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On Katarina Nerfs on PBE

Ad Astra per Asp··11 votes·2,393 views

The reason for the nerfs to her ultimate were given as she is roaming bottom lane alot and is very good at that and the next season you predict mid will roam bot even more so you wished to cut her power in the early game. I don't feel that you considered that Katarina mid-late game and late game is completely team dependent and without that early lead and impact is entirely bottom tier again.

She does need some sort of compensation to her late and mid late game if you are going to cut her early game because she can't 1v1 mid very easily already, she really only does good in early and sometimes mid game skirmishes. If she gets ahead there her impact can be felt longer into the game. But if everyone gets durability and/or groups and the better engager/initiator is on their team, all things pretty even or kat ahead... she is almost entirely useless. I don't know how much the ult changes will impact her ganks bottom. But I know how it will make her fair mid. A lot worse. The thing about ganks bottom lane whether you are talon, zed, kat, or any other mid who can roam is you're going to win. Because you will outnumber the people you're fighting against you will win in all but extreme circumstances.

Being able to ult every minute allowed you to keep pressure up mid so you aren't just forced out of farm. Which can easily happen to kat. So I urge you to rethink your strategy in balancing kat as she has had a very tumultous past at your hands and us kat players are quite frankly sick of the roller coaster.

27 Comments

Kats Pajamas4 votes

as a kat main,

I'm completely unaffected by the numbers of that stupid ultimate.

I really really just want a second bouncing blade.

Ad Astra per Asp4 votes

as a kat main,

I'm completely unaffected by the numbers of that stupid ultimate.

I really really just want a second bouncing blade.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if they haven't twice already removed power from her QWE and put them into R, and late game with QWE isn't enough to kill anyone unless you're miles ahead. It will also grossly effect her ability to use R more than once a fight since they nerfed her passive to 15 second reduction instead of a full reset. the least they could do is fix the bug where over half the time W doesn't reset while your other abilities do. Even in the big plays spotlight they made if you watch the video her W doesn't reset in it when it should. Bouncing Blade also gets ignores in alot of reset combos because of it's ridiculous cast animation slowing the entire thing down.

Kats Pajamas1 votes

as a kat main,

I'm completely unaffected by the numbers of that stupid ultimate.

I really really just want a second bouncing blade.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if they haven't twice already removed power from her QWE and put them into R, and late game with QWE isn't enough to kill anyone unless you're miles ahead. It will also grossly effect her ability to use R more than once a fight since they nerfed her passive to 15 second reduction instead of a full reset. the least they could do is fix the bug where over half the time W doesn't reset while your other abilities do. Even in the big plays spotlight they made if you watch the video her W doesn't reset in it when it should. Bouncing Blade also gets ignores in alot of reset combos because of it's ridiculous cast animation slowing the entire thing down.

nothing you said is wrong about them fixing that stuff. but that ultimate is a mole on her face and nerfing it gives later hearsay on buffing the QWE back up.

Ad Astra per Asp3 votes

as a kat main,

I'm completely unaffected by the numbers of that stupid ultimate.

I really really just want a second bouncing blade.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if they haven't twice already removed power from her QWE and put them into R, and late game with QWE isn't enough to kill anyone unless you're miles ahead. It will also grossly effect her ability to use R more than once a fight since they nerfed her passive to 15 second reduction instead of a full reset. the least they could do is fix the bug where over half the time W doesn't reset while your other abilities do. Even in the big plays spotlight they made if you watch the video her W doesn't reset in it when it should. Bouncing Blade also gets ignores in alot of reset combos because of it's ridiculous cast animation slowing the entire thing down.

nothing you said is wrong about them fixing that stuff. but that ultimate is a mole on her face and nerfing it gives later hearsay on buffing the QWE back up.

I just want her balanced in a way that makes sense, letting them over nerf her ultimate in hopes of getting better QWE at a later date only to have that nerfed because it's too strong is more roller coaster and I am sick of it. I want to not have to consider patch notes when I pick kat, I want to be able to play her competitively no matter what time of year it is or what Riot is smoking that time of year.

Kuroi862 votes

The only problem with buffing her QWE is... Kat with reliable burst.

I'm sorry, but that's genuinely scary.

Ad Astra per Asp2 votes

The only problem with buffing her QWE is... Kat with reliable burst.

I'm sorry, but that's genuinely scary.

I'm not asking for that the other guy was :/ I think the nerf on both damage and time is too much unless they make the level 16 version of the ult have more damage. Her late game already sucks. This is gonna knock her game impactfulness down by a lot more than they intend and she's gonna be bottom tier garbage again that people rage for if you pick her.

BigDaddySenpaiii4 votes

Katarina is a problem because she's starting to get banned alot, so they nerf?

Meanwhile Fizz is one of the most banned champs in the game, but they won't ban him because they "don't know how the preseason will affect him"

At some point it becomes obvious when there are people in the office who clearly favour certain champs.

Ad Astra per Asp3 votes

Katarina is a problem because she's starting to get banned alot, so they nerf?

Meanwhile Fizz is one of the most banned champs in the game, but they won't ban him because they "don't know how the preseason will affect him"

At some point it becomes obvious when there are people in the office who clearly favour certain champs.

Fizz and Fiora have been sitting at the top of win rates and been banned pretty frequently almost all season and remain untouched... I agree.

iMaB3AST1 votes

yes pls

Dunderflump3 votes

Revert the Kat rework. She was actually fun to play back then.

Ad Astra per Asp2 votes

Which rework? There's been at least 3.
First there was her W that gave shunpo dodge and Q grievous wounds and Ad vs Ap kat used to be a heated debate. Then they made only AP kat viable and reworked her and gave E damage reduction with W. Then there was the rework where everything moved to base damages and W totally changed. Then they decided to undo alot of that and make all of her damage move to her ult and scale as a response to tank kat top.

Dunderflump1 votes

Which rework? There's been at least 3.

No, there's been one. They had tweaked her scalings/abilities slightly a couple of times but she always played the same until her rework.

Ad Astra per Asp2 votes

They totally changed W more than once actually. W gives dodge, no W gives damage mitigation, no W gives you extra damage on auto attacks as a passive, no now it doesn't no now it's a new spell. E has a .9 AP ratio no now it has a bad AP ratio and we give it damage reduction built in. Now we're reducing the damage reduction to almost nothing because tank kat is bad for the meta. Q has better AD scaling than AP scaling. No now they have about equal scaling. Now Q has no or next to no AD scaling. Her ult has high base damage but great scaling. Her ult lasts 3 seconds. No 2.5, no 3. No, 2.5. Her ult has better AD scaling for gold spent. No, now it has better AP scaling. We're removing power from her ult and putting it in her basic abilities. No, that was a bad idea now we're gonna put it into her ultimate again. Now we're gonna reduce her ultimate and up the time to the highest it's ever been in history. That should catch us up. Some of those especially the removal of dodge, removing AD as a viable build, and others can be considered reworking her. It totally changes her possible itemization, priorities and strategies so it's a rework. Tweaking numbers doesn't include removing entire AD scalings, or changing entire spell effects or removing them. That's a rework. I haven't even touched killer instincts yet. Lets have it give 50 gold on assist. No, 15, no lets remove gold on kill/assist all together. Lets make it not a full reset. Lets lower the time even more that the reset gave. The number of changes to her core strategies and play style has moved me from being a Kat main to just frustrated with how she has been handled over the years. Alot of strategies I tried and come up with aren't even possible in todays game b/c of how much they've changed her and catered her reworks to input from a few players who like to play her certain ways forcing everyone else to give her up or conform. Screw that man and screw the roller coaster they need to learn to leave her alone unless it's modest tweaks to numbers to keep her in line with other champions. And too often they aggressively nerf her to let her lay dormant and crappy for far too long. And that was all off the top of my head if I went through patch notes I'm sure I'd remember more.

Edit: oh right I totally forgot how they changed how many targets can be hit by kat's ult. used to be only 1 target at 6, 2 targets at 11 and 3 at 16. Then one patch where they changed just about everything they gave her 3 targets at level 6.

Kats Pajamas2 votes

They totally changed W more than once actually. W gives dodge, no W gives damage mitigation, no W gives you extra damage on auto attacks as a passive, no now it doesn't no now it's a new spell. E has a .9 AP ratio no now it has a bad AP ratio and we give it damage reduction built in. Now we're reducing the damage reduction to almost nothing because tank kat is bad for the meta. Q has better AD scaling than AP scaling. No now they have about equal scaling. Now Q has no or next to no AD scaling. Her ult has high base damage but great scaling. Her ult lasts 3 seconds. No 2.5, no 3. No, 2.5. Her ult has better AD scaling for gold spent. No, now it has better AP scaling. We're removing power from her ult and putting it in her basic abilities. No, that was a bad idea now we're gonna put it into her ultimate again. Now we're gonna reduce her ultimate and up the time to the highest it's ever been in history. That should catch us up. Some of those especially the removal of dodge, removing AD as a viable build, and others can be considered reworking her. It totally changes her possible itemization, priorities and strategies so it's a rework. Tweaking numbers doesn't include removing entire AD scalings, or changing entire spell effects or removing them. That's a rework. I haven't even touched killer instincts yet. Lets have it give 50 gold on assist. No, 15, no lets remove gold on kill/assist all together. Lets make it not a full reset. Lets lower the time even more that the reset gave. The number of changes to her core strategies and play style has moved me from being a Kat main to just frustrated with how she has been handled over the years. Alot of strategies I tried and come up with aren't even possible in todays game b/c of how much they've changed her and catered her reworks to input from a few players who like to play her certain ways forcing everyone else to give her up or conform. Screw that man and screw the roller coaster they need to learn to leave her alone unless it's modest tweaks to numbers to keep her in line with other champions. And too often they aggressively nerf her to let her lay dormant and crappy for far too long. And that was all off the top of my head if I went through patch notes I'm sure I'd remember more.

Edit: oh right I totally forgot how they changed how many targets can be hit by kat's ult. used to be only 1 target at 6, 2 targets at 11 and 3 at 16. Then one patch where they changed just about everything they gave her 3 targets at level 6.

tl'dr you dont know kats q from w and w from e as kat main?

Nerf her harder lol

That's what I'm saying. Her ultimate is garbage. Don't believe me? Grab the extra shunpo seconds and tell me that doesn't have more resets. Try it. 1 game without kats ult till 14/15/16. Not to mention you can make people save cc, and pretend to have ult and 'about' to use it like wukong. If her ult was deleted it would mean nothing. Pretending to have it would be the best feature. Massive damage squishy moving aoe burst, how is standing still, for channel DoT even related to that kit in the smallest bit?

Ad Astra per Asp1 votes

tl;dr you're wrong and can't admit it.

Your argument that her ult doesn't matter and is pointless, is a pointless argument. It's situational, but saying these nerfs have zero effect on her is like claiming that the sky isn't blue. I gave the above examples for your benefit, since this is how you direct the conversation don't expect me to continue it further. I've stated the difference between using her W in tandum with other skills on old kat earlier in this thread. I think you're not even trying to pay attention.

Unvictus3 votes

I totally agree! Riot is very hypocritical when they balance Kat. They've always said they want her power to be in her ult and then they nerf it hard. 30 second increase on her ult at rank 1 is just absurd. They say that the nerf is due to the changes in the preseason, but the preseason isn't even live yet. They are making a PBE change based off of a different changes that are also still on the pbe.

iMaB3AST2 votes

They are like that with most champs. They nerf a champ for no reason (kha zik)

UPfreely3 votes

i think these are 'katarina is viable now so we must nerf her out of vaibility' nerfs

Hayaishi2 votes

Im pretty sure it's been proved that Katarina needs nothing but nerfs with no compensation.

Lucian gets compensated everytime he gets nerfed and that is why he's still nuisance.

Ad Astra per Asp2 votes

Proven by what? If anything it's been proven that every time they nerf Kat she stays at the my teammates rage and quit if I pick her in champion select stage for half a year or more before they buff or rework her (I think she has standing the most reworks of any one champion), at which point she will be OP and then be nerfed again. If anything they've proven they have no idea how to balance Kat because every time they do, they leave her shit tier for months. When they finally do get around to buffing her, they entirely change her. And for once the meta changed and she got stronger and people realized how to play with her and at most she needs a love tap or to see how things change out with the new season with all these new changes coming... but no. Nerf her early game and make her late game even more awful as a result. She's not Lucian, she's kat and she has a long history of being considered rage worthy for picking and I dealt with that enough already for wanting to play her.

Symphony RegaIia1 votes

Lucian isn't a nuisance.

Killer X 122 votes

Nerf her harder lol

Symphony RegaIia2 votes

Kat main trying to preserve freelo source. Move along.

Ad Astra per Asp2 votes

Kat main trying to preserve freelo source. Move along.

Sounds like someone lost to a katarina

Symphony RegaIia2 votes

Nope. That's a deflection attempt from you, a kat main, trying to preserve your freelo source.

Ad Astra per Asp2 votes

As if she's even my most played champ in ranked, and as if your initial statement wasn't a deflection in itself.

OxBaker1 votes

Glad to see RIOT's doing something about her. May finally be able to remove her from my permaban list.

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