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The risk/reward on Jinx minigun is trash now. One game is enough for me to drop her.

Bern··5 votes·2,370 views

There's very little reason to use it over the safety of rockets until like L12 unless it's a 1v1, and even then, you'll probably lose the 1v1 because other people have steroids that don't need time to stack, and your steroid stacks to about what their steroid's base AS gives -them- at that level because of the nerfs and how outright bad Jinx's base AS is. (Fully stacked minigun at level 9 with greaves and the runepage I was using was around 1.44 AS, which is legitimately terrible. You can think of the time to stack as a cast time, in a sense, and a two auto cast time to get to 1.44 AS when other champions can do close as well instantly by hitting a button is a joke, especially when they don't even max their steroid first. Who cares if minigun's steroid doesn't wear off if the steroids minigun is being compared to last long enough for them to kill you? The only autos that matter are the ones you get off.)

Let's actually take the time to compare Graves and Jinx on this. At level 9, with fully stacked minigun and maxed q, I was getting around 1.44 AS with greaves and no other AS items. At level 9 with the same items, Graves can hit his steroid (which, mind you, -is also a dash-) and will instantly get 1.27 AS with no stacking time. (I just checked this in a custom). This is with 2 points in his steroid. Jinx is getting 95% AS from minigun at this level. Graves is getting -40%- AS from Quickdraw at this level. And Graves probably is going to match Jinx's first two autos and not be that far behind once minigun is revved. This is a fucking joke.

I'll be blunt: I've played at least 200 Jinx games. I'm not happy. The champion is bad. Her midgame is way too trash for the payoff. I'm just going to play Tristana instead. Why play Jinx when I can play a champion that does the vast majority of what Jinx used to do better than Jinx does now?

I'm not normally one to make topics like this, but this is the first time Riot's screwed a champion I play so badly. I'm really disappointed.

24 Comments

Drunk Rummate6 votes

Little reason to use it?

Except that it... still provides a reasonable attack speed boost and it doesn't cost mana?

Okay.

Bern2 votes

{quoted}

Little reason to use it?

Except that it... still provides a reasonable attack speed boost and it doesn't cost mana?

Okay.

If you like autoing things at 525 range with no escape or reposition in League of Gapclosers, be my guest. You can see as many grey screens as you'd like.

Brotha5 votes

ITT: Freelo abuser crying he freelo was balanced

CreationFlaw4 votes

Fuck off, OP. Like for real, you're comparing a temporary with a permanent as long as you're farming in lane. Not to mention, 525 isn't bad considering she gains 100+ range when she switches, which only takes a second and can be toggled permanently, except mana OP. Kog'maw starts with 500 and has one of the shittiest early games ever, and his W doesn't even ramp up that much until level 5.

Bern1 votes

{quoted}

Fuck off, OP. Like for real, you're comparing a temporary with a permanent as long as you're farming in lane. Not to mention, 525 isn't bad considering she gains 100+ range when she switches, which only takes a second and can be toggled permanently, except mana OP. Kog'maw starts with 500 and has one of the shittiest early games ever, and his W doesn't even ramp up that much until level 5.

Yeah, and guess what? Kog gets %hp damage on his steroid in exchange, which is something Jinx does not. And furthermore, all of Jinx's damage sources other than AAs are on heavy delays, making them easy to dodge or ignore in a lot of cases. Ult is less reactable, yes, but highly flashable, and you only get one chance. Meanwhile, Living Artillery is pretty easy to dodge but is up constantly, and his other skillshots do things like shred armor and have much shorter cast delays than zap.

Rain NT4 votes

As far as I know, everyone is glad she is balanced now lol. Even the jinx players I know are glad knowing that she was too strong. Like think about it she has a high win rate in soloque in the world and has a high win rate in COMPETITIVE scene in the world. If that doesnt scream op to you nothing will honestly lol. Coordinated teams or uncoordinated in soloque, either way she has a high win rate and needed a nerf even though she has no escape EXCEPT for when she gets a kill. Honestly I think her passive needs to go instead of her AS, and not sure if that would be even more of a nerf or not, having a reset champ would make any champ op (yi in lower division, kat lately, akali R was a bit last season, kha 2 seasons ago)

SexyTaylorSwift3 votes

Good. That 33% pick rate and 55% win rate had to go. Sorry that you can't play your freelo no more. Not.

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

{quoted}

Good. That 33% pick rate and 55% win rate had to go. Sorry that you can't play your freelo no more. Not.

You fed as caitlyn vs Vayne in bronze mmr :/.

You should probably spend less time crying about Jinx, and more on wtf you're doing. You'd suddenly realize Jinx really isn't all that strong. She's THE EASIEST adc to dumpster on with almost 0 consequence.

SexyTaylorSwift4 votes

Well, let's see. I'm honestly not sure what game you're even talking about. If you are talking about the game that I won, but went 5-8-14 as feeding (>2 kda is now feeding?) I will tell you that I wasn't even against Vayne. I was top and Karma + Kayle were bot lane. It's amazing, with the amount of time you spent creeping on my match history, which in no way whatsoever changes the pick/ban/win rate of Jinx, I would have thought you were at least be intelligent enough to see that I wasn't even against the Vayne. First off, you can see it with first blood. You can then see it again with the rushing of Hexdrinker. You can then see it AGAIN when I kill Swain and take the first tower of the game. I'm glad to know that you consider a 2.4 kda, almost 8 cs/min, and a win "feeding". All while being unranked vs ranked players.

I see Jinx is your most played Adc, it become obvious why you are salty about the nerfs. I, however, am not salty about a champion being nerfed with these stats, as they all eventually are. And for good reason. If she were the EASIEST adc to dumpster on with 0 consequence, her pick/ban/win rate wouldn't be so dam high. She also wouldn't be played in LCS. To take a page out of your book, you should probably spend less time with your head up your ass and more time worrying about wtf you're doing.

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

{quoted}

Well, let's see. I'm honestly not sure what game you're even talking about. If you are talking about the game that I won, but went 5-8-14 as feeding (>2 kda is now feeding?) I will tell you that I wasn't even against Vayne. I was top and Karma + Kayle were bot lane. It's amazing, with the amount of time you spent creeping on my match history, which in no way whatsoever changes the pick/ban/win rate of Jinx, I would have thought you were at least be intelligent enough to see that I wasn't even against the Vayne. First off, you can see it with first blood. You can then see it again with the rushing of Hexdrinker. You can then see it AGAIN when I kill Swain and take the first tower of the game. I'm glad to know that you consider a 2.4 kda, almost 8 cs/min, and a win "feeding". All while being unranked vs ranked players.

I see Jinx is your most played Adc, it become obvious why you are salty about the nerfs. I, however, am not salty about a champion being nerfed with these stats, as they all eventually are. And for good reason. If she were the EASIEST adc to dumpster on with 0 consequence, her pick/ban/win rate wouldn't be so dam high. She also wouldn't be played in LCS. To take a page out of your book, you should probably spend less time with your head up your ass and more time worrying about wtf you're doing.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=captnjaksparrow

How many games do you see of me playing Jinx?

And I stopped playing her because of exactly why I stated. She gets dumpstered too easily. I enjoy seeing her on the enemy team :/

SexyTaylorSwift3 votes

I see it right here, as your 4th most played champion and your most played Adc this season. Sure, you haven't played her recently, but usually people who play freelo tend to move on to the next FoTM. Nor does that reflect on 98% of what I wrote. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is now a waste of time. Have a jolly day.

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

{quoted}

I see it right here, as your 4th most played champion and your most played Adc this season. Sure, you haven't played her recently, but usually people who play freelo tend to move on to the next FoTM. Nor does that reflect on 98% of what I wrote. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is now a waste of time. Have a jolly day.

Not really. You'll notice I stopped playing her before she was even mentioned getting a nerf. I also stopped playing her right around gold 2 mmr where people suddenly caught on to the "Hi, I'm a really immobile champion with no real escape. Oh, there's absolutely nothing I can do against Volibear, or Nautilus support? What's this? Jinx is actually a really terrible pick once people realize to focus fire? and team comps start looking like this?"

Volibear item 3717 Nautilussummoner 14 Katarina Lucian Hecarim summoner 12 item 3717

I can assure you. As Jinx. you will NEVER survive more than 3 seconds. Not only that. Your laning phase cheese is absolutely ruined against the common Lucian pick, So. With that in mind. You can't cheese through lane phase. Your mid game is garbage due to the champion roster. And your late game means jack. Conclusion. No reason to pick Jinx.

Had nothing to do with fotm, or her nerfs. It's just picking her is setting yourself up for failure when it comes to the particular meta in that mmr area.

Tl;dr. I haven't played her since gold 3 because she is almost a guaranteed loss in the current mmr due to the champion roster. And instead of playing adc, I decided jungle and support were more important because then I could be where I needed to be to at least prevent the cheese from happening, unlike most supports and junglers I get on my team.

ApplyForAGrant1 votes

Bronze spotted

Bern3 votes

I'm not saying she isn't played; she's even been seeing Korean play (as I just discussed), and Korea's historically been pretty reluctant to run Jinx. That being said, I feel like people seem obsessed with looking at her kit in isolation from the rest of the game and how difficult it is for Jinx not to just get jumped on and wrecked in a teamfight. It requires significant peel. There's a reason you practically never see a Jinx pick without Thresh and Lulu, and Lulu solo lane is a significant sacrifice. You -are- making sacrifices to pick a Jinx in serious play. It's not all roses and getting excited; more often, it's Annie flashing onto you with Tibbers and the rest of the team following their support's lead and deleting you, or TF gold carding you and hitting Zhonya's, or Rengar jumping on you, or Zed popping you, or any number of comparable situations.

Jinx picks A) lack safety and B) require concessions in teamcomp that make the comp weaker overall to make the Jinx safer.

I also do feel like people overexaggerate her hypercarry potential; she's no Vayne, Kog'Maw, or Twitch (and I honestly feel like she innately scales worse than Trist, that last major "hypercarry," just in virtue of not being able to get high AS at any range better than 525). Can Jinx wreck everything? Yes. But Jinx pays for existing in that space inbetween normal carry and hypercarry pretty heavily. She deals less damage than Kog or Vayne or Twitch, and is less safe than both Vayne and Trist (and arguably Kog, who builds obscene MS and gets a low CD brush check and vision tool). In exchange for being worse at being a hypercarry than any of the above, she snowballed very well and ramped strongly into midgame. Now, she lacks those benefits. Her niche is gone (and honestly, I feel like it's occupied by Tristana instead now, which is really awkward).

Erockandroll1 votes

It use to be that I would level up her Q first for the combination of AS and range on her rockets. It gave me strong poke with the rocket while giving me good sieging power early.

Not being quite as beneficial (nor as reliant) on her Q for snowballing, I might start maxing her W first. (hoping my skill shots are on point.) It would probably provide more powerful harass than her rockets.

Marthian1 votes

Played a game today as Jinx, completely forgot about the patch, still won lane and then the game.

magic pole1 votes

aw ur freelo jinx got nerfed? item 3070

Bern1 votes

It's really depressing that the response to Jinx's strength is "nerf everyone into the ground" rather than things like "give Vayne the ability to auto after condemn back," etc. Jinx is only getting high winrates because solo queue is uncoordinated; personally, I don't believe in balancing for uncoordinated play. (If you want to see a really good example of what -should- happen to Jinx in coordinated competitive play, the first match in the LCK set yesterday Between Samsung and the KOO Tigers is a really good illustration -- even with Thresh and Lulu, she kept getting singled out by Bard ulti, gold carded by TF, etc. The pickup has innate risks that people tend not to take full advantage of in solo queue.) I'd rather see other ADCs buffed back to playable status than see Jinx stay in the state she's in.

ADC as a whole has been suffering for a while now, imo -- making enough of a difference early to matter has been becoming progressively more difficult since BT was changed way back in season 4. These Jinx changes just keep exacerbating the problem.

SexyTaylorSwift4 votes

Yes, she is only good in the uncoordinated soloQ. That is why she isn't played in LCS....oh wait...

Bern1 votes

Jinx isn't balanced right now. If she were balanced, there would be a clear case and time to pick her over other ADCs. I am not seeing that case.

And I think it's pretty poor to try to say something is imbalanced based on competitive when competitive is often slow to adapt and shift to find new metas. It's literally just yesterday that Bard got play in the LCK for the first time (and to pretty amazing effect in a rotation/map maneuverability comp). The pros are often slow to adopt new things just because safety and consistency are prized when you're stuck playing a lot of best of ones or best of threes.

Akeydel3 votes

That case is EVERY GAME. It's her switcheroo that makes her still strong, because it lets her excel at two things: 1: Pushing objectives - Minigun AS buff lets her shred towers. Or Inhibs. Or dragon/baron. Because it's a very potent PERMANENT AS buff, her damage on objectives ramps up a LOT. Plus her rockets let her push waves very very quickly. 2: Teamfighting - Her AOE damage and safety of rockets make her one of the best teamfighting adc's. It sets her range up to be (permanently) higher than most adc's, at the cost of mana. The only exceptions are temporary buffs (7 seconds on twitch ult, or 8 for kogs w) which limit the duration of fights and leave them relatively weak for clean-ups.

EVERY GAME you're going to have to do those two things. In solo queue, you can fill in whatever weakness your team has, and in competitive play she can do both. These two goals are what every other adc also try to do, but Jinx does BOTH better than any other adc. THAT is why she got a nerf, and why people still play her even though she's not as OP as before.

Bern1 votes

{quoted}

That case is EVERY GAME. It's her switcheroo that makes her still strong, because it lets her excel at two things: 1: Pushing objectives - Minigun AS buff lets her shred towers. Or Inhibs. Or dragon/baron. Because it's a very potent PERMANENT AS buff, her damage on objectives ramps up a LOT. 2: Teamfighting - Her AOE damage and safety of rockets make her one of the best teamfighting adc's. It sets her range up to be (permanently) higher than most adc's, at the cost of mana. The only exceptions are temporary buffs (7 seconds on twitch ult, or 8 for kogs w).

EVERY GAME you're going to have to do those two things. In solo queue, you can fill in whatever weakness your team has, and in competitive play she can do both. These two goals are what every other adc also try to do, but Jinx does BOTH better than any other adc. THAT is why she got a nerf, and why people still play her even though she's not as OP as before.

I will repeat this over and over.

Rockets are overrated. Unless the enemy team is clumping like idiots, which is something you shouldn't do out of principle anyways, they do almost no damage compared to minigun because your AS is so low. (Well, they used to do no damage compared to minigun -- now minigun AS isn't better enough to take the risk midgame lolllll) Killing one target quickly is always more important than slowly killing two. Caitlyn. -Caitlyn.- Will likely outdamage Jinx rockets in practical DPS on a single target at one item, and almost definitely at two. The flexibility is important, but Jinx doesn't do damage fast enough to a single target when compared with the other team's carry if she's using rockets. Teamfights are often a damage race, and using nothing but rockets can lose you that race too easily. This is especially the case in comps like the normal Jinx comp, where you have Lulu mid and you're sacrificing a damage mid to make Jinx safer.

And furthermore, she doesn't really "excel" at either thing, and that's not the tradeoff she makes. (Guess what, btw -- Trist does both those things you mentioned better than Jinx, now! She takes towers faster, and has AoE damage on E!) Jinx basically gets to choose between slow damage at good range and fast damage at trash range; likewise, the exchange for having 700 range is doing worse single-target DPS than anyone else that gets that kind of range, and the exchange for being at 525 is that you get none of the safety baked into the kits of other low-range champions. -Remember, no other 525 or lower range ADC has no escape.- Quinn can ult and sometimes vault; Graves has Quickdraw. Lucian has a low CD dash, and Sivir gets her ult in addition to a spellshield for additional safety. Jinx at 525 needs to be better than these champs at dealing her damage, or she's outclassed at the range she does real DPS by more mobile champions. Jinx at 700 should be worse at dps than Trist or Kog at their max ranges in exchange for the ability to get mad deeps at 525 (and this -was- the case, but isn't anymore). Now, by the time Jinx gets to do real damage at 525, other hypercarries are doing it at 550, 600, or 700+ range. And Jinx never does good single-target DPS with rockets. There is no point of the game at which Jinx shines over any other carry and no reason to make the tradeoffs baked into her kit when you can just choose a different champion that doesn't need to make them.

Basically, my complaint is that her midgame DPS isn't good enough to warrant using minigun when you have no escape (which it used to be), but her rocket DPS is really mediocre at midgame too, since she doesn't have any items other than greaves to increase rocket AS. Her midgame is just shit now because you don't want to be in range to do actual damage because it's not worth it anymore.

BestTristMyHaus1 votes

{quoted}

I'll be blunt: I've played at least 200 Jinx games. I'm not happy. The champion is bad. Her midgame is way too trash for the payoff. I'm just going to play Tristana instead. Why play Jinx when I can play a champion that does the vast majority of what Jinx used to do better than Jinx does now?

I'm not normally one to make topics like this, but this is the first time Riot's screwed a champion I play so badly. I'm really disappointed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hey gypsylord, here's example #1 to put on your stack of "Jinx does so well because her players are mains that all love her and play her a ton because of how much they love her not because she's abusively freelo". (also, I notice your last performance with Jinx is STILL better than your last performance with Trist)

Bern1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mahou Girl Mami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2U9fZaXb,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-05-29T14:19:56.273+0000)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hey gypsylord, here's example #1 to put on your stack of "Jinx does so well because her players are mains that all love her and play her a ton because of how much they love her not because she's abusively freelo". (also, I notice your last performance with Jinx is STILL better than your last performance with Trist)

Well, yeah. That's what happens when you have a ton of games on one champ and significantly fewer on another. =////////

And I can tell you rn, I could've carried the last game I played on Jinx if it were pre-nerf. I felt like I made literally no difference in fights for the vast majority of the game despite being decently fed. When you scale better with levels than with items (and Jinx needs both now because her base AS is so bad and her kit is murdered), you're getting locked out way too hard from normal snowballing potential to make the kind of difference you should be able to make. I would've been able to make a much larger difference on almost anyone else at that stage of the game if I were the same amount of fed. It's pretty bad.

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