little distraction to kill the rest. So no, not really. How most top laners play atm and the ones they play.... pretty much they just split, or they SHOULD just split.

Junglers? Explain how im wrong in either they are either gank or farm oriented. Even think back to Devourer period. They limited afk farming to make it so that when you DO afk farm.... it is not rewarded more than gank only. Kayn is an example of someone who is a gank only oriented person. Nocturne as well. Many of them would NOT be able to take out towers themselves, and it is a toss up of whos more ahead in gold if they end up fighting eachother most of the time. What skill expression does Nocturne have? Apart from timing. There is VERY few champions in the game that they can say they have more than just timing on their side for their champion.

Mid? Ask a mid laner. Ive talked to several and the only ones who do not say that are the ones who play things like Anivia where it is more about control and poke rather than burst...which what mid laner wants to play that? Sheesh. (That last bit seems to be the opinion of most players). If something isnt able to be bursted into oblivion? Mid laners: nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. A vast majority of them are the ones that are wanting nerfs to hit champions as long as its not their own!

You are right, supports are not useless. However that is what the general public thinks. That they are brain dead and useless and have no reason to have a role in general. The reason why is because people do not bother playing the champions they are complaining about. When they do, they play it for maybe 10 games and consider themselves an expert.

Josh SandMay 3, 20193 votes

This guy is either a troll or hes too concerned about feeling like hes right, moreso than actually making any coherent points.

Its like trying to explain chess to someone who barely has a grasp on tic tac toe

MaisanaiMay 2, 20191 votes

look at their match history, lots of name and sona. Not that some of these points aren't questionable lol

Silly NeekoMay 2, 20192 votes

I do not look at match history. Think of it like a resume.... if they want to show it, they will. You can ask for it, but if they dont want to then usually you have an answer already.

chipndip1May 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

look at their match history, lots of name and sona. Not that some of these points aren't questionable lol

What's questionable?

MaisanaiMay 3, 20191 votes

your post really makes it sound like you don't think any supports have skill expression, and that Yuumi is somehow unique in having it. She might be raising the bar, and that's fine, but pretty much all supports require skill to play them well. Just like any other champ.

chipndip1May 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

your post really makes it sound like you don't think any supports have skill expression, and that Yuumi is somehow unique in having it. She might be raising the bar, and that's fine, but pretty much all supports require skill to play them well. Just like any other champ.

I made a post to point out a problem. The supports that don't exhibit this problem aren't apart of this post. That includes picks like Nami, Thresh, Braum, Pyke, and Morg.

Newer support designs are trending in a more positive direction. My issue comes from the older ones.

Chub RubMay 4, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2yhHpUFn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-02T21:11:31.763+0000)

I am going to have to ask you a question before giving any type of answer here.

How much do you actually play support? PLAY it. Not be ADC and "watch" it. Not be a mid laner pseudo support where what you are actually doing is blowing up the enemy and carrying the game yourself.

Thank you for this lmao. I feel support might be the "easiest" role, but there's a lot more there as one's skill improves besides "overloaded kits and combos" , like cooldowns, warding WELL and actually peeling well lol

I've accepted that Yuumi isnt going to be a peel support but that's why she's so niche.

Silly NeekoMay 4, 20191 votes

Easiest? Ehh. Actually the two roles that are felt the hardest if the player is bad (not behind, but bad. There is a major difference) is Jungle and Support.

Reason why? If one of the other roles are not able to 1v5 (often the case) the jungler carries the lane if they are able. You can definately tell when someone is a GOOD jungler. Support is the same. Fed Zed? Lock him down. Low on hp? Theres some heals. Need that engage? I gotcha. Theres a Rammus chasing? Ill slow him. Got morg bound? Theres an item for that, ill get it. Need that shot taken? Supports got your back.

Supports are a mix of being the most valuable and least valuable player on the team. Even if they die, that does not stop you from getting tower or baron as long as the enemy died too. Supports job is make sure the enemy dies before, or along with you dieing. When the enemy assassin prioritizes the support over the ADC because that support has done all the work in team fights and needs to be taken out first? Thats when you know you did your job right.

But yeah, same as with any lane.... just because you main one or two champions in that lane does not mean you actually know the other champions either. So trying to pass judgement on them is not going to go so well.

As for Yuumi? Ive seen some videos. Her ratio for giving attack or ability power is redicuious. 21% at max rank W for the conversion Ratio currently.

Part 1 of 2: Yuumi's reveal highlights massive issues with the support roster

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