22% win rate difference between teams is balanced matchmaking?

Ulquiorra0123·Jul 27, 2018·2 votes·734 views

I think it might be time to stop matchmaking based on MMR at low elos if win rate differentials are going to be this harsh. If people are winning more, regardless of MMR they are better players. This is a fundamental fact of a game like this. Stop basing games off of MMR and go on division and WR. Every game is the same crap after a 3 game win streak, I get 4 games in a row that are just unwinnable at no fault of my teammates or myself, just that we get matched in a game where all 5 of them are just better players.

13 Comments

DrCyanideJul 27, 20183 votes

A person finishes their placements, goes 5/5, and gets Silver 5. They play another round, this time with a teammate who's played 100 games, perfectly split 50/50. They win.

The new player now has a 54.5% win rate The old player now has a 50.5% win rate

Your system would say that these two players are incompatible, to be matched together, despite both being only 1 game off of a 50% win rate.

In short, you didn't think the math through and would have created a worse system.

Ulquiorra0123Jul 27, 20181 votes

So placements are 10 games. Everyone knows this who plays ranked. The likelihood is most people finish with a 70% win rate or higher. Your MMR at this point is so incredibly wrong anyways. I don't really care about people who don't play ranked, as they aren't affected by the changes whatsoever anyways so who cares about someone who just finished placements.

And before you say well the start of season exists, well its crap at the start of the season anyways, so who cares?

Assume its midseason and you get into a game with 10 people who have 100+ games, would you rather 10 people within a division of one another with win rates that are similar, or the way it is where there are 4 people in the game, 3 on one team with above a 55% win rate, and everyone else is below 50%, combined with the fact the division differential is over an entire league? You are going to seriously sit here and say that this is a fair system? I want fair games, not the BS that it is every single game.

The sad part is that I understand that everyone has bad games, but claiming that someone whos played 100 games and has a 50.5% win rate should be in the same game as someone who literally doesn't play ranked is kinda dumb. They are incompatible, one is trying to climb, one is a for fun player who rarely plays ranked. The only situation where the current MMR system is even near decent is with players who don't play much ranked or enter the ranked system late in the season. It is not good for players who actually play the game.

BavalJul 27, 20183 votes

id rather have the way it is now, by far. I prefer being able to play against people of my skill level thanks to MMR regardless of their rank or winrate so that i can quickly climb to my correct rank than wasting dozens of games playing with and against people worse than me and inflating my win rate to ridiculous levels only to rank up and find myself matched with people the next rank up with 80% or whatever win rates in that rank.

Ulquiorra0123Jul 27, 20181 votes

But the MMR system doesn't show your skill level at all. I had someone in my game who literally went 1-7 on yasuo and just never plays the champion, and he feeds every single game, but hes in my MMR tier, and my MMR tier is normal for my rank. Explain how this happens? Explain how this person who feeds every game, and I do fairly decent except for off days is in my game, and how that is considered my skill level (I also want to say that this yasuo has a 55% win rate and I have a 43% win rate, and they get carried every game cause their games are with people like me, Their win rate wouldn't skyrocket like this if they were facing players around their win rate and division, but he doesn't, so his winrate is super inflated by facing bronze players because his mmr is through the floor) xD Your fantasy just doesn't exist here, you are actually delusional if you think that someone getting fed in a game is just getting fed, no, they are just an innately better player than the opposing laner.

The problem is, I can lose 5 games, and then autowin 7 in a row, I have done it multiple times when I start getting tired of losing games that are supposed to be "even". The current MMR system is seriously abuseable, It takes 5 losses for your mmr to tank into oblivion and then you just get way easier games. Can you see where the issue with this is? At 40 LP, 5 losses doesn't demote me, at 0 LP, 7 wins promotes me. I'm actually going to do this to get into gold with a 42% win rate (this is pathetic btw). Think about this for a second, do I look like a good enough player to be in gold? Absolutely not, not a damn chance do I belong in gold, but I'm going to get there as soon as I win two games.

And this is the heavy issue I have, I went on a 6 game win streak (literally carried every game) and then got 3 unwinnable games. The game punished me for doing well. And it is purely because of the MMR system and the fact it is a horrible system for matchmaking fair games. The only difficulty I have in climbing is getting to the MMR level where 5 losses in a row doesn't demote me. As soon as this happens, I get to autoclimb a division because all 7 games I'm in a game I DON'T BELONG IN.

BavalJul 27, 20181 votes

yes it does. Hes in your MMR tier because you have a self admitted 43% win rate, which is abysmally low. He is bad, and you are bad.

(ps he has a 43% win ratio same as you so even in your system he gets matched with you)

(pps he far from feeds every game)

edit: oh god i read more of your wall of text. according to you his MMR is with bronze players, who carry him, and also includes you who are silver but your MMR is normal, and the enemy who is also in your MMR bracket are better than you. So from this the only thing we can gather is that you see Bronze players as better than you, and that bronze MMR (which neither you nor he actually have) is normal for silver players. You seriously are delusional.

Do you seriously think that you can keep this "tank my MMR then win streak and get promoted" thing? Im doubt it works at all. Youd need 20 LP on a win for it to work, which you dont get unless your MMR is higher than your current rank. Otherwise 7 wins will at best put you in your promos, and even that requires 14 LP on a win.

Do you seem like a good enough player to be in gold? Nope. Do I think you will get to gold? Nope. "im gonna get there as soon as i win 2 games" lol youre silver 1 with 0 LP.

Ulquiorra0123Jul 27, 20181 votes

Well when I get gold next week, Ill come back to this, and you will see a gold player with a 42% win rate who got there by abusing the MMR system and how it only cares about streaks. I've already climbed two divisions by doing it. 5 tanked losses and 7 autowins.

There is one condition to this, a slightly higher MMR than normal to start :) Which I have automatically after a win streak :) And the reason this is the case, is the MMR system and how it only cares about streaks :)

BavalJul 27, 20181 votes

lol ok bud, good luck getting back to where youve been trying to for 6 months with your little system there. You know I can see your division history and know youre lying right?[slayer-jinx-wink]

BavalJul 27, 20181 votes

Also why is it going to take you a week to win 7 games in a row, and if MMR doesnt represent skill why is it when you lower your MMR youre able to win 7 games in a row but when it comes back up you cant?

BavalJul 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If people are winning more, regardless of MMR they are better players.

So a dude with a silver rank whos MMR matches him with Bronze 5s who he then beats 54% of the time is better than say, a dude with silver rank whos MMR matches him with Gold 1 players who he beats 51% of the time?

nah

{quoted}

that are just unwinnable at no fault of my teammates or myself, just that we get matched in a game where all 5 of them are just better players.

If you cant hang with people in higher ranks than you, what makes you believe you deserve to climb to those higher ranks?

Ulquiorra0123Jul 27, 20181 votes

They aren't higher ranks, they are people who aren't climbing with 57% win rates, I'm climbing with a 43% win rate. I deserve to be matched in even games, not have the entire team be completely outmatched from champ select.

This would also never happen in the system I propose, because they would face each other immediately and one would climb, the other wouldn't... Like there wouldn't be a silver player who faces Bronze 5s, and there wouldn't be a silver player who faces gold 1s, there would be silver players who play silver players within 1 or two divisions who have similar win rates. So I see you just didn't read the post at all xD

BavalJul 27, 20181 votes

players who are better than you and arent climbing with 57% win rates, while you who are worse according to you with a 43% win rate who is climbing, and youre all the same rank and MMR?

I think youre delusional.

Ulquiorra0123Jul 27, 20181 votes

We are at the same MMR, they aren't climbing, I am climbing, because I am abusing the MMR system. Anybody can come across this though after a simple 6 game win streak. I know this is more unlikely, but this is what happens when you go on a large win streak, that is the type of game you get matched in.

You do know you can lose 5 games in a row and have your MMR be in a place where you get placed in games you don't belong in and you can roflstomp like 7 or 8 games in a row? The only difficulty I have had doing this in this season is that I misjudge where my MMR is sometimes, So I've gotten demoted a couple of times. I am going to get into gold with a 43% win rate. I will get placed in games with people who are gold 4-5 with 55% win rates, and they are just innately better players. You think this is fair? No its just not fair, its not fair for my teammates. This is all assuming I am just not trying to play of course.

My problem with this, is that I can climb with a horrendous win rate purely because of how the MMR system works. Do you know what system I can't do this in? A system where its matched based on division and win rate. This account is strictly made to show that the MMR system is garbage, you can completely abuse it as long as you understand the system itself. It rewards loss streaks with autowin games, and punishes win streaks with autoloss games. I am actually 2 losses from getting into gold, it is actually that bad. It is better to lose games than to win them.

It is far better to tank a few games without demoting, and then just try until promotion, then to grind it out. In a system where it depends entirely on what streak you are on, it is heavily abuseable, and on top of being abuseable, it creates heavily unfavorable games for one side as far as player skill is concerned.

BavalJul 27, 20181 votes

lol no you cant as i already mathematically discussed in the other post.

Also youre not climbing, you were gold 5 last season and havent been able to get back since. Youve been going up and down between silver 2 and 1, the rank you belong at.

Youre just making stuff up to try and support your views now that are easy to look up an prove wrong, and its hilarious