Anyone else tired of Graves?

TrikzterzArma·Aug 28, 2018·73 votes·17,070 views

He shoots out his smoke, dashes in and basically oneshots you while taking very little damage.

I remember when Graves was reworked and was capable of doing this, and then got nerfed hard the patch after.

41 Comments

Madsin25Aug 28, 201837 votes

There has been a graves/jax/jhin in every single one of the games ive played in the past few days. Every. Single. Game.

Luckily the graves have been on my team hard carrying with very little effort.

NY64Aug 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

There has been a graves/jax/jhin in every single one of the games ive played in the past few days. Every. Single. Game.

Luckily the graves have been on my team hard carrying with very little effort.

That’s probably because those 3 are op. Graves op because of Stormrazor and Duskblade Jhin op because of Stormrazor Jax because well I’m not exactly sure but I think because of either trinity force, conqueror, or he just has too much utility. Am I wrong about Jax, just wondering what makes him so strong.

crippler38Aug 28, 20181 votes

Might be because you can't stormrazer/duskblade glass him, and his damage is real high for his tankiness. Meaning he can slam down towers and enemies without nearly as much fear as most characters have to have.

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 29, 20182 votes

Jax is strong because his kit allows him to do everything. He builds damage early which his Ultimate allows him to due to giving armor. He will almost always win 1v1 duels because of counterstrike which allows him to be a good split pusher, his passive helps this as well so does the fact he builds trinity. He is a good team fighter due to counterstrike lessening AOE dmg and proving an aoe stun while making the enemy adc useless vs u for a few seconds. He has a gap closer which serves as an escape and allows him to jump over walls. His W is more damage and can be used to proc trinity turning it into a nuke. His R gives him a spike, every item he buys gives him a power spike. He deals physical damage, magical damage and conqueror allows him to deal true damage. And just a recap, Jax has:

A leap (dash)
A leap which serves as an escape 2.1) Leap can be used to jump over walls
CC
Attack speed steroid 4.1) Attack speed steriod works with his entire kit
An ultimate that gives armor and magic resist 5.1) Ultimate doubles down and gives passive bursts of damage
His entire kit can proc trinity
His entire kit synergies when you build either Ad or Ap or when you build both.
An AA deny 8.1) Doubles down as damage reduction from AOE abilities inflicted upon him

What the fuck does this champion not have.

Milton FletcherAug 29, 20181 votes

he mainly wins because red smite has been allowed to be broken as fuck for ages because no one complains about it.

ArdondAug 29, 20184 votes

he has no real way of dealing with ranged without fully committing
has no escape once he has leaped into combat
lacks burst unless he builds full ap
is extremely item dependent resulting a feast or famine play style
Is relatively telegraphed in his engage because of medium ranged dash

Sorry but Jax has a ton of counter play to him that just requires you to plan a little before fighting him. Want to gank him? Make him waste his q. Want to shut him down? Start poking/skirmishing when he has used his abilities on farm. Want to duel him? Wait until his passive stacks fall off. There is a reason Jax hadn't been good for several patches prior to this one.

KrynnˉAug 29, 20184 votes

I don't know what melee has a way of dealing with ranged with-out fully comitting, it's the nature of being melee.
"Has no escape once he has leaped into combat", with 40% CDR jax Q has a 2.4 second CD.
Jax has plenty of burst with Trinity, Empowered Q, and his 3rd stack of R. With a build like he has 290 AD and like 4k HP, with an approx total burst damage of 1,534, so imo he has plenty of burst, granted this is only late game.
Jax has pretty decent base damage, he is sorta like a juggernaut in a sense in terms of damage output for the reason that he can build trinity force and pretty much duel anyone if you haven't fed in lane, I do believe he is sorta feast or famine but pretty much every skirmisher, marksman, mage, etc are feast or famine in the sense that they are usless with-out items.
Most skirmishers are telegraphed in engage, most melees are telelgraphed in their engage, tbh though if you're ahead as jax you shouldn't be really teamgighting anyway, you're a duelist, like a champion who is based around good 1v1 potential, he is suppose to be a 1v1, 1v2 splitpush champion.

Just clearing up some stuff, Jax has tons of counterplay though, that part isn't wrong.

Ulquiorra0123Aug 29, 20181 votes

This build is actually cancer, he is unkillable as soon as he finishes 3 items lmao. Fun to play with cause you just get hardcarried by a broken champ, really cancer to play against cause you just cant do anything to him.

Velzard of KozAug 28, 201819 votes

Anyone else tired of Graves?

Yeah, I think they're overrated. Cremation would be much more efficient.

Daddy AntsAug 28, 201817 votes

I'm more tired of Jhin

DontUTrustMeAug 28, 20189 votes

Absolutly TIRED of it... like one of his w and you want to suicide the slow and the black screen is just so annoying. and he is not esy to kill when he builds item 3046 and item 3812 it makes him kinda of tanky especially when he grabs it too item 3156

RavenMagusAug 29, 20185 votes

Less tired of Graves, more tired of basically every AD champion at this point.

Agent CorgiAug 28, 20184 votes

Man I miss Old Graves.

VelasanAug 28, 20182 votes

Yes... and I'm not that big on complaining, but there are just some champions that don't need to be that strong.

I was playing Mundo a couple days ago. Graves is the enemy jungler. We are BOTH fed. I think he had like 9 kills and I had 7, he's slightly up on gold, but not massively.

I have 3 armor items and 2 health items (had to get merc treads because there was a lot of cc in that game though). Graves is soloing the bot lane. I'm like thinking, ok I got this.. I have three armor items and he's alone.

I come around the corner he red smites and Q's, then autos. Takes off almost my entire health bar. Next shot kills me. I look at death recap... one basic attack did 45% of my health on the first hit... as a full tank Mundo. What?

NorglicsAug 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes... and I'm not that big on complaining, but there are just some champions that don't need to be that strong.

I was playing Mundo a couple days ago. Graves is the enemy jungler. We are BOTH fed. I think he had like 9 kills and I had 7, he's slightly up on gold, but not massively.

I have 3 armor items and 2 health items (had to get merc treads because there was a lot of cc in that game though). Graves is soloing the bot lane. I'm like thinking, ok I got this.. I have three armor items and he's alone.

I come around the corner he red smites and Q's, then autos. Takes off almost my entire health bar. Next shot kills me. I look at death recap... one basic attack did 45% of my health on the first hit... as a full tank Mundo. What?

game gives extra dmg to one team to be victorius , and defense items are crap , you should have bought full dmg items alpha ones , so if you manage to right click first you win

EmpressOfBeautyAug 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes... and I'm not that big on complaining, but there are just some champions that don't need to be that strong.

I was playing Mundo a couple days ago. Graves is the enemy jungler. We are BOTH fed. I think he had like 9 kills and I had 7, he's slightly up on gold, but not massively.

I have 3 armor items and 2 health items (had to get merc treads because there was a lot of cc in that game though). Graves is soloing the bot lane. I'm like thinking, ok I got this.. I have three armor items and he's alone.

I come around the corner he red smites and Q's, then autos. Takes off almost my entire health bar. Next shot kills me. I look at death recap... one basic attack did 45% of my health on the first hit... as a full tank Mundo. What?

Well the red smite does make autos do true damage, that may be why?

Child of the PitAug 28, 20182 votes

It's less Graves and more the combo of item 3147 + item 3095

Yung Sashimi Aug 28, 20182 votes

It's either Graves, kai'sai, or kindred every damn game.

MonstermushmushAug 28, 20182 votes

Yeah... good early game and pretty good late game... there shouldn't be a champ that can have both a good early and late game.

JimqDAug 29, 20182 votes

I'm tired of every fucking highly mobile ad assassin pussy

Succubús GFAug 29, 20182 votes

I'm tired of the too high damage tbh

SwimmxAug 28, 20181 votes

Most games. On my team or the Enemies he gets Superfed. Tired of Graves Bullshit.

Fury ReaverAug 28, 20181 votes

Im tired of Ryze aswell

KrullyAug 28, 20181 votes

I'm tired of bullshit items like duskblade

Alex h8721Aug 28, 20181 votes

He does a stupid amount of damage for the utility/survivability he has.

AkaśhíAug 28, 20181 votes

Nothing good happened with Graves' rework I remember season 7 he was 2-shoting you with Youmumu + Statikk Shiv, great now he two-shots us again but this time with Duskblade + Stormrazor... naisu!

NotAPurpleFrogAug 28, 20181 votes

She shits on melee champions, he shits on marksmen, he shits on anyone that isn't a tank, and then he shits on tanks, he has way too much damage and kiting with his DASH as a tanky bruiser ranged champion with "untargetability", cc, more cc, aoe damage, more aoe, a dash + aoe damage.

SharukenAug 28, 20181 votes

No not really. I just started learning him lol

l MrD lAug 28, 20181 votes

its not graves itself... its graves jungle for me ... i just want to play vs or as an adc graves again :S

d4rkshockAug 28, 20181 votes

Ive only seen graves once in the past week. Then again, I've been replaying some of my old games after fixing my old wii that had GameCube compatibility. Sometimes you just can't beat the classics. Anyways even then I've played lol after playing windwaker and getting out of bronze is a real chore. Im hardstuck b1/b2. That's not even the problem I'm 7nning into. The problem is my account is cursed. Every time I get near my s5 promos, I get a mega cold streak. Then back to 0lp or worse b2.

ValiantKillerAug 28, 20181 votes

Yet that 20% pickrate to his winrate is fine for riot, while MonkeyKing with very low pickrate to his winrate was a problem.

ned the kledAug 28, 20181 votes

reminds me of the graves infinite E script

Z3SleeperAug 28, 20181 votes

Not his fault, I blame Scuttle. It's polarizing jungle around duelist junglers that can contest other junglers at Scuttle.

BoulderoxAug 29, 20181 votes

tired of every fucker that builds item 3095 and or item 3147

{quoted}

Yet that 20% pickrate to his winrate is fine for riot, while with very low pickrate to his winrate was a problem. he beat a in lcs or something didn't he?

Neptunia xoxoAug 29, 20181 votes

This whole rework was extremely uneeded lol

Hemulen MagiAug 29, 20182 votes

The rework made him a lot more interesting. Before it, he was a pretty generic right-click-to-win (and pray your team protects you) champion like most marksmen... I think we need a lot more marksmen reworks like Graves.

These could be a lot less generic:
Corki (needs more skillshots, flame trails, AOE and explosions, less autoattack damage)

Draven (identity built around snowballing into 2-shot un-dodgeable autoattacks is unhealthy in an already excessively snowbally game)

Caitlyn (needs more identity around traps and sniping long range skill shots and less on long-range autoattacks)

Kalista (the passive and ultimate are awful for Kalista's team and her opponents in solo queue; really needs a big rework)

Jhin (passive actually broken these days... not working as intended and warping the game; could be healthy as an immobile sniper like he was on release, but Riot is letting his passive oversights last so long that people are beginning to feel like hyper mobility and massive burst are his core identity...)

Quinn (ridiculously abusive in top lane, impossible to interact with as melee, and lacks counterplay as mobile 1-shot from range assassination playstyle with item 3147 item 3095 )

Tristana (needs more explosions/AOE and less autoattack damage; should be a hybrid playstyle between a marksman and Ziggs and could have a demolitionist niche at taking down turrets and tanks with her bombs rather than being so excessively safe with rocket jump and draw a bead)

Teemo (needs longer range or something to work in bot/mid lane and to be kicked out of top lane)

Sivir (could be way more interesting as an especially short-ranged risky but mobile fighter-marksman, with a playstyle kind of like Irelia )

Vayne (needs her Q damage burst removed to turn her back into a tank-shredding specialist; she should focus on attack speed and her W)

MissFortune (shouldn't be bursting half an opponent's hp with double-up, especially on its un-dodgeable first hit; she's toxic but not exactly generic in playstyle... needs work but I don't know what she specifically needs)

KogMaw (I think he could be healthier as a hybrid AD/AP artillery with AP scaling being important to shred enemy resists and siege from a distance with skill shots. If his AP scaling feeds into shredding enemy resistances, this encourages him to build hybrid since his AP will reduce enemy armor and thereby multiply his AD autoattack's damage output)

Kindred (Probably an unpopular opinion, but I feel like he should scale into less damage to champions, but should have some sort of gimmick to teleport around the map in the jungle to make him more interesting and strategic. It could also help him reach his marks.)

Twitch (Probably another unpopular opinion, but I think he should be all about being sneaky and should have much worse dps. I think his poison slow should be a trap he can place on the map or throw directly onto an enemy. I think he should have two stealth abilities, his Q and his ultimate, which should put him in stealth and give him his spray-n-pray effect along with his attack speed buff when he exits stealth. To pay for this, spray-n-pray should splash for much less damage. So Twitch would ult to stealth and run into a fight, hit the enemy a few times, then Q to sneak away again before they can retaliate. Very much an identity as a sneaky rat scum bag who fights dirty, but actually less toxic because he won't burst your whole team when he manages to ambush you. Also he should have good waveclear with his poison AOE + Expunge but the actual worst base defenses in the game to ensure that he doesn't jungle.)

[Some marksmen should stay more-or-less as-is, even if some of them are somewhat 'generic' as Ashe/Varus/Jinx can be the archetypes of the marksmen class: Ashe Jinx Varus Xayah Ezreal Kaisa I am also a fan of the fighter-hybrid Marksmen even if they need some rebalancing in a few areas: Graves Urgot Gnar ]

GunsoAug 29, 20181 votes

Yeah, I just started playing him and his kit is kind of boring. You have to play well, though. His W has a long as fuck CD, it's like 25 seconds and definitely not a skill you focus. Any sort of misstep and you're caught out. He gets a bunch of armor from Grit stacks, but he's still pretty squishy. Just CC him and blow him up.

RyusaetherAug 29, 20181 votes

They just can't give hime some resistances or 1 good Item that he becomes overwhelming.

But I'm tired of predator Gragas too

Hemulen MagiAug 29, 20181 votes

I am okay with Graves design-wise, but there is something wrong with his scaling balance. I've had situations where he's outdueling melee juggernauts in melee range at full build and lifestealing back to full health every couple seconds... I'd say it's a problem with marksmen crit item scaling in general (and lifesteal being multiplied by crit), and Graves has access to build those items. Ranged champions should need to use their range advantage... Marksmen item lategame multiplicative interactions have been broken for a long time.

King I RatAug 30, 20181 votes

Every single game that I don't ban him, he is there. I ban him by default. Fuck matchups, fuck everything, I am so tired of his stupid fucking cowboy face every game, dashing in, missing Q, missing ult and still being able to just auto me to death. He has been busted for this entire season and Riot is doing nothing about it.

Mighty MorteinAug 30, 20181 votes

I'm sick of seeing Kai'sa and then not seeing her for like 50% of late game. I'm gonna have to start banning her just so there's a bit more variety in the ADC picks in my games.