sona mid is considered kind of off meta / trollpick but i'm not really sure why
with thunderlords, spellthiefs, sheen, empowered q, and power chord, you can literally ONE SHOT squishies with one q + aa
why aren't you guys abusing thunderlords and spellthief as much as i am?
more fun to be a lane bully with it than to get lane bullied and whine about it
SnugglePuggle948 votesDon't listen to the rude people on her. I've done Sona mid before and it's a lot of fun. The other day I absolutely wrecked a Ziggs. But she's not that good in certain match ups, especially those that have high mobility and high safety/escape measures.
Most people don't take her mid because she's a support, and they want "real" mages, or assassins, or fighters in the mid lane that can pick of squishies and get out just as quickly.
Edit: Also don't know why the downvotes. Just trying to help the guy. Good Lord this community 0.0
Yuzuki Yukarin3 votesDon't listen to the rude people on her. I've done Sona mid before and it's a lot of fun. The other day I absolutely wrecked a Ziggs. But she's not that good in certain match ups, especially those that have high mobility and high safety/escape measures.
Most people don't take her mid because she's a support, and they want "real" mages, or assassins, or fighters in the mid lane that can pick of squishies and get out just as quickly.
Clearly you haven't seen what Slooshi did to "AP Sona"(the actual player by this name) as a Ziggs. He straight-up turret dove him, solo, multiple times post-6 and walked away with free kills every time. After about the 3rd free diving-kill, he asked his chat, "Yo, wtf does Sona even do, btw? I need someone to explain her spells."
SnugglePuggle947 votesNah I never seen it. I've beaten Kat, Akali, and lately Ziggs with her. It also just depends on the skill of the player behind her too. But most people like Sona bot lane as she uses her heal and shield more effectively.
Edit: why the downvotes? Seriously there is no reason.
Yuzuki Yukarin3 votesNah I never seen it. I've beaten Kat, Akali, and lately Ziggs with her. It also just depends on the skill of the player behind her too. But most people like Sona bot lane as she uses her heal and shield more effectively.
That's the point I'm making. AP Sona was ranked #1 best Sona player in the world at the time this happened. Despite being the best player in the world, he died 1v1, under turret, multiple times, against somebody who didn't even know Sona's kit, on Ziggs: a sub-par mid-laner. What I'm trying to say, is Sona is a shit champ. She just straight-up doesn't have a place in this game anymore.
SnugglePuggle945 votesShe is not a shit champ! She is the only one of her type that has the things she can do, so she does have a place in this game.
Yuzuki Yukarin6 votesShe is not a shit champ! She is the only one of her type that has the things she can do, so she does have a place in this game.
I'm sorry. 
You were saying?
SnugglePuggle944 votesNami and Bard are not jack of all trades like Sona is. Sona can heal (herself and one other person), shield (all people that are in it, including more than one), speed up, increase others damage, and damage more than one person, and stun more than one if she lines it up properly. Nami has a heal that can heal people twice, and speed buff and attack damage buff, with CC in her kit like her bubble, her slow on her E, and her knockup + slow on her ult. Bard has a heal, short MS buff, a stun and a Zhonya ult, and I think a slow too.
None of them are aura based like she is, hence she's the "only one of her type." Duh.
OH MAN NOT GOOD5 votes[deleted]
SnugglePuggle944 votesHe doesn't have auras. That's what I'm saying here. She's the only one that does.
Pika3106 votesHe doesn't have auras. That's what I'm saying here. She's the only one that does.
Sona doesn't use auras anymore, they were all removed in 4.13. What she does have, are single-use, temporary ACTIVES that go on cooldown after using them. An aura cannot be single-use, temporary or have a cooldown.
And don't use the excuse, "They're auras cause Rito says so." Cause last I checked: Blitz isn't listed as a support and MORDEKAISER IS LISTED AS A MARKSMAN.
Excoose meh whiel I go marksmanship sum peepel wit mah MACE.
SnugglePuggle943 votesWell my bad. I didn't join League til season 5. I didn't know. No need to downvote me for it. Good Lord. Just saying Sona is the only type of support of her kind, as in her kit is special and different from the others.
Pika3102 votesWell my bad. I didn't join League til season 5. I didn't know. No need to downvote me for it. Good Lord. Just saying Sona is the only type of support of her kind, as in her kit is special and different from the others.
Except the problem is that Sona is not the only of her kind, more like just one of three of her kind. Her kit isn't special and it's nearly identical to at least 2 other champs currently.
Time for a history lesson:
Patch 3.14, the entire support class got "reworked" which ended in nearly every support receiving nerfs without suitable compensation. As a result, this ushered in the dawn of mid-laners being played as supports as they didn't suffer those nerfs because they weren't considered supports at the time. Of the supports that took the most severe nerfs, were Taric and Sona. This directly pushed Sona out of the meta and pro players stopped playing her and began playing: NAMI She had more pre-6 CC, stronger mobility, superior sustain, greater damage and a better ult.
For a time, Nami was played as THE go-to sustain support, being specifically picked into Morgana and Janna lanes, while trying to avoid Braum. This continued until one day, a new face entered the fields of justice: BARD While to this day, people remain constantly skeptical of him, he emerged on the pro season immediately after release, even before his first round of buffs. With blatantly higher stats, a more versatile and longer-range ult and a stronger kit with potentially infinite scaling, he continues to make his appearance known on the rift in the professional scene.
Nowadays, Soraka has taken the top spot of sustain supports, but she lacks the mobility and low-cooldown single-target damage of generalist supports.
SnugglePuggle943 votesWell I think she is one of her kind because Nami and Bard don't have everything she has, and she doesn't have some of the things they have, so that makes them all different.
Like whoever said it on my hugely downvoted for no reason thread, they said that Sona is the only one of her kind because she brings a whole lot to the table, and if they delete her they would lose the teamfighting capabilities and stuff that she brought, and would have to replace that, so its in the game's interest to keep her.
That was what I was trying to say. Sona has her own unique traits and abilities that most don't have. Some are similar, but still different in their own right.
To me, the Bards I've gone against/played with, only a handful have ever been good. I don't watch the pros much, and any videos I watch are the funny streamers like brofresco. So I don't know how well Bard does, but I still think he's not that great of a champ to me. That's just my opinion though. Many people dislike Sona for the same or other reasons. Everyone has a champ they dislike.
SnugglePuggle942 votesSona doesn't have a knock up or two slows, like Nami. Sona doesn't have a Zhonya ult or a mystical journey spell, like Bard, and she's not tanky as he is either.
I said they have some things that are similar, but they all have some things that are different.
Just trying to say that. No need to go off on me for it. Good Lord.
A Wild AP Sona2 votes[{quoted}](name=Yuzuki Yukarin,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-12T21:22:28.347+0000)
That's the point I'm making. AP Sona was ranked #1 best Sona player in the world at the time this happened. Despite being the best player in the world, he died 1v1, under turret, multiple times, against somebody who didn't even know Sona's kit, on Ziggs: a sub-par mid-laner. What I'm trying to say, is Sona is a shit champ. She just straight-up doesn't have a place in this game anymore.
well to be fair I am a better sona than bakanino (ap sona) but he is a better mid sona (mostly becasue I never bothered to practice something that bad of an idea) he quit this game because mid sona is unviable so what does that tell you lol
no wave clear
no ability to burst multiple targets
no long range cc/poke
passive/frost queen make you have to choose between farming or poking which is frustrating
boots of mobility are sonas best boots by far which are turned off for 4-5 seconds your in combat so basically if you want to properly poke someone your going to have to literally miss cs for the next 3-4 seconds to activate your real speed
otherwise you will have an extremely telegraphed movement forward and get cc'd and comboed by the enemy mid laner
sona has to run scaling cdr blues which means no mr = even worse early game vs mages that c an push and bully her at turret
she also has a teamfight that relies on hiding until the fight has already started to flank their backline becasue if you just walk up your going to get jumped on and die
mid laners that have a damage graph looking like ^_ in a team fight are terrible compared to people like orianna with massive dps and wombo potential with waveclear
ap sona mid basically is gong to make your team have to 4v5 the first 6-7 seconds of the team fight which is plenty of time for the teamfight to already be decided by the time you actually get a chance to go in
support ap sona on the other hand is allowd to scale in safety by being the support and freefarm with frostfang pokes and then your team benefits from sonas massive speed/roams which is something mid cant do or you would just lose mid inhib
http://www.twitch.tv/awildapsona shameless self advertisment
Yuzuki Yukarin2 votes[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=00050001000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-13T02:49:09.515+0000)
well to be fair I am a better sona than bakanino (ap sona) but he is a better mid sona (mostly becasue I never bothered to practice something that bad of an idea) he quit this game because mid sona is unviable so what does that tell you lol
It tells me that my assessment of her situation is spot-on and that loss to Slooshi may have been a catalyst towards going the route of over 60% of pre-4.13 Sona players(namely quitting the game.)
It is true that between the two of you, you're the stronger player whereas if I recall correctly he's only something like 3rd overall-time. However, for a very long period of time, he was one of 2 of the top 4 Sonas actually willing to still play League and even then the only one willing to play ranked.
While you and Codesave seem to be back in the game again, it's pretty clear your per game averages' aren't nearly what they used to be pre-4.13, even despite struggling against the inevitable and leaning on the crutch that is Artificial Damage. It seems BD2S has just accepted she's trash and builds utility, even though it means he's literally useless to his team and he knows it.
Aeolian Melodies2 votes[{quoted}](name=Yuzuki Yukarin,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-12T21:22:28.347+0000)
That's the point I'm making. AP Sona was ranked #1 best Sona player in the world at the time this happened.
He's "the best Sona player" because he plays her mid lane, which equates to high amount of kills and CS, which are stats that lolskill values a lot when calculating "skill" - however these are 2 things support Sona does not strive to achieve. Gold gained is also a big factor in the calculations (again something that Sona does better as mid than support). The calculations are biased AF and heavily favor those who play her mid lane.
Yuzuki Yukarin2 votes[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=00050001000000000002,timestamp=2016-01-13T03:22:30.926+0000)
He's "the best Sona player" because he plays her mid lane, which equates to high amount of kills and CS, which are stats that lolskill values a lot when calculating "skill" - however these are 2 things support Sona does not strive to achieve. Gold gained is also a big factor in the calculations (again something that Sona does better as mid than support). The calculations are biased AF and heavily favor those who play her mid lane.
No, he was the best because the 2 above him weren't playing at the time. It was completely by default, nothing to do with "mid-lane" BS.
A Wild AP Sona3 votes[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=00050001000000000002,timestamp=2016-01-13T03:22:30.926+0000)
He's "the best Sona player" because he plays her mid lane, which equates to high amount of kills and CS, which are stats that lolskill values a lot when calculating "skill" - however these are 2 things support Sona does not strive to achieve. Gold gained is also a big factor in the calculations (again something that Sona does better as mid than support). The calculations are biased AF and heavily favor those who play her mid lane.
I actually have the best sona stats by a mile and I play her support :>
[{quoted}](name=Yuzuki Yukarin,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=000500010000000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-13T03:27:56.779+0000)
It tells me that my assessment of her situation is spot-on and that loss to Slooshi may have been a catalyst towards going the route of over 60% of pre-4.13 Sona players(namely quitting the game.)
It is true that between the two of you, you're the stronger player whereas if I recall correctly he's only something like 3rd overall-time. However, for a very long period of time, he was one of 2 of the top 4 Sonas actually willing to still play League and even then the only one willing to play ranked.
While you and Codesave seem to be back in the game again, it's pretty clear your per game averages' aren't what they used to be, even despite struggling against the inevitable and leaning on the crutch that is Artificial Damage. It seems BD2S has just accepted she's trash and builds utility, even though it means he's literally useless to his team and he knows it.
its true that sona isnt as strong as she used to be but frost queen/s6 masteries have made her viable again at least its just very difficult to win lane at times/not die vs really smart people playing op laners
Yuzuki Yukarin1 votes[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=000500010000000000020001,timestamp=2016-01-13T03:32:11.450+0000)
its true that sona isnt as strong as she used to be but frost queen/s6 masteries have made her viable again at least its just very difficult to win lane at times/not die vs really smart people playing op laners
This logic is only debatable at best. It's not like these are things solely unique to her. FQC is being spammed by every mage and their mother, while LoL itself has literally become League of 10 Thunderlords. I could just as easily say Yorick is better cause 1 ghost can trigger TD or Zyra can now be mid cause she can use both. That doesn't necessarily make it true and as these things are being phased out, so too is that excuse.
If a champ's viability is directly connected to a niche interaction and can't function without that, there's an inherent underlying problem at the source. This is why Lich Bane was initially nerfed and countless champs' scalings buffed in turn, you yourself have noted this on several occasions. You should know better than anyone how flimsy that argument is and you'll be the first to throw it away once patch 6.1 hits Live.
A Wild AP Sona2 votes[{quoted}](name=Yuzuki Yukarin,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=0005000100000000000200010000,timestamp=2016-01-13T03:55:15.860+0000)
This logic is only debatable at best. It's not like these are things solely unique to her. FQC is being spammed by ever mage and their mother, while LoL itself has literally become League of 10 Thunderlords. I could just as easily say Yorick is better cause 1 ghost can trigger TD or Zyra can now be mid cause she can use both. That doesn't necessarily make it true and as these things are being phased out, so too is that excuse.
If a champ's viability is directly connected to a niche interaction and can't function without that, there's an inherent underlying problem at the source. This is why Lich Bane was initially nerfed and countless champs' scalings buffed in turn, you yourself have noted this on several occasions. You should know better than anyone how flimsy that argument is and you'll be the first to throw it away once patch 6.1 hits Live.
yeah sona by herself is an awful champion I just meant that if you compare the s6 frost queen/mastery sona to the sona from about 10 months ago she is 100x more viable and you feel more "in control" of the game
at least for the first time post DFG removal you can actually burst people now
Yuzuki Yukarin2 votes[{quoted}](name=A Wild AP Sona,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=00050001000000000002000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-13T03:57:54.710+0000)
yeah sona by herself is an awful champion I just meant that if you compare the s6 frost queen/mastery sona to the sona from about 10 months ago she is 100x more viable and you feel more "in control" of the game
at least for the first time post DFG removal you can actually burst people now
For as short-lived as this is though. As I already mentioned, patch 6.1 is NOT kind to her and brings yet more indirect nerfs.
With the FQC nerfs:
With the Ferocity buffs and Precision nerf:
Who knows though, maybe Meddler will see her these indirect nerfs and raise her some direct ones of his own, as he's already threatened. If we're lucky, this'll cause a few bleating sheep to take off their blinders and realize what the players of yesteryear already knew.
Sona Ping1 votes"ye, like I saw a game where some player beat another player once, and he kept beating him in that game because that's how league works, and then he embarassed himself in chat like a jackass. TOTAL PROOF BTFO"
What the hell is wrong with you?
Yuzuki Yukarin5 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=000500010001,timestamp=2016-01-13T11:31:36.160+0000)
"ye, like I saw a game where some player beat another player once, and he kept beating him in that game because that's how league works, and then he embarassed himself in chat like a jackass. TOTAL PROOF BTFO"
What the hell is wrong with you?
There's nothing wrong with me. This is the exact game that I'm talking about:
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com//en/#match-details/NA1/1815187849/32974459?tab=overview
Or did you honestly think I wouldn't be able to find it? I don't have to make shit up, now sit down and learn what "respect" means the hard way.
Sona Ping2 votesWhat? How... How on earth did you come to the conclusion that what I wrote had anything, anything, to do with an accusation of making things up?
Someone is just talking about an unconventional pick they like and you are reacting like this?
What the serious hell is wrong with you?!
Hupsis7 votesNo waveclear. Expect to be pushed under your own tower constantly.
shyv2 votesfarm is for NOOBS
DeathBurst4 votesSomeone answers your post's question and you dismiss it? Probably not the right behavior...
shyv5 votesi was kidding obviously i'm not stupid enough to think farm isn't important
Pika3105 votesCause Sona in general hasn't been playable since patch 4.13 gutted her. Even before that, she still wasn't good in mid.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Sona%20Meme%205_zpsgkvbmml9.jpg
shyv3 votesno doubt there are stronger champs, but i find her fun to play against lanes where i know i'm safe. had an eve mid the other day, and then a diana, both of them being melee i was pretty much completely safe. diana could ult me but i would ult her back and burst her before she had a chance to do anything. i'm not happy about the sona nerfs but she's always been one of the most fun champs to play imo, and i have the cute arcade skin, so i don't care if she's statistically bad.
Zero Skill Tank6 votesIf I do maths correctly, Sona's burst at lvl 6 is roughly 550 + 150%AP, Diana's effective HP against magic damage dealer at 6 is about 1500, depending on stuff. There's no bursting down unless she jumps on you being very low, or I missed something crucial.
shyv3 voteswhat you missed: first time diana, bronze, bad
Zero Skill Tank6 votesThan you should understand by yourself that this match says nothing about how good Sona actually is on mid.
shyv4 votesyall are so annoying im playing blind norms and having fun wrecking bad people with sona. there is nothing here that needs to be overanalyzed the way u are doing it.
Zero Skill Tank7 votesYou asked us why we consider mid Sona a trollpick/offmeta. Wrecking bad people in normals is something you often do with trollpicks and offmeta champs.
Zero Skill Tank4 votesBecause in typical game a team doesn't want 1/4 of available gold being taken by a mage who can't push the lane nicely.
Soulstealer Ezreal can obliterate multiple squishies, and it barely makes up for his poor shove.
Reaper Soraka2 votes[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2tNhNF4M,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-01-12T20:46:30.994+0000)
why aren't you guys abusing thunderlords and spellthief as much as i am?
Ha.
Seriously though, her waveclear is rough, especially when it's an enemy zed 100% of the time. It doesn't feel that great to be 1k gold behind your enemy, but still have an equal KDA of 0-0-0
DeathBurst1 votesA few reasons it's off-meta:
===> You will probably be pushed under tower and be under-farmed, you can poke, but you can't really fight, you just hit Q then back, and it's hard to actually get a kill 1v1. And once teams start to group up, if there isn't another source of magic damage in your team, you'll be screwed.
That being said, it's "just" off-meta and not a complete troll pick. In the right team comp, it can be very effective. Think Jana support, Ezreal ADC, Nidalee Jungle, Mundo top, and you have an horrible poke comp, with a lot of sustain and disengage possibilities, and a good mix of damages (maybe a bit too much magic damage, but still a decent amount of AD with Ez and Mundo in melee range).
MissMikasa2 votesThe thing she has over other mid laners is that she can heal the poke back up that she receives and then bam hit them back. Just watching Brofresco play her against the disgustingly OP Zed on youtube, he's getting poked down a lot but he's also hitting Zed back, and he's trying to freeze the lane buy last hitting the farm. He does get the better hand though and is able to kill him.
I do agree, her csing is awful just like any mage because their AA animations suck and they can't spend too much mana wave clearing with spells like Zed and other energy users who can just farm it up like they are the king of CS.
She can spam her Q to get people to thing twice about going all in on her, and if she's whittled them down a bit, if they try anything, she can just heal and move back to turret, or if she's 6 she can ult and possibly get a kill.
DeathBurst2 votesWhat she has over other mid laners is crazy team utility in late game: AoE shield, AoE aa buff, AoE MS buff, strong initiation or counter-engage, single target damage de-buff or slow depending on the situation. The self-heal just makes laning phase tolerable, it lets you survive, but the laning phase is the worst part of Sona mid.
MissMikasa2 votesBy going full AP mid, her heal is stronger, and it can do wonders in a pinch. One time I was getting ganked and I killed the laner I was against. Their Wu jungler dived me under the turret and I was able to heal, Q, and kill him too.
A Wild AP Sona1 votesThe thing she has over other mid laners is that she can heal the poke back up that she receives and then bam hit them back. Just watching Brofresco play her against the disgustingly OP Zed on youtube, he's getting poked down a lot but he's also hitting Zed back, and he's trying to freeze the lane buy last hitting the farm. He does get the better hand though and is able to kill him.
I do agree, her csing is awful just like any mage because their AA animations suck and they can't spend too much mana wave clearing with spells like Zed and other energy users who can just farm it up like they are the king of CS.
She can spam her Q to get people to thing twice about going all in on her, and if she's whittled them down a bit, if they try anything, she can just heal and move back to turret, or if she's 6 she can ult and possibly get a kill.
are you aware that sona has to spend 400 mana to heal for 150hp? lol
Aeolian Melodies2 votesI do agree, her csing is awful just like any mage because their AA animations suck and they can't spend too much mana wave clearing with spells like Zed and other energy users who can just farm it up like they are the king of CS.
She can spam her Q to get people to thing twice about going all in on her, and if she's whittled them down a bit, if they try anything, she can just heal and move back to turret, or if she's 6 she can ult and possibly get a kill.
MissMikasa1 votesHere is the video. Brofresco actually almost kills Zed 1 v 1 at level 6 but he also almost died, but he had his heal.
Abyssphere1 votesHere is the video. Brofresco actually almost kills Zed 1 v 1 at level 6 but he also almost died, but he had his heal.
Brofresco videos don't mean anything. He arranges customs where all of his enemies are unranked, Bronze or Silver while everyone on his team is Plat/Diamond. Almost killing (and almost dying to) a Bronze Zed doesn't show champion viability.
Abyssphere2 votesHere is the video. Brofresco actually almost kills Zed 1 v 1 at level 6 but he also almost died, but he had his heal.
Brofresco videos don't mean anything. He arranges customs where all of his enemies are unranked, Bronze or Silver while everyone on his team is Plat/Diamond. Almost killing (and almost dying to) a Bronze Zed doesn't show champion viability.
MissMikasa2 votesYes they do mean that Sona can be a mid lane player. And you can't just assume that he arranges the teams that way.
DeathBurst1 votesI trust Solwolf much more than Brofresco. Especially about Sona. And in this particular video, Zed is just bad, it proves nothing.
He plays 10 times too careful, and miss a large number of skillshots. He just exchanges poke, when he should go for longer trades, since once Sona has used her blue, she can't do anything more. And he should just shove the lane repeatedly, he's not even pushing up to her tower.
I said in my original comment, and I stand by it, that Sona can be viable mid under the right circumstances. I don't need convincing, I don't know why you replied to my comment, and I actually play Sona mid once in a while myself. But fighting a Zed is definitely not the right circumstances...
MissMikasa1 votesJust trying to show that she can fight against a Zed although that particular player doesn't do well. Whatever, just making conversation.
