Why Mordekaiser's "Harvester of Sorrow"s the worst part about his kit/rework

Malicious Metal··35 votes·5,691 views

If you take a look at Mordekaiser's abilities you'll probably find them all pretty straight forward; Q's a ramping up melee range nuke, his E's a cone damage spell that builds up shield, his passive's a great tool for a brawler and his ultimate's a huge heal/shield generator/nuke and even provides a clone. All skills speaking for a solo laner fit for top lane, where brawls are commonplace and the home of tanky champions.

Now we take a look at W; Harvester of Sorrow! It's a MESS. It's utility's not only bound to having a nearby ally, NO. the damage part itself's only going to trigger when you've got an ally sanding right next to you. The heal's mediocre at best since it's base value's pretty small and the scaling won't do much until in the later parts of the game. For some godforsaken reason Riot went about to give it what they call "Invisible power" in form of a passive that doesn't even penalties you laning with an ally. This is not only an unfair advantage over every other bot laner but the sheer uselessness of the skill if not having an ally nearby makes it really, really hard for a solo lane kaiser to work.

Bot lane advantage Bot lane's all about outleveling your opponent, reach certain powerspikes quicker and dominate the opposing team. What other ADC's and supports have to work hard for Morde gets for FREE, which his entire viability bot lane revolves around. It's an artificial edge the guy gets simply for playing the goddamn game, not having to lift a single finger to get ahead. Once he reaches level 6, way earlier than the enemies that is, he'll get a dragon and from there on he'll roflstomp the opposition. This is shown by his 57% winrate, which plummets down to about 47% in games that last longer than 20 minutes. >>>>>>>Morde's entire viability' bot is based on getting ahead and ending the game before his enemies can catch up and stop his rampage.

Top lane handicap When did ENTICING became FORCING? Since patch 5.16 it seems. Even though riot claimed morde could handle the solo lane properly he's been left to rust with the likes of Urgot and Galio. Barely clinging to a winrate slightly over 40%, going as far as to drop to 38% in mid lane. The main reason for his is his polarizing gameplay; He needs to get ahead to be able to afford his expensive build and if he only gets slightly behind top he's dead meat. His abysmal MS of 325 doesn't really help either since he's basically free gold when the enemy jungler decides to drive by. Not to mention the sheer lack of tools to handle long range enemies on his own. >>>>>Supports cover up his glaring weaknesses to make him unstoppable while top lane Morde's got no tools to excel in a Solo lane due to his lack of W skill, defensive steroids, long range farming tools and means to push out a lane.

Natural Viability or Enforced dominance? Old Morde had his niche, he was THE pusher, Numero Uno, he could roflstomp the opposition when ahead but still handle getting his ass handled to him. He was able to be a mid range mage or a tanky Ap bruiser who relied on his shield and ultimate heal to stay alive in teamfights. When ganked he was usually able to survive both enemies since he'd probably weakened his enemy laner enough with his constant poke, built up enough shield with his (un nerfed) shield gain and siphon. He could even put his creeping death on an incoming minion to gain a burst of MS to get out of the sticky situation. Having had 340 MS was necessary for the guy to succeed since he was slow, pushed the lane and didn't have any natural form of sustain. His niche wasn't the most popular but he worked and harbored the reputation for being a Monster if the player knew how to play him. His gameplay pattern in lane wasn't very engaging but he had his fair share of counterplay and strategies to deal with him. While the old Mordekaiser had an established role and was actually viable without gimmicks like Dragon clones, XP passives and the like the new Morde's being forcefully pushed down Bot in order for a gimmick to keep him viable. And here lies the problem with the rework! Same as yasuo actually. By giving him hidden power they try to make him work off this gimmick rather than allowing him to find his own lane, playstyle and niche. They try to shoehorn him into Bot solely based on the strategy to dominate the enemy before they get a chance to play around him. >>>>>>Making Morde work off a gimmicky strategy is not only unhealthy and toxic but also inhibits him to find his own place in League's vast array of champions. He doesn't work because his kit actually works well but because Riot made him get ahead by default when teamed up with a support.

Give him a chance to make a name for himself with the tools you give him rather than make him the semi-viable Gimmicky pick he is now.

~M.M

33 Comments

Mortekaiser23 votes

pre-rework mordekaiser had a 51% winrate? it had clear strengths and weaknesses, with good matchups and bad matchups for morde? he could actually fight a bunch of top lane bruisers on some level without immediately dying? and he had a simple, straight forward kit? and he actually wasn't toxic, just players playing like bitches, when morde punishes pansy-ass players?

fuck it, lets rework mordekaiser into a situationally more toxic and harder to balance champion.

10 out of fucking 10

Seekêr1 votes

{quoted}

pre-rework mordekaiser had a 51% winrate? it had clear strengths and weaknesses, with good matchups and bad matchups for morde? he could actually fight a bunch of top lane bruisers on some level without immediately dying? and he had a simple, straight forward kit? and he actually wasn't toxic, just players playing like bitches, when morde punishes pansy-ass players?

fuck it, lets rework mordekaiser into a situationally more toxic and harder to balance champion.

10 out of fucking 10

Refer to Soraka rework because "a targeted silence is toxic".

Janisjesus5 votes

I like duo-lane mordekaiser for the break in monotony he provides in the botlane right now, it's fresh and exciting. I do however think solo morde should still be an option. What kind of changes would you suggest to bring him back to viability in a solo lane?

Steelflame3 votes

Solo cast W with it's damage and heal intact, but lose the MS boost (due to having no one to run to). Meanwhile, if you choose to cast it on someone else, you do have to stay in range of eachother to keep the damage running as on live (but the heal second activation doesn't still need it interestingly enough on live, so I'd assume the same would be true after this change).

Boom, fixed. Kaiser can now lane solo with access to his heal and a good dueling damage in 1v1, or has access to a strong 2 man lane potential untouched. Or at least, after a faint tune down of his 2 man lane potential anyway.

Vhalthoria5 votes

{quoted}

Solo cast W with it's damage and heal intact, but lose the MS boost (due to having no one to run to). Meanwhile, if you choose to cast it on someone else, you do have to stay in range of eachother to keep the damage running as on live (but the heal second activation doesn't still need it interestingly enough on live, so I'd assume the same would be true after this change).

Boom, fixed. Kaiser can now lane solo with access to his heal and a good dueling damage in 1v1, or has access to a strong 2 man lane potential untouched. Or at least, after a faint tune down of his 2 man lane potential anyway.

You need to see beyond the picture here. He is squishier, slower, and his damage has become so impractical that you will need somebody to pin the targets for you.

Do you really think this will be able to resurrect his solo functionality by itself? I highly doubt it and it will take more than just letting him self cast it.

His worst nerf was shifting all of his power to his close quarter combat spell, while butchering his MS and base stats for going in and doing so. This is why this Morde now needs a support and hence why this design is horrendously flawed.

bakenhunter5 votes

Seriously Riot had to know how op the W passive is in bot lane, and put it on Morde no less, the camp known for killing your ADC and having them kill you. Like Zilean's passive nerf was cause he gave unfair lane advantage that only had the couterplay of just wreck your lane opponent. But nope morde gets almost double xp for killing minions. It's like they literally had to bribe people in order to play him bot.

Malicious Metal7 votes

{quoted}

Seriously Riot had to know how op the W passive is in bot lane, and put it on Morde no less, the camp known for killing your ADC and having them kill you. Like Zilean's passive nerf was cause he gave unfair lane advantage that only had the couterplay of just wreck your lane opponent. But nope morde gets almost double xp for killing minions. It's like they literally had to bribe people in order to play him bot.

THIS! They deliberately gimped him so hard that he's only viable bot lane due to his stupid W. It's the skill making him dominate bot but also serves as a mean to completely destroy his solo lane prowess. It needs fixing if they actually want to balance him properly and make him more healthy to the game.

Vhalthoria5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2vpweP7Q,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-08-27T21:00:39.685+0000)

THIS! They deliberately gimped him so hard that he's only viable bot lane due to his stupid W. It's the skill making him dominate bot but also serves as a mean to completely destroy his solo lane prowess. It needs fixing if they actually want to balance him properly and make him more healthy to the game.

The thing is that Old Morde** could freely go** bot if he wanted without the need of none of these drastic changes to his kit, specially this W passive advantage and the other gimmicks that they had to literally cripple his base stats in order to compensate. That's what pisses me off the most.

Malicious Metal6 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that Old Morde** could freely go** bot if he wanted without the need of none of these drastic changes to his kit, specially this W passive advantage and the other gimmicks that they had to literally cripple his base stats in order to compensate. That's what pisses me off the most.

They've reworked themselves into a corner. They won't be able to balance Mordekaiser around this gimmick and he'll probably be either blatantly OP or trash. They forced him bot and are trying desperately to make it worth instead of letting him establish himself on his own. How did Trundle/Shen/Nauti become great supports? By being forced into the position? Hell no! You can't really force the meta to change....

MrWasjig2 votes

The Trundle/Shen/Naut support are a great example of players making innovation themselves. But Riot always seems to be against that (at least in my eyes), and a god example of this is shoe-horning Kaiser into botlane rather than actually fixing the problems they wanted to fix and just letting him find himself. (By that I mean, the players finding where he works)

There's nothing wrong with having a desired role for a champion but to stifle innovation is just....wrong.

Fadedpf3 votes

Cheesy rework is cheesy

MrWasjig1 votes

Gimmicky rework is gimmicky

Fixed that for you :3

Laraso3 votes

As a Morde main, I have to admit I'm pretty upset with a lot of things they did to him. I said I would stop maining him but I've found that I'm just too attached to Mordekaiser as a champion to give him up.

I didn't read your entire post as I don't have the time right now, but I'd just like to leave a comment that his W wasn't particularly the most useful skill before. Other than not being able to use it without an ally (seriously retarded), everything about it is a step up from his old W. The only thing it's missing is the resistances, which honestly didn't do much unless you were one of those people who maxed W first.

sp4413 votes

I tried playing him once.

Holy fucking shit it sucked, playing as him felt clunky and unintuitive as shit, it's like he has no fucking idea what he wants to be. Not to mention that his kit lacks satisfying impact and I didn't once crack a smile playing as him save for the rare third Q when my opponent was too braindead to move out of the way.

This rework is garbage.

Malicious Metal6 votes

{quoted}

I tried playing him once.

Holy fucking shit it sucked, playing as him felt clunky and unintuitive as shit, it's like he has no fucking idea what he wants to be. Not to mention that his kit lacks satisfying impact and I didn't once crack a smile playing as him save for the rare third Q when my opponent was too braindead to move out of the way.

This rework is garbage.

It's been about a week and I'm still sad about all the satisfying moments I'll never experience with Morde ever again. -Castrating an entire minion wave with just E/Q -The satisfying yell Morde unleashes once he ults someone, killing them on the spot from 850 range away -Turning an enemy gank attempt into a 1v2 in my favor and getting a double kill -Always shield, never die moments when nuking down the enemy team with my massive AoE damage

The more I think of it the more depressing it gets -.-''

Vhalthoria2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2vpweP7Q,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-08-27T21:58:36.940+0000)

It's been about a week and I'm still sad about all the satisfying moments I'll never experience with Morde ever again. -Castrating an entire minion wave with just E/Q -The satisfying yell Morde unleashes once he ults someone, killing them on the spot from 850 range away -Turning an enemy gank attempt into a 1v2 in my favor and getting a double kill -Always shield, never die moments when nuking down the enemy team with my massive AoE damage

The more I think of it the more depressing it gets -.-''

You are not alone, we feel exactly the same...

I literally had the best guide for top Morde on LoLKing.net. I just had to make it private...

sp4412 votes

The saddest thing is that functionally, his kit is still pretty much the same, it's just that it feels so clunky and unintuitive to use now that whatever satisfaction I had playing as Morde just ain't there anymore. Using Q to bash somebody over the head? Well you gotta bash twice first before it actually has a significant impact! Using W? Not anymore you're not, not unless there's somebody in your team glued to your crotch, have fun moving unnaturally around your teammate! Using E? Congratulations, it hurts as much as a stiff breeze now! Using R? No you're not, you got a cool ass dragon now! A dragon that takes a fucking eternity to get anywhere and attacks once a blue moon.

El Seibzehn1 votes

Build nashor's tooth and rylais and they will be terrified to be in range of your q. Also don't forget that that dragon kills turrets and that Morde, Dragon and one other person can take dragon at 21 mins.

sp4411 votes

They're already terrified to be in range of your Q, the problem is that if they have half a brain they won't be, and it still feels fucking awkward to have to hit something twice before you can actually land a strong strike on a champion that has very low base Movement Speed AND no way to stick to an opponent.

El Seibzehn1 votes

I used to think like you and then I put several games in with him and now I don't.

-New Morde doesn't need to use E/Q to kill full minion waves because he does it with a single well placed W. -Oh noes now there's the less satisfying yell from 650 range. It's more of squeak now from that range. (a fus ro squeek if you will. -now instead of turning a 1v2 in your favor you can turn a 2v3 in your favor so another moot point. -Semi valid point tho he still gets plenty of shield but now it's enhanced by a pretty strong heal as well. his AoE is garbage now but his single target is hella strong and he's super difficult to kill if he is surrounded by teammates. i have personally survived a fizz and zed ult AT THE SAME TIME and only died because after I killed them I got Ekko ulted as well.

Just waiting for supports to get used to him more and for him to stop getting banned for I start playing him in ranked now.

Voidgolem2 votes

still not sold on why people can't just run him duo bot as riot clearly wants them to.

Malicious Metal6 votes

{quoted}

still not sold on why people can't just run him duo bot as riot clearly wants them to.

How would you feel if they would take your main and force him into a duo lane? It's not only insulting for the people who put a lot of effort in mastering the specific roles for their champs and learnt everything there was to know about all the matchups. Also, Riot reassured us he'll be viable solo but NO, he HAS to be near his babysitter to actually do shit.

#Diversity

Voidgolem1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2vpweP7Q,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-08-27T21:08:01.113+0000)

How would you feel if they would take your main and force him into a duo lane? It's not only insulting for the people who put a lot of effort in mastering the specific roles for their champs and learnt everything there was to know about all the matchups. Also, Riot reassured us he'll be viable solo but NO, he HAS to be near his babysitter to actually do shit.

#Diversity

I main Taric.

problem?

Malicious Metal2 votes

{quoted}

I main Taric.

problem?

Jungle taric Inc!

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

my Soraka got nerfed out of solo lanes simply because all the other champions were not on her level like lol its simply the way it is deal with it......and the sad part is when they punished solo lane Soraka they also punished duo lane Soraka since building tank does not help it just hurts her even more.her only way to regain her health is so slow that you don't even need boots to dodge it her silence is AOE but in order for it to be very effective you need to have that champion CC'ed to death.but then that means your silence is just overkill at that point.since she has no cc at all she can't make openings for ganks.i could say she lets her adc scale into late game thats one thing she has.but since they removed her ability to give mana she cant keep her ADC in lane for too long before they go OOM. shes almost helpless fighting supports like Thresh Blitzcrank Leona who can just cc her or her adc to the ground.i can only use my passive to get to injured targets faster unlike her first passive that let her give magic resist to her team her heals dont give armor so now its easier for people to just re apply the damage.she can't even heal herself without landing Q or Ulting for fucks sake.do you seriously think Mordekaiser is any different mord can at least deal good damge and end the game but soraka relies on stalling the game where is the Diversity in forcing soraka to be a support? how come TahmKench gets to be a top laner and a support how come Velkoz can be a support and a mid laner? so many questions so little time.... ok sorry i got a little carried away but still you know my point forcing a champion to be in one lane is nothing new why should Mordekaiser be any different

7ball2 votes

Man I really hate this rework

MrWasjig2 votes

The funniest part about the "Invisible Power" they gave him with Harvestor's passive XP gain, is that Riot has gone on record in the past to say they're against invisible power. It's the reason they removed the bonus gold passive from Ashe's Hawkshot when they updated her a few patches ago. I guess CertainlyT just kinda loves doing his own thing and not giving a fuck about anyone/anything else :P (as if that wasn't obvious)

Bijorn1 votes

God bless. Couldn't have said it better myself

Voidgolem1 votes

the "only does damage when fields touch" bit is astoundingly unintuitive for League.

otherwise it's perfectly fine.

DEGplays1 votes

I never thought an ally would be able to sand right next to you unless they were Azir, But in all seriousness, I am one of the rare players that likes the new update to mordekaiser. His Q does incredible burst damage on the 3rd strike at max rank and his E gives a decent amount of poke with the items. The W, I think, is useful for running from (or too) a team fight... And that's it. Mordekaiser was sentenced to the bot lane due to this rework because of a useless ability.

Tannhäuser Gate1 votes

If you look at morde top, when he doesnt put any points into w until the end, he goes up to a fairly balanced 49% winrate

JedenVojak1 votes

Well, this kinda talk reminds me muchly of the Karma rework and the posts people would make after that got out.

Think about that.

MarshallBananna1 votes

Harvester of Sorrow is the duck tape of the rework, as in, it barely keeps the thing together, it ducktapes his ass to his support and it ducktapes him to bot lane.

Without getting into actual game play analysis, it's quite clear it was designed from the get go as "W - Keep morde in botlane, no matter what"

Full exp from kills <-- Obvious clause to keep him relevant botlane and ahead of the enemy carrier by sheer XP boost Require a champion target <-- Obvious clause to play duo Require a nearby champion to do damage <-- Obvious clause to make you play closely to your support

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