Weekly reminder that Riot removed ARAM bans even if they are deeply missed.

PaffWasTaken·May 20, 2019·25 votes·8,570 views

Doing this one a day too late (I blame the finals and my college for whipping to death computer science students), but I won't forget to make this weekly post. I also hope that, in a similar way, people won't forget the high amount of satisfaction bans brought to frequent ARAM players and those who play it for what it is.

I also get a lot of complain each week, mainly from people trying to argue with me using the same unviable reasons and arguments over and over again to convince me that bans are the spawn of Satan and that ARAM accounts are just a myth and that its just a coincidence if they are commenting on a smurf. This is why I won't argue that the bans are good and almost necessary this week: since people are against this opinion just for the sake of being against it.

Finally, someone pointed out last week that I should implement a Poll on the thread, which is clever since a lot of people just yeeted the "UPVATE" and "DOWNVATE" buttons without real purpose. So, yeah, let's go for another week of ban-less and sad ARAM and see you all on the freezing cold Howling Abyss!

33 Comments

SyrileMay 21, 201911 votes

Yeah.. for those that complain its "called all random all mid" they need to actually play ARAM. I played 13 consecutive games with a Malphite in them. 9 Consecutive games with a Fiddlesticks. 7 games with a Sona, a skip, then 8 games with a Sona. 6 games with Lux, skip, 8 games with Lux. Upteenmillion games with Teemo or Shaco in them.

You get 10 champions between two teams. 2 re-rolls, and people who dodge when they do not get a broken champion or when your allies refuse to trade you a champion you want.

The consistency in which the most obnoxious champions are in the game proves the "random" part of it is nonsense.

The only possible way this is random is to enable all champions. Until this is done (which I understand is for money, so I am fine with them not doing this), it will never be truly All Random. Which means, bans are just fine.

The "balance" changes are made by the "balance" team that believes Riven and Vayne are perfectly balanced and that Akali's rework was good for the game. Soo... yeah? No faith in them.

Pika FoxMay 21, 20192 votes

This is a stupid notion.

There are 10 players per game. 2 RRs per person. 30 champions total possible per game. 144 champions total.

If you assume there are even 10 S tier champions, your chances of getting an S tier champ is 3/14.4 per person, so youre likely to see 2 per game. EVEN IF you ban all the S tier champs, then A tier is the new S. Unlocking all champs doesnt change anything, nor do bans.

SyrileMay 21, 20198 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xFjqtlk,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-21T03:27:22.792+0000)

This is a stupid notion.

There are 10 players per game. 2 RRs per person. 30 champions total possible per game. 144 champions total.

If you assume there are even 10 S tier champions, your chances of getting an S tier champ is 3/14.4 per person, so youre likely to see 2 per game. EVEN IF you ban all the S tier champs, then A tier is the new S. Unlocking all champs doesnt change anything, nor do bans.

You called something stupid then used math to prove it is right? So, say you have only the broken champions purchased. Does that not increase those odds further? Also, "2 RRs" are not used every game and do not recover 2/game so the math is flawed.

Furthermore, with the "balance" team touching them, the champions at the top have changed. There used to be less champions at S+ tier, but now there are around 9. The lower the tier goes (except the very last tier) the less the gap is and the more champions fit into that tier. Thus, the game is more balanced and thus more healthy.

Nothing about your attempt to insult me makes any sense.

Pika FoxMay 21, 20191 votes

It increasing the odds further is mostly irrelevant if the odds with all unlocked are similar, not to mention it just adjusts 1 persons pool, not all 10. Ontop of that, aram accounts are exceptionally rare, youll likely only see one in 50+ games. Almost every "aram account" you see is just someone that used rerolls.

You get 1 reroll essentially every game you play, and youre unlikely to use both given how rerolls work, and given you can trade with team mates with them rerolling for you.

SyrileMay 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xFjqtlk,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-21T14:24:12.288+0000)

It increasing the odds further is mostly irrelevant if the odds with all unlocked are similar, not to mention it just adjusts 1 persons pool, not all 10. Ontop of that, aram accounts are exceptionally rare, youll likely only see one in 50+ games. Almost every "aram account" you see is just someone that used rerolls.

You get 1 reroll essentially every game you play, and youre unlikely to use both given how rerolls work, and given you can trade with team mates with them rerolling for you.

Basically, you reiterated your same statement despite the fact that I countered everything you already said? Yeah... I think we are done here.

Pika FoxMay 22, 20191 votes

Youve made 0 valid points.

Aram only accounts havnt been an issue nor existed for years. Theyre literally not a problem. They dont exist.

Unlocking all champions will do nothing.

Bans do nothing other than remove champions from the game. The As will just become the new S+s that no one can touch. Nothings changed.

Removing rerolls would solve a lot of the issue..... but make games feel like garbage getting more champions you dont want to play. So you solve the issue by making the game worse.

Bans make the game worse, unlocking all champions doesnt do much nor helps a ton other than forcing players who dont own champions to play champions they have no skill with and no way to practice as they do not own said champion, removing rerolls makes the experience worse. None of these 3 are valid options.

SyrileMay 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xFjqtlk,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-22T01:30:20.789+0000)

Youve made 0 valid points.

Aram only accounts havnt been an issue nor existed for years. Theyre literally not a problem. They dont exist.

Unlocking all champions will do nothing.

Bans do nothing other than remove champions from the game. The As will just become the new S+s that no one can touch. Nothings changed.

Removing rerolls would solve a lot of the issue..... but make games feel like garbage getting more champions you dont want to play. So you solve the issue by making the game worse.

Bans make the game worse, unlocking all champions doesnt do much nor helps a ton other than forcing players who dont own champions to play champions they have no skill with and no way to practice as they do not own said champion, removing rerolls makes the experience worse. None of these 3 are valid options.

You can claim they have no validity, but that does not make it so. I explicitly explained how knocking out the worst of the characters levels the playing field because the lower tiered champions are more closely balanced and there are more of those, thus, giving less incentive to re-roll for them and trade around or dodge for them. You not only did not address this but just reiterated your "points."

If you believe ARAM accounts do not exist then you are really mistaken... but that becomes apparent with every post.

Nothing said here is anything different than what I disproved. Simple math, that you even used, explained why you are wrong.

If you want a perfectly random experience, like you are claiming, you would not have a problem with removing re-rolls and unlocking all champions. However, what you are wanting here is a game that is worse than either of those.

Pika FoxMay 22, 20191 votes

Lower tiered champions are NOT more closely balanced than top tier. Thats not how they work. Removing S+ champs just makes the As the new S+s.

And again, no, there are no aram accounts. The scary boogyman people like to claim is in every game no longer exists. Its not a thing.

SyrileMay 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xFjqtlk,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-22T13:08:04.904+0000)

Lower tiered champions are NOT more closely balanced than top tier. Thats not how they work. Removing S+ champs just makes the As the new S+s.

And again, no, there are no aram accounts. The scary boogyman people like to claim is in every game no longer exists. Its not a thing.

Except they are. That is why there are so many in the lower tiers together. They are closer in balance than the difference between an entire tier difference. This is really quite impossible to do deny?

And yeah... no. I know people who have them? But even if if you do not count them, a lot of people only play ARAM and a lot of people do not have anywhere near all of the champions. This changes the math no matter how much you want to deny it.

Everything I said is true. It is easy to figure out, just go into the game and play it. How about the fact that certain champions have a 12% play rate and some have a 1.1% playrate in a game that is "All Random?" Impossible to be random when the stats are like that, eh?

Pika FoxMay 22, 20191 votes

Yeah, no. Its clear you dont know how tier lists work. Removing champions from the game changes a lot on how tier lists work, given specific archtypes are S+ moreso than others, so those who they counter would rise up a lot more.

Thats literally not what an aram account is. Unless youre claiming my account is an aram account because i primarily play aram over SR or TT. An aram account is just an account with only A+ and above champions on it. Those rarely exist, if at all, anymore, and wouldnt skew the numbers much. And even if they did, and they won games because of it, they would only ever face other aram accounts, meaning for you its irrelevent and a non issue because matchmaking is a thing.

How about you learn what a "reroll" is. Or why its called "all random" in the first place. Heres a hint "has nothing to do with pure randomness or having all champions".

SyrileMay 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xFjqtlk,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-22T19:27:45.552+0000)

Yeah, no. Its clear you dont know how tier lists work. Removing champions from the game changes a lot on how tier lists work, given specific archtypes are S+ moreso than others, so those who they counter would rise up a lot more.

Thats literally not what an aram account is. Unless youre claiming my account is an aram account because i primarily play aram over SR or TT. An aram account is just an account with only A+ and above champions on it. Those rarely exist, if at all, anymore, and wouldnt skew the numbers much. And even if they did, and they won games because of it, they would only ever face other aram accounts, meaning for you its irrelevent and a non issue because matchmaking is a thing.

How about you learn what a "reroll" is. Or why its called "all random" in the first place. Heres a hint "has nothing to do with pure randomness or having all champions".

At this point, despite being confronted with the clear math, clear description, you are now just attacking me by saying /I/ do not understand? Everything you have said here is nothing more than "you do not understand." Yet, I have provided very clear explanations with logic that explains away every claim you have made.

If your intent is just to constantly hurl that insult out, I have nothing more to say here.

Pika FoxMay 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

At this point, despite being confronted with the clear math, clear description, you are now just attacking me by saying /I/ do not understand? Everything you have said here is nothing more than "you do not understand." Yet, I have provided very clear explanations with logic that explains away every claim you have made.

If your intent is just to constantly hurl that insult out, I have nothing more to say here.

I dont get whats so hard to comprehend about you not providing anything of use.

Again, rerolls exist because players dont like getting total trash comps. Yes, this destroys a lot of the randomness, but it is a far greater improvement because it gives players agency over their team to a limited degree and makes the game mode enjoyable.

BECAUSE of rerolls, which are a clear improvement to the game, youre going to see better champions more frequently, and top tier champs on the scale of ~1/game at minimum.

Aram accounts DO NOT EXIST. Period. They died out years ago, and even if they were a constant thing, they would be at an MMR higher than your own. You literally would never see them anyway, and theyd just be playing other aram accounts.

And finally, Removing all S+ champions does not "level the playingfield". The As move up, and any champion in particular the poke champs shut down now rule the field, regardless of tier, and likely become the new S+s, such as mundo. You get the literal same exact problem due to the nature of how ARAM works and how champions are not balanced for ARAM.

The solution is clear; balance champions for ARAM specifically. Not complicated.

SyrileMay 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2xFjqtlk,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T00:26:32.488+0000)

I dont get whats so hard to comprehend about you not providing anything of use.

Again, rerolls exist because players dont like getting total trash comps. Yes, this destroys a lot of the randomness, but it is a far greater improvement because it gives players agency over their team to a limited degree and makes the game mode enjoyable.

BECAUSE of rerolls, which are a clear improvement to the game, youre going to see better champions more frequently, and top tier champs on the scale of ~1/game at minimum.

Aram accounts DO NOT EXIST. Period. They died out years ago, and even if they were a constant thing, they would be at an MMR higher than your own. You literally would never see them anyway, and theyd just be playing other aram accounts.

And finally, Removing all S+ champions does not "level the playingfield". The As move up, and any champion in particular the poke champs shut down now rule the field, regardless of tier, and likely become the new S+s, such as mundo. You get the literal same exact problem due to the nature of how ARAM works and how champions are not balanced for ARAM.

The solution is clear; balance champions for ARAM specifically. Not complicated.

Again, you reiterate things I have already disproved. You do not understand the tier system at all based on your explanation. Stating ARAM accounts do not exist, without any possible way of knowing is a false claim. In fact, Riot explicitly proved the opposite when they expanded the free champion pool, citing this as a reason.

At this point, I am finished. You are reiterating things that are demonstrably false and that I have already disproved.

ArtumisPrimeMay 25, 20191 votes

That would be the case if everyone had all champions unlocked, and if certain champions didn't have a higher weight to the roll (which I cannot prove, but fully believe to be true.) And, yes. Having all champions unlocked DOES change this. If a person has 40 champions --including free week rotations-- instead of 144, whilst having all 10 of those mentioned tier S champions, then that makes it a 1/4 chance of getting an S tier champion, ignoring my mention of roll weighting above.

It's the last bit with which I take real issue though. By the logic of "if you ban S tier champions, then A tier becomes the new S" why should RIOT even attempt to balance any game mode? This will be the case with patches, bans, meta shifts, item changes, etc. It is a terrible argument IMO.

The other way of looking at this is that there are two possibilities. Either RIOT needs to continue to balance ARAM (or ignore it as they did for so long) or they need to give the community the ability to moderate which champions they don't wish to see via bans. Because if RIOT slacks, then we end up with abominations like 9.9 Aatrox during his 10% buffs in ARAM.

mærkMay 20, 20194 votes

First off, it wasn't ARAM you played it was Butcher's Bridge an event for Gangplank... Secondly, it's called All Random All Mid, not Almost Random AhwhatgamemodeisthisagainNOTsummonersrift Mid.

PaffWasTakenMay 20, 201912 votes

First off, it wasn't ARAM you played it was Butcher's Bridge

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/489/nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.jpg

mærkMay 20, 20193 votes

If you didn't get my post, you probably didn't even know the bans in ARAM or BUTCHER'S BRIDGE was an event only thing. Not permanent...

Do you comprende now senor ?

TL;DR: Go read the patch notes...

SaezioMay 21, 20197 votes

They said they would keep them if they were deemed positive. Some people disagree with their removal.

Riot need to either A) enable all champs B) allow people to limit their champ pools as they wish so that owning champs isn't a negative impact C) if those can't be made, bans are only fair against aram-accounts

P.S. It's also not called ORAM, Owned Random All Mid

SaevumMay 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

P.S. It's also not called ORAM, Owned Random All Mid

You just /thread any opposing dumbfuk out there. Good job.

SaezioMay 21, 20191 votes

Sorry if this sounds mean but stupid reasoning needs stupid comebacks. Ain't gonna waste actual arguments on that kind of logic.

Pika FoxMay 21, 20192 votes

All Random refers to everyone hitting the random button back when the game mode was first made in custom matches, which randoms between all champions owned. This isnt a valid argument or counterpoint, it just shows a lack of knowledge on how the game mode started.

SaevumMay 21, 20196 votes

Nice. Another Kai Guy.

But obsessed with a lackluster of points of view. And, same as kai, since you missed the point: We need true RNG on ARAM. We are usually against RNG in this game, but for aram, we want it.

Pika FoxMay 21, 20191 votes

And you already have it. Simply by there being 2 rerolls your chances of seeing a lux/sona/ziggs every game even with all champs unlocked is likely over 50% per game.

Pika FoxMay 21, 20192 votes

ARAM accounts havnt been a real issue for years. The boogman aram account doesnt exist anymore.

IainG10May 21, 20191 votes

It was a trial, like several other changes (the range cap on full-dmg poke, a few items and the Summoner Spell that was like Barrier and Flash at the same time, whose name I have forgotten), and whilst some of those things vanished, others have stayed.

Looks like someone didn't fully read the patch notes....

BackdoorPrincessMay 21, 20192 votes

They could also do away with champion weighting in the mode, since you only see the same 30 champs the way it is. As someone who owns every champ, and has a ridiculous amount of arams played, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've gotten a few of the less popular champs this year, whereas I can get Ziggs/Lux/Nid/Zil several times a day. As has been suggested before, unlock all champs during it, but only earn mastery points/chests for the ones that you own, but keep the rerolls limited by how many champs you own still, but to a lesser extent. This whole being able to hotswap any rolls that your team threw up is really cool, but also super stifling if every game people are throwing up 1-2 to get workable comps.

The poke nerf wasn't really needed since poke champs lose hard to tanks/divers/bruisers in it after the first 8 or so minutes, the faster minion spawning is a nice touch and could def do with more supers spawning after a specific minute mark, but I think the bans need to be either old draft based where each team takes a turn banning one at a time for 3 each (if all champs are unlocked) or 5 if it stays with current champ pool.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I do see a hell of a lot of aram specific accounts (as it's the gamemode I primarily play anymore), and it's super frustrating seeing them running Kai/Lux/Jinx every game when I still get a solid amount of tanks in my rolls

ThiadelMay 21, 20192 votes

I swear I played Nami at least ten times yesterday in ARAM. I love the fish, as I have level 7, but I'm getting bored with the algorithm to the point that I'm playing any champion I don't normally play, even if I know that I absolutely suck as that champion. As much as Riot likes to tout "All Mid, All Random," the game mode is most certainly not random as I have all but ten of the champions.

Sky CardisMay 21, 20192 votes

Never did ARAM when it had bans...a shame... I main as Support... you KNOW there is a problem if I am first time Kai or Varus in ARAM and just dominating the game...and everytime I end up with them I continue dominating in ARAM. That's when you know a Champ either needs nerfed OR just not be in ARAM XD I used Varus and Kai because were were my most recently examples.

Surprisingly even though I suck as JG...I do extremely well as Warwick and Evelynn in ARAM also.

PaffWasTakenMay 21, 20192 votes

This is exactly why ARAM is enjoyable and why it needs bans. There is nothing wrong with enjoying playing a champion in ARAM, Op or not; the point of the gamemode is playing things that you usually don't, like you playing champs from roles that you don't specificaly perform well in, the enjoyability from it also comes from the meta in the usual and more popular ranked gamemode who encourages people to have a very narrow array of pocket picks.

But, just as you said, certain champions utterly crushes anyone in most cases in ARAM and this, without needing particular knowledge of the champion. There's nothing wrong in that kind of situation happening once in a while (it's bound to happen in a random game mode), but what is wrong is that those kind of picks are waaaaay too frequent and it is way too easy to abuse the system to make those even more frequents (Some champions literally have 10x the pickrate of some others in this gamemode, while they are supposed to differ of about 5% pickrate or so maximum). Bans brought both the opportunity to keep champions you hate from your games and make comps less similar between each games by keeping way too frequent picks gated from getting used again.

The world would be a far better place if everyone were self-aware of their skills like you do and just admitted that there IS a major problem in ARAM that no "balance" change can fix.

IainG10May 21, 20192 votes

Weekly 'Yes' vote and Upvate given

Akali is SO HOTMay 22, 20192 votes

What are you talking about op having Lux, Ziggs, Veigar, Xerath, Sona, etc. in every single game is super awesome and fun.

Sky CardisMay 22, 20192 votes

Yeah, always fun being one of the broken champ, or frustration dealing with a team of broken champs. Shame this game isn't fun/rewarding when its a one sided shit show.

Mr DallowayMay 22, 20191 votes

I still think Riot should fire the person who thought it would be a good idea to trial ARAM bans.