There is no way to call the IE change a buff to Yasuo.

Irelia Bot·Jun 2, 2018·31 votes·12,565 views

He pays 500 more gold and his breaking point for when he starts doing more damage to an enemy compared to old IE is ~~175.44~~ 166.666 armor or more.

This is because he is limited to 100% crit chance and 90% crit damage meaning he does not get the use out of the 60% crit chance being doubled to 120% it is still limited to 100%. If he did get 120% then it would be closer to the 83.33 like everyone else who gets IE + Zeal.

Yasuo actually got screwed by this change.

Not a fan of him just giving the numbers.

It is comparably bad to when riot nerfed the hell out of trinity for most of season 3 making Irelia be around a 44% to 46% win rate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qoDNOpodHbYjrrS6kpan1Y8YthpmaOIuPMpvilpOq9g/edit?usp=sharing

Edit: due to a miss calculation in the crit damage I used 2.4 and 1.9 for old VS new instead of the proper 2.25 and 1.8. This has been corrected in the spreadsheet.

The calculation has the armor breaking point at 166.666 for when new IE becomes better.

102 Comments

Akali is SO HOTJun 2, 201815 votes

He'll always be unbeatable cancer to players who don't wanna learn how to play the game though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TheSingularityJun 2, 20184 votes

Given item 3046 allows him to out duel just about every melee in the game. What is there to learn?

I can deal with a yasuo as vel'koz depending on matchmaking, doubt I'd beat anything over plat period, not just yasuos.

But champions who out duel him early immediately start losing the moment he buys item 3046 . It's a stat check, not a skill contest. There's no amount of thinking or learning that makes 2 smaller than 1 numerically. Just as there's no thinking or learning to beat a stat check. You simply must have a better stat check.

charge attackJun 2, 20188 votes

Actual duelists will shit on Yasuo, especially if you dodge a single Q.

You ever seen Yasuo vs Udyr for example? It’s not pretty for the Yas.

Champs like Jax/Yi/Trynd will outduel the shit out of Yas.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 2, 20183 votes

Fiora Renekton Camille Kled Riven Darius Tryndamere , took me two seconds to name 7 champions that shit on him without needing skill.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20181 votes

Riven needs skill. So does Camille.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 2, 20182 votes

i think he mean to win the matchup.

And we could argue for Riven (in melee matchup).

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20181 votes

Well, for the specific Yasuo Vs. RIven situation, Riven would definitely need skill.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 2, 20181 votes

I meant in terms of a 1v1, I would argue Camille is not hard, I bought her because i wanted to main her (she was boring IMO so I didn't) and she is not hard, there are basic combos such as the tactical sweep + hook shot etc but those are easy as well. As much as I hate Riven and think she is a skill less piece of shit champion, I do admit she needs some mastery but vs an average Yasuo she can shit on him.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20182 votes

There are no "average" Yasuo's, they all either feed their ass off or go 12/2.

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 2, 20187 votes

Shocked the boards isn't filled with love for this patch, considering Yas is so terrible he needed a hotfix.

HügöJun 2, 20183 votes

Implying that he was even hotfix worthy which he wasn't.

LeonerdoJun 2, 20187 votes

As if people care about how strong Yasuo actually is. Even in Diamond where Yasuo has almost never been above 50% winrate, he has continued to maintain a 30%+ banrate.

It bugs me too, but even now while he's in the trash, people will continue to hate on Yasuo. And they will be pissed when he inevitably gets buffed next patch.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20185 votes

He's banned because he's not fun to play against. His kit is just frustrating in so many ways, particularly his ability to make any ranged character useless for 4 seconds.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and even a bad Yasuo can press W at the right time sometimes to fuck over your day.

LeonerdoJun 2, 20184 votes

You are proving my point. Most people on these boards don't really care about champion balance unless their main is weak or someone is way overpowered. Aside from that people just complain about the same shit (Yasuo, ADCs, matchmaking, towers, etc.)

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20184 votes

That's not what I said at all.

When a champion has a toxic ability that is impossible to balance (or at least riot refuses to make ANY changes to) you have an champion that is very little fun to play against. He could have the worst "stats" in the game but his crit passive, his shield passive, and his windwall are all extremely unfun to play against and Riot has never backed down on at least 2 of these abilities.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 2, 20181 votes

Aren't their like, 30 different annoying champs in the game, I never understood why Yasuo gets special hate treatment

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20182 votes

Yasuo is one of the champs that is both unfun to play against, frustrating to deal with, and can 100-0 you if he's even remotely ahead. I agree that there are plenty of other champions who are annoying, like Darius or Garen, but those champions don't also have the same kind of history and memorable fan base.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 2, 20181 votes

I think it is partly the fan base, good point.

hhaavviikkJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Aren't their like, 30 different annoying champs in the game, I never understood why Yasuo gets special hate treatment

because he's got an absurd pick rate

Hong Kong AnnieJun 2, 20183 votes

No Yasou just has a toxic kit that isn't fun to play against, and he needs a rework to fix that. It's like pre rework Evelynn and Yorick if they were ever even remotely strong they were completely unfun to play against, so they were nerfed and left in the dirt until a rework came around.

LeonerdoJun 2, 20181 votes

You are proving my point... don't really care about champion balance

Hong Kong AnnieJun 2, 20183 votes

No some kits are just fundamentally unblance-able and yasuo is one of them.

ThatGuySnugglesJun 2, 20185 votes

https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=A-lJl7tHyc8&feature=share Watch this and tell me it isn't broken. Even if there are tanks who can deal with his damage yasuo has increddible mobility and he can simply dive the squishy members of the enmy team who are most likely most of their dmg and kill them almost immediately. And before you tell me about the whole 100% crit chance cap thing, the reason IE is gonna be so strong on him now is because of the 15% tru dmg it gives now not the crit.Because it turns 15% of crit dmg into tru dmg it allows for an extra 15% crit to come in to fill the amount that was converted into tru dmg. In that video he has 40% tru dmg, if he had 100% crit idk if he achieved it in the video or not, then it would be like having 115% crit because of the 15% convertedd into tru dmg.

Akali is SO HOTJun 2, 201823 votes

>No tanks >No reliable CC >All squishy champions >?????

Of course he's gonna steamroll that team. Looks like that was on last PBE cycle when IE was at 20% true damage as well. Not to mention that it's PBE and the matchmaking isn't remotely fair.

ThatGuySnugglesJun 2, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-06-02T01:29:21.633+0000)

>No tanks >No reliable CC >All squishy champions >?????

Of course he's gonna steamroll that team. Looks like that was on last PBE cycle when IE was at 20% true damage as well. Not to mention that it's PBE and the matchmaking isn't remotely fair.

thats why i said if there is a tank he would still be able to do alot, despite the fact that he still basically gets 15% extra dmg

Akali is SO HOTJun 2, 20189 votes

I don't think you've ever played Yasuo against a team with a competent tank tank before. If in that video he still steamrolled that team with 2 CC tanks on it, then maybe you could have an argument, but showing a clickbait video of Yasuo steamrolling a terribad team comp on PBE is not proof for anything. You are also completely ignoring the fact that Yasuo's crits do less damage to begin with and IE losing the +50% modifier for true damage is still a big nerf against squishy targets and only a buff against tanks once late game rolls around.

Irelia BotJun 2, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T01:36:52.064+0000)

I don't think you've ever played Yasuo against a team with a competent tank tank before. If in that video he still steamrolled that team with 2 CC tanks on it, then maybe you could have an argument, but showing a clickbait video of Yasuo steamrolling a terribad team comb on PBE is not proof for anything. You are also completely ignoring the fact that Yasuo's crits do less damage to begin with and IE losing the +50% modifier for true damage is still a big nerf against squishy targets and only a buff against tanks once late game rolls around.

175.44 + armor you mean.

ThatGuySnugglesJun 2, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=0004000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T01:36:52.064+0000)

I don't think you've ever played Yasuo against a team with a competent tank tank before. If in that video he still steamrolled that team with 2 CC tanks on it, then maybe you could have an argument, but showing a clickbait video of Yasuo steamrolling a terribad team comb on PBE is not proof for anything. You are also completely ignoring the fact that Yasuo's crits do less damage to begin with and IE losing the +50% modifier for true damage is still a big nerf against squishy targets and only a buff against tanks once late game rolls around.

No Offense but that honestly is a really retarded arguement, the most used item against yasuo's on tanks was randuin's which made crit do 15% less dmg, now that 15% less crit dmg is basically ignored by 15% tru dmg along with the amount of crit he already does so basically building randuin's means nothing now. cause all it negates is 15% crit and if a yasuo builds IE then he gets 15% of his crit as tru dmg also i already explained a skilled yasuo player(most are) should know not to literally run at the squishies, without getting too technical most tank are literally in the fronline. good yasuo players will be able to use that to their advantage get behind destroy the low health tagetts leaving the tanks who probably built randuin's which again is gonna do alooooot less against yasuo rn. Trust me i didn't just say what i said to be an outlier. this was adefinite buff and makes yasuo really strong against squishies as he's always been and even more effective against tanks because... randuin's...

Irelia BotJun 2, 20186 votes

{quoted}

No Offense but that honestly is a really retarded arguement, the most used item against yasuo's on tanks was randuin's which made crit do 15% less dmg, now that 15% less crit dmg is basically ignored by 15% tru dmg along with the amount of crit he already does so basically building randuin's means nothing now. cause all it negates is 15% crit and if a yasuo builds IE then he gets 15% of his crit as tru dmg also i already explained a skilled yasuo player(most are) should know not to literally run at the squishies, without getting too technical most tank are literally in the fronline. good yasuo players will be able to use that to their advantage get behind destroy the low health tagetts leaving the tanks who probably built randuin's which again is gonna do alooooot less against yasuo rn. Trust me i didn't just say what i said to be an outlier. this was adefinite buff and makes yasuo really strong against squishies as he's always been and even more effective against tanks because... randuin's...

Well I guess someone has to keep his ban rate high.

The numbers are in front of you but you can chose to ignore them if you want.

ThatGuySnugglesJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=000400010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-02T01:51:27.383+0000)

Well I guess someone has to keep his ban rate high.

The numbers are in front of you but you can chose to ignore them if you want.

Read what the item does before you base everything you know on what the person who made the discussion says. If you do you'll see the true dmg how it works and notice that the discussion paragraph said nothing about it at all. That's all i have to say.

Irelia BotJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Read what the item does before you base everything you know on what the person who made the discussion says. If you do you'll see the true dmg how it works and notice that the discussion paragraph said nothing about it at all. That's all i have to say.

Losing 50% crit chance to have 15% of the attack changed to true damage. No change in crit chance since it is already 100%.

if having 100 base AD as a simple number to explain the calculation with in yasuo's case agaisnt an enemy wiht 100 armor while having 100% crit chance

Old: 100AD2.4 crit damage multiplier * (100/(100+100))= 120 New:(100.85 damage that is physical1.9 crit multiplier(100/(100+100))) + (100*.15 that is true damage*1.9) = 109.25

The 10 more AD is not something I am calculating in as it goes into numbers that are not constant since 10 more AD is not 10% of 200 but is 10% of 100.

If you wnat how much damage it adds then just take the numbers above and devide the mby 10 and that is how much damage it is providing in the situation.

The calculation above has old IE doing 9.8% more damage to a target with 100 armor.

A target with 0 armor has old IE doing 26.3% more damage to the target.

The breaking point for when the new IE does more damage for Yasuo is 175.44 where new IE will be having Yasuo's crits more effective against the target

That is without even including that his ult ignores 50% of bonus armor when active making it really rare for him to be doing more damage while all other crit champs will be doing more damage to tanks.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20182 votes

While I agree with you on this, your math for the crit damage is a little off. Yasuo deals 10% reduced damage on crits, which is applied to the 200% damage they normally do, hence 180% overall.

Plugging these numbers into your equations (and adding the +10 AD), we get: Old: 100 x 2.25 = 225, 225/2 = 112.5 New: 110 x 1.8 = 198, 198*.85/2 +198*.15 =84.15+29.7=113.85.

With this, we can see the damage comes out to about the same around this point, ignoring of course Yasuo's previous access to conqueror, his ultimate, any armor pen item, or an ally with Black Cleaver (especially Garen).

The biggest problem for Yasuo is that he can no longer rush IE, he must first build a zeal item which deals no damage on its own. This and the fact that he's paying 500 more gold for this build.

Irelia BotJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=000400010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T17:41:28.061+0000)

While I agree with you on this, your math for the crit damage is a little off. Yasuo deals 10% reduced damage on crits, which is applied to the 200% damage they normally do, hence 180% overall.

Plugging these numbers into your equations (and adding the +10 AD), we get: Old: 100 x 2.25 = 225, 225/2 = 112.5 New: 110 x 1.8 = 198, 198*.85/2 +198*.15 =84.15+29.7=113.85.

With this, we can see the damage comes out to about the same around this point, ignoring of course Yasuo's previous access to conqueror, his ultimate, any armor pen item, or an ally with Black Cleaver (especially Garen).

The biggest problem for Yasuo is that he can no longer rush IE, he must first build a zeal item which deals no damage on its own. This and the fact that he's paying 500 more gold for this build.

And that would make the numbers even worse.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20181 votes

Exactly.

Irelia BotJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=00040001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T17:50:30.675+0000)

Exactly.

Calculation has been updated. 166.666 armor seems to be the correct point where yasuo starts doing more damage to a target.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20181 votes

Which armor reductions does that include? Conqueror? Ult? LDR?

Irelia BotJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2wsafJ5T,comment-id=0004000100000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-02T18:28:51.050+0000)

Which armor reductions does that include? Conqueror? Ult? LDR?

Not including armor pen or reductions.

All of the math in this is fairly straight forward and can be figured out with grade school math. I'll let people figure that out if they want to know.

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20184 votes

the +10 AD helps a good amount against squishies. Not quite worth the gold it takes to get it, though.

My Waifu VanillaJun 3, 20181 votes

Another thing is the true damage conversion also doesn't help him much. He already shreds tanks well enough with 50% shred on ulti and conqueror. Anything else is excessive and much worse than more damage on crits.

IxozieIJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

thats why i said if there is a tank he would still be able to do alot, despite the fact that he still basically gets 15% extra dmg

That's not how it works. Yasuo dies very fast with most builds and the tank will CC him while the tank's team melts him. Since he's melee he won't be able to reach the backline unless he lands a Q which is difficult against competent players. Furthermore, even if he does land Q sometimes he can't ult because of champs like Maokai that have a point-and-click root which he has no way of stopping, or Vi / Jax who just flat out murder him while CCing him. Even mid / late-mid game Maokai can still murder him 1v1, let alone with a teammate backing him up.

Windwall is incredibly strong against certain champs. It's also completely useless against others. I think that discrepancy makes him feel very frustrating to play against if you typically play the former type of champions. It can also make playing Yasuo very frustrating. One game you can go 15-2 and the next game you're practically useless because of the champions on the enemy team.

NemeBroJun 2, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Even mid / late-mid game Maokai can still murder him 1v1

No he can't, lol.

FrozenDeath14Jun 2, 20181 votes

Maokai can beat Yas till mid game effortlessly he loses once he gets 3 items and Ulti him thing that can be dodged with Mao's W and he can Also Q him before he presses R AND root him with R. Stop talking if you are absolutely clueless about the game

NemeBroJun 2, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Maokai can beat Yas till mid game effortlessly he loses once he gets 3 items and Ulti him thing that can be dodged with Mao's W and he can Also Q him before he presses R AND root him with R. Stop talking if you are absolutely clueless about the game

So you acknowledge that in mid game Maokai loses to Yasuo 1v1? When I was disputing a post that said Maokai beats him mid and late game 1v1? So you agree with me, but I should stop talking?

How's about you stop posting on these boards until you actually learn how to speak the English language?

FrozenDeath14Jun 2, 20181 votes

[deleted]

NemeBroJun 2, 20183 votes

<Removed by Moderation>

You're tripping all over your words here.

YOU said, not me, that Maokai can beat Yasuo until mid game.

Which corroborates with what I said, that Yasuo beats Maokai mid to late game.

Then you disagreed with me, when you first agreed with me.

FrozenDeath14Jun 2, 20182 votes

[deleted]

Rathar DashingJun 2, 20183 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/353/279/e31.jpg

NemeBroJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You are a fucking American you don't even know whom your ancestors are calling any other country a third world country considering you are offsprings off random foreigners raping girls and incest between the rich people. You don't know if ou are English,Hispanic,Native or w/e the fuck you call yourselves. Point remains go shoot yourselfs you are good for nothing aside making chevy's and mustangs

How does that change the fact that your grasp of the English language is too poor to have a constructive discussion on League using it? Your comment was nonsensical. Deal with it my friend.

ModPeriscopeJun 4, 20181 votes

I realize this user may not have been the friendliest, but that doesn't give you the right to insult them because they don't use the language as well as you do.

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