How Mordekaiser's ultimate ability could be changed in order to make him a healthier champion

Malicious Metal··51 votes·3,616 views

Ah yes, Children of the Grave. One of Mordekaiser's most iconic abilities and probably one of the most powerful spells in the entire game.

Having the power to completely turn the tides of battle by just clicking once (fool!) and just turn the game into a 6v4. It is both thematically fitting for Mordekaiser to enslave his enemies to do his bidding and it goes well with the "Carry" nature of his design where Morde just wants to annihilate the opposition.

Yet this spell is a design disaster. It is extremely powerful and takes up a lot of Mordekaiser's power budget, making him feel not really like a champion without having a clone around to do the dirty work for him. It's both one hell of an awesome ability and still a shackle that keeps Mordekaiser's design from ever be deemed healthy for the game.

The ability to outright STEAL an enemy champion and even beef it up with Morde's stats is huge and does not exist in any other shape or form in this game. And yet it's an ability that inevitably has to change in his VGU so that he can be a healthy addition to the game.

It being so heavily linked to the core of his character and thematically fitting him to a tee makes it hard to come up with something fit to replace this iconic ability.

But that doesn't mean there aren't ways to do so.


https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/8/83/Nazgul_attack.gif/revision/latest?cb=20161029090932

Reworked: Children of the Grave (There are other Metal references that could be used as its name, I.E. Maiden's "Children of the Damned" or the band "Graveborn")

Active: Mordekaiser targets an enemy champion unit (Alive or Dead) and designates a circular AoE around the target as his ritual circle. After a brief delay of 0.5-1 seconds 2/3/4 of Mordekaiser's soul-bound Liches rise from the ground, dealing % Max Hp in an AoE and healing Mordekaiser for the damage dealt before fully phasing into existence.

These wraiths scale DIRECTLY off Mordekaiser's own stats, their offensive capabilities scaling off Mord's total AD and AP whereas their defensive properties depend on Mord's maximum HP and resistances.

Reactivating R commands these ghastly Specters to attack enemy units as they remain controllable for 50/75/100 seconds

Using R on an allied unit (Morde or any other allied champion) makes these Liches "guard" its host, slowly regaining health out of combat and following their "ally" around.

Enemy champions that die during the time these Liches are active makes them join their ranks, adding another specter to Mordekaiser's army that retains the cursed enemy champion's innate. Casting Children of the Grave on a deceased enemy champion instantly raises that slain enemy from the dead.

Additionally using R on the Dragon calls forth a deathly Draconic wraith for half the duration.


But why this? Well, first of all this would completely eliminate Morde's reliance on actually killing an enemy champion to access his ultimate while also making it a lot less hit or miss in terms of the actual clone. Currently you almost always want to get an ADC clone but with this change the risen specter scales off Mord's stats, making it less about winning a fight off a fed enemy and more about Morde's own strength.

Additionally it introduces another threat range to Morde as dying near him will inevitably fill his ranks with more specters to fight for him.

It only being casted around enemy champions and potentially the dragon makes him unable to just drop R and push down lanes as a split pusher but rather gives him the tools to actually be a team fighting threat as he'll still very much be a Juggernaut. Wanting to be enabled by his team to just destroy the enemy and relying on the enemy to engage on his terms to make the most use of his still very telegraphed approach to a fight.

Unlike Yorick and Azir's niche, these units are not actual cannon fodder but are extremely powerful units that fight alongside Morde. He does not sit back and command but rather rides into battle with an army of the dead at his back.

It would still retain Mordekaiser's theme of Enslavement but also includes some of his lore as his resurrection and conquest over valerian is heavily interlinked with his soul-bound Liches and turning enemies into enslaved thralls.


Thoughts? Concerns? What do you think would have to be changed in order to make Mordekaiser a healthier champion?

48 Comments

Goodnight Nunu42 votes

Only if he gets a quote where he goes all like "One ring to rule them all" when buying item 1082

Sahn Uzal8 votes

Fuck yea

Jacknife11 votes

Now see this is an ultimate I can get behind. I don't really enjoy morde's current play pattern, and this would at least enable him to be a relative threat in all areas of the map all the time, not just in niche "dragon's up" or "pocket support" scenarios.

As far a criticism, could you make it clear how many lich's morde can have at one time? You say 2-4, but is that just on activation, or can he get more as enemies die? Can the dragon wraith be added to that number, or is he all by himself? Other than that maybe tone down how long the wraiths can be out, 100 seconds is a long fucking time. If they're out that long he'll inevitably be balanced around the wraiths, or they'll be so easy to get rid of they might as well not even be there.

Malicious Metal5 votes

Thanks for the criticism, a single mind can't cook up a perfect idea anyways! I've been discussing this on a Rework discord of mine in more detail but the amount of wraiths spawned on cast is 2/3/4 depending on the rank of Morde's r.

Now, for the maximum amount of wraiths we were arguing whether it should be just one, or limitless. With the former being what most agreed on. Additional champion kills would just extend the Wratih's lifespan so it would just be a maximum of 3/4/5 wraiths at once.

And for Dragon I think I specified that he cannot raise any more wraiths while it is active.

Yeah, I think the base lifetime needs to be toned down. Currently on live it's 45/60/75

Bob the Toastr1 votes

I think half is pretty short for the dragon. 25 seconds isn't that long. Even if you took it straight to the botlane tower, that would take like half of it's lifetime, not counting how long it would take you to push the wave up to the tower.

Almighty7 votes

Honestly, when Riot remembers Morde exists and decide to rework him, they should invite you to the HQ and have you direct the rework. Never have i seen a more dedicated main.

[vlad-salute] http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

kasfas5 votes

Isn't that a lot like yorick's ult?

Could you define the major differences for me?

Malicious Metal6 votes

Mordekaiser is in total control of the Wraiths whereas Yorick is just a shepherd of souls. Additionally Morde gets a % Max HP Aoe leech on summon.

Unlike the Maiden he does not just passively spawn ghouls either and is only limited to champions joining his Liches' ranks. Plus the soul to join the others is going to keep innates like Vayne's silver bolts, keeping at least some resemblance to Morde's current "clone".

PB4UAME12 votes

So, its almost across the board better than Yorick's ult, and there are 2-5 of them?

Does % max hp based damage (the literal best type of damage, which also scales independently of you, off of your opponent's stats) in an AoE and heals Morde, can be controlled by him, there are more of them, he can create additional ones from his enemies stealing effects and passives from them, they can guard other champions, and from what you were describing, unlike Yorick's summons these are "extremely powerful units" in addition to potentially being 5 times as many as Maiden, with their burst, with a heal, and with them being fully controllable. . .

Yeah, fuck that.

I thought the purpose of this suggestion was to improve the balance of Morde, yes? There is no way in hell what you are describing would be balanced. That's almost an entire champions kit worth of power you are talking about there. Turning teamfights from 5 v 5s into a, what? 10 vs 4? With an AoE % max hp nuke, and a burst heal? And you want them to keep passives and effects from the enemy too?

Maybe take a step back, and look at this in the context of the game of League of Legends. What "extremely powerful" summons are there even? I would argue there are about three of them, and all are individual ultimates that can each be controlled far less than what you are describing they are Maiden, Tibbers, and Daisy. They do not have anywhere near the level of extra effects you are talking about here, and there are only 20% as much of them, despite occupying the same slot of ultimate ability for their respective champions. I could see 1 unit like you are mentioning, or multiple of them that you cannot control, without the AoE burst or the heal, but you are asking for far too much. You want your cake, some pie, some cookies, maybe even a brownie-- oh, and to eat it all too.

ModWulf Helhammer4 votes

You somehow got downvotes for pointing out how hilariously broken this concept would be.

For all the clamoring, people really don't want balance.

Sahn Uzal5 votes

I'm so fucking onboard with this. You already knew this from Discord, but oh well.

wether or not numbers are fine, one potential concern could be the scaling.

These wraiths scale DIRECTLY off Mordekaiser's own stats, their offensive capabilities scaling off Mord's total AD and AP whereas their defensive properties depend on Mord's maximum HP and resistances.

The fact that their defensive stats scale off Mordekaiser's could mean they get blown up too easily if Morde goes for a Damage heavy build, or he becomes pretty feast or famine in the sense that his ultimate is hard to Kill and Scary damagewise, or doesn't hurt that much and just dies quickly if he's behind.

Having it's Damage scale off Mordekaiser but the defensive stats being base stats could be a better idea.

Jacknife1 votes

I don't think the wraiths would work out well without some base numbers put into offense and defense, as having them bank entirely off the players stats would make them feast or famine either way.

Also I had a thought. What if you could control the wraiths after death? I mean that seems like a thing for Mordekaiser , or am I going into Annie/tibbers territory?

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Might feel like you're not being properly rewarded for killing Mordekaiser, since he should already be quite a pain to take down, with him being a Juggernaut and all, but it could be pretty neat.

Mordepool4 votes

I'd run that Ult

Teridax683 votes

What about this:

R - Children of the Grave: Any champion taken down by Mordekaiser (kill or assist) leave their soul behind for a few seconds. Mordekaiser can then cast Children of the Grave on the soul to raise a Lich who fights by his side. The Lich always has the same model, range, base health, base attack damage and movement speed, scaling with the fallen enemy's level, gaining bonus health based on Mordekaiser's health, dealing bonus damage on his basic attacks based on Mordekaiser's AP, and healing him for a portion of the damage dealt. The Lich's attacks deal magic damage, and do not apply on-hit effects.

That way, Morde would still get to summon a ghost slave to fight for him, except this minion would be much more consistent, and wouldn't be so dependent on him outright killing a target. You'd still get to turn the tables if you manage to kill an enemy who's ahead, but the ability would scale with champions much better, in that you wouldn't have to account for the particularities of their kit. Removing the point-and-click DoT/HoT would mean more power could be given to Morde's elsewhere, including his baseline sustain or the Lich's healing as needed, and removing the initial target commitment means Morde isn't screwed if his victim runs away, as he could always pick another target.

Fairyfleur3 votes

Morde right now just feels so bad to play against. He flashes on top of you, clicks on you with his spells and actives, and walks away with your soul.

If he's behind he just gets obliterated before he gets into range; or he gets ahead and 100 to zeroes you with his rotation.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

This is hilariously broken imo.

First off, this is extremely versatile. You get to make dudes, do a ton of AoE damage, and heal Morde. By itself, it sounds ok minus making dudes. Basically an instant Vlad ult and no damage amp but portrays Necromancy great. But then, the dudes you make are apparently really strong too, and they can attack enemies or defend allies. And then, you make MORE dudes, just for enemies dying near Morde for a really long time. Like a really long time. And then the dudes who spawn from enemies have the enemies passive so some dudes have a passive and some don't, and some passives are useless or OP on them (Ahri passive and Darius passive respectively, for example). I don't know if casting on a dead enemy champion just makes dudes instantly or is like Morde's current R but it's just gravy at this point. And then you get to keep the Dragon ghost for some reason as a cherry on top.

This is just way too much packed into one ultimate and is just a win more ult since the dudes scale off of Morde's stats.

And then the mechanical issues of having to make an enemy champ targetable while dead.

just like, YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wtf MM. This is redonkulous.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I'm...confused. How does the champion joining the Wraiths work? Do they permanently join it, increasing the total number of Wraiths? Do they only join it for the duration? Do they replace one of the Wraiths?

My other concern is that it sounds pathetically weak on allies. Unless they, say, work like Pix does for Lulu, and assist with their autos (in which case, they might not be too bad).

Malicious Metal3 votes

Well, they can intercept skill shots for one and regen their own HP. Besides, Morde isn't known to support his team, these Wraiths are more about damage than anything else.

Mister Support2 votes

Few questions for detail purposes:

Ideally, would you want the base liches to be ranged, melee, or a very between them? (such as one melee heavy hitter, one ranged hitter, and one that works more on skillshots based on where target is)

Does the cast on dragon still require the dragon to die by Morde to gain the pet? The wording around there was vague.

Would the liches have any utility to them or just be extra damage through targeted attacks? I feel like simply having them just be there for extra damage only through basic attacks of the liches would make their power either be really useful or not useful at all and still be something holding too much power from Morde's kit.

Malicious Metal2 votes

They'd be "ranged" with a 350 AA range and are all of the same kind to avoid confusion.

The dragon still has to die for Mordekaiser to gain control of its wraith.

They do have SOME utility, I'm unsure though on the exact details. What I do know is that it'll be a "three-hit" kind of deal that does not offer instant power.

Either a MR shred to help Mord's damage output or a stacking slow to help him stay in range of his enemies.

DeadUnborn4 votes

Keep in mind you are still playing a 5v5 game. What you are suggesting is super busted. That ult would essentially be adding a tank to your team that can peel allies and add an AP damage amplifier for the mages on your team.

As I mentioned in another reply, you are also not considering the other added benefits of having so many controllable powerfull pets at your disposal: You can use them to tank turrets with a small minion wave and wreck it, You can use them to do Baron and Herald extremely fast at early stages of the game. you can use them to flank an ADC and zone him out of a fight with little repercussion or risk on your part. There is a reason you can't directly micromanage the Maiden of the Mist

Mister Support1 votes

Hmm...on the idea of helping Morde stick to his targets, what about basic attacks from the Liches giving enemies a debuff that speeds up Morde when walking towards them? (kinda like his current W, would also give this effect but amped when the Liches are following an ally)

Yoinked Your Ult2 votes

No offense but it sounds kind of boring. Having the enemy champion on your team is what makes morde fun. Either they need to find a way to balance it or not bother altogether. Just drop the whole dragon gimmick(I love it but that one has to go) and give him power elsewhere. Edit: They could do it like Morphlings ultimate from dota. Just summon a weaker copy of the enemy champion.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

The problem with this ult is the same I see with the likes of Yorick. It's a very powerful ult, but it forces a lot of burden on the enemy team. Who do you target; the tanky damage dealer currently trying to run you down, or the powerful minion that's enabling a lot of the champ's damage, and is just strong enough that in the process of taking it down, the enemy champion will take you down anyways.

That's honestly what I hate about fighting Yorick; his Shadow Maiden makes him so strong, but trying to focus it down just puts you in a world of hurt anyways. And I feel like this ultimate would arguably be an even more aggravating version of that.

Meep Man1 votes

I feel like you would hate any champion that has a minion/pet with lasting power then. Hate to see you play against Heimerdinger.

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

Heimerdinger's old turrets, when he had his realth regen passive? Yeah, those made me wanna pull my hair out. Now, you can at least poke them down over time. Plus, Heimerdinger's turrets are stationary, meaning they can't follow you or be directed to follow you, and Heimerdinger can't chase without giving up a lot of his power.

Annie's Tibbers, I hate for reasons not actually related to the bear itself. I hate the "instant AoE stun + burst after which she drops her other point-and-click spells to kill you". If anything I feel like Tibbers is underwhelming past the insta-stun, and if they removed that he could stand to be something more interesting.

Ivern.... nah, Daisy's pretty alright. Not hugely damaging, but she's something you have to be aware of and can play around. Ivern I dislike purely for his shield having the guaranteed burst, regardless of if you pop it or not. That's just not fair in my opinion.

Elikain2 votes

Your idea of Morde's R reminds me of Xul's (from HotS) ult where he can summon a wall of Liches that shoot ranged slowing attacks at enemies and essentially block a path.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

I think it's a bit of a character clash for Mordekaiser to support an ally, not to mention out of class with Juggs. I also think it's stepping on Yorick's flavor as well. I don't picture Morde signalling in for back up, I see him taking charge of the situation via less, er, peaceful means.

Look at the lore we have for Mordekaiser when he fights that Paladin guy. Doesn't feel right for him to be fighting and then be like "Yo let me whip out my pocket squad" to win.

DeadUnborn1 votes

That is just Yorick's Ult with extra steps

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Eh, Yorick's ult is quite different IMO. There's bound to be some overlap since these champions share the Necromancer niche, the main difference is that Yorick raises corpes and doesn't really have direct controll over his Mistwankers/the mist. He can merely lead the mindless horde in a direction.

Mordekaiser on the other hand rips out one's soul and enslaves it, he directly forces one's soul to do his bidding.

Just my 10 cents on the matter.

DeadUnborn1 votes

IMO having so many pets on the playing field at the same time is not the right direction for the game. What Metal is proposing is just a straight up better version of Yorick's Ult. One time I went as a premade group of four that was doing a pet comp. They had Ivern jungle, Annie mid and Yorick Top. I was playing Rek Sai and let me tell you, fighting so many pets at the same time was extremely overbearing, especially because my W made me nearsighted. It was utter chaos and I could barely tell what was going on during teamfights -- I'm D5 btw.

Micromanaging 2-4 pets would be busted. You can use them to tank turrets with a small minion wave and wreck it, You can use them to do Baron and Herald extremely fast at early stages of the game. you can use them to flank and ADC and zone him out of a fight with little repercussion or risk on your part. There is a reason you can't directly micromanage the Maiden of the Mist

Sahn Uzal1 votes

What is Yorick ult but a DPS annie ult? What is Ivern ult but a CC annie ult?

I'm not saying micromanaging 2-4 pets would be a good or even do-able idea, but I don't like these ''X is Y champion Z ability'' comments, champions are gonna have similarities in some abilities, especially champions like Mordekaiser and Yorick who share the nice of being a Necromancer. (or Death Knight, if you will in Morde's case.)

But yea, the concept should propably be taken back to the drawing board. This thread has given a lot of good feedback on different matters. The OP of the thread agrees with that aswell.

DeadUnborn1 votes

They are actually VERY different in how you use them.

You use Tibbers mainly for the burst damage and AoE CC. Afterwards it becomes a zoning tool

Daisy I will grant you is the most similar to Tibbers. However it is a lot more focused on Zoning and PRolonged disruption rather than damage

The Maiden is completely different, however, since you can't directly control her. She is a lot more focused on splitpushing and prolonged skirmishes.

I will grant you the Ult Metal is proposing is actually more alike to Daisy than it would be to the Maiden in execution. However because he was talking about having various pets and them dealing ranged DPS damage I also drew the parallels of it being a better Yorick ult since you essentially would have multiple controllable Maidens of the Mist

Squey1 votes

hopefully they rework him soon. No one likes versing morde and morde players often complain about there champ not feeling like a real champion. Despite him being fairly effective in solo que, he isnt healthy game play wise so minimal work can be done on him. He still is probably the most unclear champion in terms of what he is and what he is supposed to be. He feels like a battle mage, plays more like a gangplank then anyone, and yet looks like a tank/bruiser.
Realistically he probably will be changed majorly. The problem is Riots biggest reworks are usually there worst when it comes to satisfying previous players of the champion. Like galio, he was an anti magic damage mage, and they changed him into an over tuned full tank. They are trying to make him have the option of being a tank or anti ap mage but its breaking there game. Really what they should have done for galio, and what they should do for morde, is split the champion in 2. Your proposed change to morde ult does little but meld him with yorick. Maybe your pulling from his lore but most of the time the lore changes with reworks as big as the one he needs. Figureing out what kind of champion morde should be, and what parts of morde should be shelved for future champion development is something current morde players might want to figure out before riot figures it out on there own without your imput.

Raiyza1 votes

It would entirely depend on how the liches attack. If they are uncontrollable, how fast would they move? How is their DPS?

I also think having 4 of them spawn at level 16 might be too much. That's sort of 9vs5. Morde would have to sacrifice something.

Just my thoughts. I'm not a morde player, so I don't have much else.

Kudos to you for being so dedicated to morde though!

rtbf2256182411 votes

It is also extremely hard to control and assess it's damage to kill an enemy with. Just pointing that out.

Potchikir1 votes

Morde needs a full vgu

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This is a fantastic idea! Thank you for proposing such awesome ideas to improve the game! :D

Salson1 votes

Sounds awesome, but that's not an ult, that's a whole kit.

I'd like to see the whole kit for this though.

Knalxz1 votes

But...his ult already gives him health.

ChaosThief1 votes

I'd love to lean towards the "control an enemy" fantasy personally, but of course that's probably why it's so difficult to balance. Either it's stupidly hard to deal with, or pretty much worthless. You could add in complicated controls and basically allow for a player to control two champions at once, but that would probably feel really bad to play as all things considered.

Maybe something like: Mordekaiser curses an enemy, dealing a % of their maximum health over X seconds. If the target dies, Mordekaiser uses their soul as power for a short time, granting him a shield based on the target's maximum health and increasing his AD/AP based on the target's. He also heals for a portion of the target's maximum health when they die.

I feel as if Mordekaiser wouldn't send weak things like liches (at least weak in his eyes) to kill his enemies; he would either do it himself, or just to spite someone, make an enemy kill his friends. Probably one of the most difficult ultimates to balance between gameplay and lore, most likely, because lore wise it should be an incredibly powerful thing, so powerful that in game it would have to feel incredibly lackluster to be balanced.

TL:DR; I would prefer something closer to "control an enemy" rather than control minions, and I think Mordekaiser in his lore wouldn't use liches because of what he is.

TheDerpyChicken1 votes

Upvote for cool idea and Ringwraiths/Nazgul.

NTrumpWeTrust1 votes

Needs a complete overhaul. He is so outdated it hurts

larejaredhellTP1 votes

Very nice another Ryze rework?

Jòseph Joestar1 votes

morde isnt healthy right now at all, since ive started playing in season 5 morde has never been healthy i dont think he will ever be healthy i think his exsistance is just a meme now

PaffWasTaken1 votes

Would be interesting, but I don't feel like this ability could be at its full potential as of Morde's present kit. Yes, his W would do great with those liches, but I feel like the rest of his kit along with this ult would make him like a more mage-y version of Yorick , making him an unstoppable (in theory) pushing machine who only gets stronger as he kills more and more while he controls a litteral army. Even if this sounds cool, I feel like he would need some more identity (maybe some more interaction with his metal shield? I always felt like this mechanic isn't what it should be since his rework).

TL;DR, definitely something I would like to see with Morde, but I would like some tweaking on his base kit along with this to make it even more interesting

Khâmul1 votes

These changes will indeed make Morde a healthier champion because he will drain everyone ,thus giving him more health.. won't really be healthy for the game aha.

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