@Riot Regarding Solo Queue Placements

SirPurrr·Feb 29, 2016·1 votes·478 views

I'm playing DQ on an account I just leveled up recently for practice before Solo Queue comes out. I read that DQ and SQ will be separate ladders and the DQ ranking won't affect placements for SQ. However, I think it should affect placement MMR because while DQ isn't a valid ranking system for individual skill, it still gives you a ballpark. Someone who is Platinum in DQ will likely be at least high Silver in SQ and I'd rather not have placements vs Bronze players when I start SQ.

12 Comments

Live2LetDieFeb 29, 20163 votes

SQ will be a joke like 3s ranked is.
80% of the community, this is silver-, will stay with DQ since it was already stated it will give the Vic skins.
Horrible idea to release SQ at this point.

LeBlanc JameśFeb 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

SQ will be a joke like 3s ranked is.

80% of the community, this is silver-, will stay with DQ since it was already stated it will give the Vic skins.

Horrible idea to release SQ at this point.

Playing with friends is more fun than playing with rando's win or lose.

SirPurrrFeb 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Playing with friends is more fun than playing with rando's win or lose.

We're not talking about the same thing. If you find playing with friends more fun, good for you. It doesn't change anything about the validity of a ranking system whether you have more fun or not.

LeBlanc JameśFeb 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

We're not talking about the same thing. If you find playing with friends more fun, good for you. It doesn't change anything about the validity of a ranking system whether you have more fun or not.

You're right. It doesn't. You saying it's not a valid ranking system doesn't ill-legitimize it either. What makes it a legit system? What are Riots criteria standards for a legit ranking system? What are your criteria standards?

LeBlanc JameśFeb 29, 20162 votes

How is DQ not a "valid" ranking system for "individual" skill?

You STILL have to play well to win. You STILL have to work with others the same as you would "Solo".

There is no difference other than the fact that you can play with who you want instead of randoms. Even if you have a party of 5 it's not a guarantee win. If YOUR individual skill is lacking and you feed mid are you gong to win simply because your're in DQ? No. You have to play well no matter what Queue you are in.

Someone who is Platinum in DQ is most likely going to be Platinum in Solo Queue. Why would it be any different? It's not.

SirPurrrFeb 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

How is DQ not a "valid" ranking system for "individual" skill?

You STILL have to play well to win. You STILL have to work with others the same as you would "Solo".

There is no difference other than the fact that you can play with who you want instead of randoms. Even if you have a party of 5 it's not a guarantee win. If YOUR individual skill is lacking and you feed mid are you gong to win simply because your're in DQ? No. You have to play well no matter what Queue you are in.

Someone who is Platinum in DQ is most likely going to be Platinum in Solo Queue. Why would it be any different? It's not.

It's meaningless for individual skill assessment. You have no idea if someone got their DQ ranking playing only with 4 friends or solo. It mixes everyone on the same ladder despite it showing very different things.

If you have good synergy with 4 others and know how they play from a lot of experience with them, you'll do well even if you're a weak player. You can even just build a detailed game plan with those 4, use Skype, ONLY run 1-2 comps. you all know well like maybe Malphite and Yasuo every game etc.

It's more about just how many games you play with them and how well you practiced that one thing than anything particularly skillful about individual play. Good players can be high ranked in DQ but it's no guarantee (to say the least) that because they are ranked well they are actually good. Even people who duo qued had to be pretty good to get high ELO before because you don't have the ability to control so many players and restrict choices so heavily to get only exactly what you want with a plan everyone will follow.

LeBlanc JameśFeb 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

It's meaningless for individual skill assessment. You have no idea if someone got their DQ ranking playing only with 4 friends or solo. It mixes everyone on the same ladder despite it showing very different things.

If you have good synergy with 4 others and know how they play from a lot of experience with them, you'll do well even if you're a weak player. You can even just build a detailed game plan with those 4, use Skype, ONLY run 1-2 comps. you all know well like maybe Malphite and Yasuo every game etc.

It's more about just how many games you play with them and how well you practiced that one thing than anything particularly skillful about individual play. Good players can be high ranked in DQ but it's no guarantee (to say the least) that because they are ranked well they are actually good. Even people who duo qued had to be pretty good to get high ELO before because you don't have the ability to control so many players and restrict choices so heavily to get only exactly what you want with a plan everyone will follow.

There is NO advantage for those that DQ simply because the other team is DQ as well and have the same of everything you just explained above. 5v5 teams was harder than Solo Queue and Dynamic is proving to be no different.

DQ is fine and the only people that have legit reasons to be upset are the top tier players that have hour queue's

SirPurrrFeb 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There is NO advantage for those that DQ simply because the other team is DQ as well and have the same of everything you just explained above. 5v5 teams was harder than Solo Queue and Dynamic is proving to be no different.

DQ is fine and the only people that have legit reasons to be upset are the top tier players that have hour queue's

Duo vs Duo isn't always the case and like I said, the problem is you have no idea what the ranking means. If it was the exact same as it is now but it would show separate rankings for each queue configuration, that would make sense. It would be specific enough to be meaningful. As it stands now, it's completely useless as a ranking system. I gave a potential 5s example which showcases how potentially different it can be in terms of what it reflects.

This isn't even up to debate. It's indisputable that a 5s ranking is not equivalent to a solo ranking and vice versa. Since the system doesn't distinguish between queue configurations when displaying a ranking, it serves no purpose as a ladder which is supposed to allow comparisons between players. Thus, it's fundamentally flawed and invalid as a ranking system since it doesn't meet even the basic criteria of internal validity as well as consistency of experience. This isn't a matter of opinion and would still be true even if matchmaking was perfect for each queue configuration as well as always balanced.

LeBlanc JameśFeb 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Duo vs Duo isn't always the case and like I said, the problem is you have no idea what the ranking means. If it was the exact same as it is now but it would show separate rankings for each queue configuration, that would make sense. It would be specific enough to be meaningful. As it stands now, it's completely useless as a ranking system. I gave a potential 5s example which showcases how potentially different it can be in terms of what it reflects.

This isn't even up to debate. It's indisputable that a 5s ranking is not equivalent to a solo ranking and vice versa. Since the system doesn't distinguish between queue configurations when displaying a ranking, it serves no purpose as a ladder which is supposed to allow comparisons between players. Thus, it's fundamentally flawed and invalid as a ranking system since it doesn't meet even the basic criteria of internal validity as well as consistency of experience. This isn't a matter of opinion and would still be true even if matchmaking was perfect for each queue configuration as well as always balanced.

You have no idea what the criteria standards are to make a "valid" ranking system.

The problem is that you don't understand that this is a 5v5 PVP game. Implementing a system that allows players to get their "individual" rank will never happen. Ever. Solo Queue where only players can queue up as one person is still not a valid ranking system according to what you just said.

People need to understand that this is a team game and not a solo experience. The only TRUE valid ranking system would be if Riot said only 5v5 can enter ranked. Then we would get a "valid" ranking system that actually shows player skill.

SirPurrrMar 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You have no idea what the criteria standards are to make a "valid" ranking system.

The problem is that you don't understand that this is a 5v5 PVP game. Implementing a system that allows players to get their "individual" rank will never happen. Ever. Solo Queue where only players can queue up as one person is still not a valid ranking system according to what you just said.

People need to understand that this is a team game and not a solo experience. The only TRUE valid ranking system would be if Riot said only 5v5 can enter ranked. Then we would get a "valid" ranking system that actually shows player skill.

You're flat out wrong and there is no inconsistency in my statements. A pure SQ would represent one thing for everyone over a sufficient number of games and you'd be the constant in all games. In DQ, a ranking represents many different things... solo, 5s, trio etc. It is not valid and actually considering my background in statistics and poker game theory, I do know what I'm talking about regardless of whether you agree or not.

I also disagree entirely with your example of 5s being the only valid ranking system. 5s actually is much less about individual skill as well but that's not even the point. DQ rankings would be valid as is if they simply elaborated the ranking by showing a separate one for each queue configuration. Due to sample size problems, this may not be feasible, but it would still be infinitely more useful if it showed a solo, duo-trio and 5s ranking individually. Right now, they are all conflated to the point of being meaningless due to a lack of specificity. A ranking system has to reflect a consistent environment for the participants over the long run and DQ allows variables which make this impossible (pure solo plays compared to pure 5s players all on the same ladder for example).

LeBlanc JameśMar 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're flat out wrong and there is no inconsistency in my statements. A pure SQ would represent one thing for everyone over a sufficient number of games and you'd be the constant in all games. In DQ, a ranking represents many different things... solo, 5s, trio etc. It is not valid and actually considering my background in statistics and poker game theory, I do know what I'm talking about regardless of whether you agree or not.

I also disagree entirely with your example of 5s being the only valid ranking system. 5s actually is much less about individual skill as well but that's not even the point. DQ rankings would be valid as is if they simply elaborated the ranking by showing a separate one for each queue configuration. Due to sample size problems, this may not be feasible, but it would still be infinitely more useful if it showed a solo, duo-trio and 5s ranking individually. Right now, they are all conflated to the point of being meaningless due to a lack of specificity. A ranking system has to reflect a consistent environment for the participants over the long run and DQ allows variables which make this impossible (pure solo plays compared to pure 5s players all on the same ladder for example).

It's clear that you and I will never agree. Instead of going back and forth with you're wrong I'm going to allocate my time elsewhere.

Thank you for the brief debate. Good luck getting your Solo Queue.

Mysticman89Feb 29, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure your first time ranked seeding mmr is influenced by your normals mmr, so if you're facing off against plats in normals then you're unlikely to be facing bronzies in your placements.

Even if I'm mistaken and it gives you an mmr completely independently of DQ/normals, it should start you in the low silver range so as long as you don't flub your first match you can avoid bronze players with a little luck. (Although during placements, I'd probably be happy to face against bronze players since they can be reliably stomped for an easy win.)