Riot is putting too much faith in their players with dynamic groups.

warpenguin555·Nov 4, 2015·118 votes·5,200 views

Getting matched with a 4 man premade is going to be the new biggest fear of ranked. I can see the trolling now. The 4 man afk, all mid cuz Yolo, and surrendering while winning just to cost 1 other guy their promos. Can't report all 4 of them either because the system will just ignore you for spamming it. And as for 5 man lobbies in soloq, THOSE DO NOT BELONG HERE. They have their own damn queues for a reason. When I saw "better ranked experience" I got hyped , but I don't see how quads and full premades in soloq helps any body but the trolls and ranked 5 teams. Solo players like me are feeling thrown out to the curb. I just pray that a the tribunal returns soon so 4 man troll groups get banned.

91 Comments

Unlucky Number7Nov 4, 201545 votes

the fact that the majority of people don't troll with kalista, tahm, or bard means that riot has the right idea about this. just because a system can be abused by trolls does not mean they shouldn't implement it if the system enhances the experience of the game for the majority of the playerbase. and think about what you're saying. who the f-ck would spend 25+ just to ruin someone's promo games once. how are they gonna find 3 more members with the same goals.

also spamming report is not devalued by how often you report. it's devalued by how false the report is. if a 4 man premade does screw you over feel free to report. they'll get the comeuppance

ShatoSummonerNov 4, 20154 votes

Most of the time they don't. But I swear every game I play with one, there's at least one troll-ish play made by them. Including when I'm the one playing them ;) Kappa.

ProzzakNov 4, 20159 votes

If it is one that is called an accident. If they do it multiple times then it becomes troll.

CoolKnightSTNov 4, 20153 votes

The report issue can be easy solved. If you get reported the system checks if the report you are getting are from premades. Fixed

Unlucky Number7Nov 4, 20152 votes

they already fixed it more effectively. look here table of contents: follow up discussion:Dynamic groups.

t0ad5Nov 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unlucky Number7,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EAnUqTn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-04T14:33:00.779+0000)

the fact that the majority of people don't troll with kalista, tahm, or bard means that riot has the right idea about this. just because a system can be abused by trolls does not mean they shouldn't implement it if the system enhances the experience of the game for the majority of the playerbase. and think about what you're saying. who the f-ck would spend 25+ just to ruin someone's promo games once. how are they gonna find 3 more members with the same goals.

also spamming report is not devalued by how often you report. it's devalued by how false the report is. if a 4 man premade does screw you over feel free to report. they'll get the comeuppance

One could use similar logic to suggest that they should have implemented a loss prevention mechanic years ago.
Why isn't it in place? "Exploiatable" - lame excuse.

I do not look forward to this new ranked queue system.

We need an actual solo queue.

sreggadNov 5, 20152 votes

I honestly don't have a problem with premades in soloQ. However if they made soloQ really only a soloQ. I would be okay with it. I'm against them having only douQ or 5man... I only got 2 friends that would play I can't do duo nor 5man and fuck twisted.

THEJJSLAYNov 5, 20152 votes

what about the part where in solo que anyone who has communication or experience playing with one another has an advantage?

Unlucky Number7Nov 5, 20152 votes

i think they want to encourage that. they want to encourage people looking for partners while in ranked and seeking out communication with others.

THEJJSLAYNov 5, 20155 votes

They should join a ranked team and play in 5v5s for that not SOLO que

Unlucky Number7Nov 5, 20151 votes

what if you only have 3 friends? what if you have 10 friend but not more then 4 are on at the same time. the barrier to entry is too large for ranked teams.

and for more reading.

CrownsyNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They should join a ranked team and play in 5v5s for that not SOLO que

yea great, that doesn't work. Not everyone has 4 other people that are online 24/7.

I'm sure most are like me, and 3-4 people who you really like are constantly on. I hate having to be like "fuck you guys, to many to dou". Looking forward to these ques.

GrintyNov 5, 20152 votes

Hi! Your argument is pretty valid, I don't think that people would abuse it with trolling or more than they do now at least.

It is also a good idea that RIOT encourage 2-3-4 premade (5 premade in dynamic is just bahhh.... whatever... wth man...why no TvT?). However, in the case of 4, RIOT also must FORCE people to go solo. I mean that is bs. 1 man has to play "solo" with 4 random players in a NOT SOLOQ gamemode.

My other arguement is what happens if 3-4 premades climb it to a certain rather high division. That is nice and I don't wanna take away their fun. BUT what happens if they separate? 1 man who only played with his premade wanna go, you know good ol' SOLOQ style, alone. Will he be really as a good as that division? I don't think so. Why is that? Because soloQ is not just about skill and knowing your role in team. NONO. You also have to adapt and conform if needed. And that is why soloQ so exciting imo. However, I don't know how RIOT gonna solve it -----Theory ofc,I have no proof what will happen.

Many people "cry" about 4 men harrassing the 5th player also. Yeah, I understand that there will be cases where they will be nice. BUT I think RIOT has to understand there will be bad ones too. Mainly in lower division I guess. I am not saying this, because I just can't take any harassment. I am perfectly fine if one random dude trashtalking in soloQ, I get over it. However if my entire team gonna flame me.... that is just disgusting.

tl;dr "PURE" SOLOQ or DYNAMIC without 4-1 teams or if really necessary to do it with 4-1 teams, make more severe punishment for premades, like 1 of their member chatbanned, all of them chatbanned. Too much. Yes. 2 months and no teams dare to have toxic players.

OFF TOPIC: Why can't we see who is premade? Not necessary in game, but after game?

Mister SupportNov 4, 201518 votes

Another major point...Riot stated it's close to a 95% chance you will be matched with and against a similar group structure. So 5 man will get with 5 man, 4+1 will get will 4+1, and it will be extremely rare cases where a 5 man would go against all randoms.

Meep ManNov 4, 20158 votes

People seem to ignore this fact and skip to the Boards.

VerxintNov 4, 201511 votes

They're also ignoring where lyte said people will be able to get banned for repeatedly using number of reports to bully.

And that it's number of games reported, not number of reports. You reporting them is just as powerful as them reporting you. And if they do it every game and get reported, they'll get punished.

I can't wait for the assblasting to result in a QQ post.

Grunt666Nov 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EAnUqTn,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-04T17:45:16.575+0000)

They're also ignoring where lyte said people will be able to get banned for repeatedly using number of reports to bully.

And that it's number of games reported, not number of reports. You reporting them is just as powerful as them reporting you. And if they do it every game and get reported, they'll get punished.

I can't wait for the assblasting to result in a QQ post.

Love naive fanbois like you who "believe" everything riot says and that everything riot does will work. Check my match history, this is my LEAST played account, then understand i am toxic almost every game. Then understand i have never had an account banned and my behavior hasnt changed in 4 years of playing. That is the current system at work.... Now you go on pretending lytes horseshit system is going to protect you from anything or prevent abuse of any sort.

This is a HUGE mistake from riot if anything they needed to revert to a PURE solo que and remove duo from rank. This game is a cancer i force myself to suffer through finally this stupid dnaymic group for ranked will be the nail in my coffin to get to me stop playing, I know i wont be missed but my life will be better for having this cancerous game removed from my play list. The really sad part is how i see all the cancer this game promoted seep into every other mmo i play the non stop crying whining and report begging you read is truly astounding and knowing it all started here makes me cringe.

Enjoy your game time playing either with or against 4 people on voice coms and then feeling their wrath when things don't work out for THEM. Based on my past experience i am sure the "automated chat ban system" will protect you very well :)

VerxintNov 5, 20151 votes

The "report this guy who hurt my feelings" syndrome has existed long before league.

I've been reported in runescape for telling someone their weapon was bad and for telling someone I didn't believe in god. I got reported for going to a group of people cheering for Zamorak and chanting Gunthix.

I've been petitioned in Eve Online for killing people in PvP (was fairly common)

I've had people report my Xbox live account for doing well in a match of Halo 3, or for telling someone their aim was bad and they shouldn't be using a sniper.

I've had endless instances of people raging and leaving starcraft games for any number of absolutely silly reasons.

My last decade of gaming is full of people seeking senseless vindication for how I've affected their personal feelings in some complethey irratonal way. It's not new in league. It's just people.

As far as "toxic every game". What do you mean. Angry and condescending? I am too. I don't think that's what riot targets most.

The people they punish are the ones who can't go 4 games without wishing cancer and aids upon 9 other people. The ones who aren't even raging at their teammates, they're just raging.These people don't belong in any online game. They belong in a therapists office.

Angrily trying to be constructive, which many entitled brats think is toxic, isn't really that toxic. It's often not helpful, but there's a difference between "if you fucking retards can avoid doing something completley mindleslsly stupid for 2 minutes, I can push thier inhib" (actual in game quote by me) and "u fucking noob shit I hope your mom gets cancer go uninstall you n@@@@r fuck you trash %%%got".

There are people who actually think the latter is an okay form of interacting with other humans. I don't want them in any game I play. I don't think it's as easy to get banned for the former.

AtheosisXNov 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadCast Fenris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EAnUqTn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-04T16:20:59.069+0000)

Another major point...Riot stated it's close to a 95% chance you will be matched with and against a similar group structure. So 5 man will get with 5 man, 4+1 will get will 4+1, and it will be extremely rare cases where a 5 man would go against all randoms.

And those of us who don't want to be a +1? Screw us right?

Also if you believe that 95% number you are horribly naive.

My Waifu VanillaNov 4, 20153 votes

And probably 75%+ of the games you are the +1 you will get carried due to the rest of your team having good teamwork. Didn't know people would complain about a potentially free win. You all make it sound like that 95% chance of that game has a 100% chance to be made of 4 trolls ready to ruin your day.

DrCyanideNov 4, 20151 votes

That 95% number is based on the current numbers for Normal Draft. What numbers do you have otherwise?

AtheosisXNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That 95% number is based on the current numbers for Normal Draft. What numbers do you have otherwise?

And the numbers for normals have been released? Or is that Riot just saying it's the case and you believe them? Riot also claims toxicity in the community is like 1%, and we all know that's not true.

DrCyanideNov 5, 20153 votes

If I recall correctly their toxic-enough-for-punishment stats are somewhere near 3-5%, which is consistent with what I observe myself (one overly toxic player every 20 games or so).

As for releasing numbers, we both know you'd instantly suspect the numbers of being falsified in some way, so that wouldn't help you either. If you want numbers on this matter from a source other than Riot, start working the data yourself. Figure out how NA.OP.GG gets their normal data, build out a list of friends that players have, and see who gets matchmade with who. If that's too much work for too little reward then I suggest you be satisfied with the stats that Riot has given on the subject.

WeFlyNoLieNov 4, 20153 votes

Its because people just like to circle jerk and jump on the bandwagon without reading the facts.

Honestly I think this is a great implementation.

Along with the new champion select you pick the roles you prefer and the champion you would like to play before bans even take place. You'll never be put in a role you don't want to play and you can queue up with friends without requiring a 5 man team.

Plus people like to bitch about things before even trying them.

FragglerocNov 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadCast Fenris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EAnUqTn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-04T16:20:59.069+0000)

Another major point...Riot stated it's close to a 95% chance you will be matched with and against a similar group structure. So 5 man will get with 5 man, 4+1 will get will 4+1, and it will be extremely rare cases where a 5 man would go against all randoms.

that's your problem right there = 4+1 will go against 4+1

Mister SupportNov 4, 20153 votes

And how is that an issue? It makes the match more fair (and in the case of people thinking that the 4 will gang up on the 1 person, you, and try to force a loss, the chance would then be the same to happen to the other person on the enemy team).

JackMcSnipeyzNov 4, 201510 votes

You really fear that you'll get matched with 4 people who will surrender just cause youre at promos? What has bigger odds? 4 people grouping together, finding you in your promos and then surrender on porpase? Or that 1 of 4 complete strangers just goes apeshit and feeds?

Stop acting like all parties will do nothing but try to ruin your game, no one gives a shit about you, we just wanna win just like you do.

RyzeReworkNov 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You really fear that you'll get matched with 4 people who will surrender just cause youre at promos? What has bigger odds? 4 people grouping together, finding you in your promos and then surrender on porpase? Or that 1 of 4 complete strangers just goes apeshit and feeds?

Stop acting like all parties will do nothing but try to ruin your game, no one gives a shit about you, we just wanna win just like you do.

I've had people feed on purpose because I was a win away from promos

TwëekNov 4, 201510 votes

If four people are queuing up for ranked together (not norms, as we're used to), chances are their priority is winning as opposed to screwing around. The vast majority of people queuing up for ranked have gaining LP as their priority.

slippykittenNov 4, 20159 votes

The cause of toxicity is being trolled, which causes people to troll others. When people are allowed to play with who they want, in the position and role they want, they will be less likely to be toxic, which will make them less likely to troll.

There aren't actually very many "trolls", there are just angry, frustrated players. Remove the frustration (which is what this does) and you remove most of trolling.

GuiltyGeckoNov 4, 20153 votes

This basically. The few trolls we end up with after this update will be the genuine assholes of the community, and will stick out like a sore thumb which should lead to a more swift banning process.

Stevev45Nov 4, 20152 votes

I want to play with 4 random people, and I want the other team to be 5 random people. Do I get what I want?

DrCyanideNov 4, 20153 votes

According to Lyte, you almost never have that right now, with almost every game having at least one duo in it. If you want to play with 9 completely unrelated players, you should look into a different game.

SaiannaNov 4, 20156 votes

It goes other way around aswell..

4-man premade and troll as fifth. Even worse if Troll picks important role (like ADC or TOP). It hurts just as much.

KeyoshiNov 4, 20153 votes

I love league of legends, i love working as a team with random people, what i dont like is playing with people by choice. I have friends i play with but we play for fun and just mess around you know? I would never played ranked with them because i just like playing by myself and climbing by myself. I really wish they wouldn't do this for soloq, they have their own to play in. They have ranked teams, this just seems unfair to me because if i have taht 5% chance knowing my luck i'd probably go against a premade team which just ins't fair.

SojsNov 4, 20153 votes

why would you be mad if you got matched into a 4 man group?

great they are on voice chat and working together just follow their calls

wow what an easy win!

My Waifu VanillaNov 4, 20152 votes

This one is MUCH more likely than 4 people all playing against you since all 4 of them would lose 15 LP or so for the loss or potentially their own promos. I havent seen a troll in ages and this new system will keep it that way since there will be no more champ select hostages since they will almost always get their preferred role and if they don't go to their assigned role it is iirc a bannable or at least temp ban offense if it is done multiple times.

FiskNov 4, 20153 votes

If we are honest though guys, trolling is trolling. Report them and hope they get banned (lyte smites inc). Beyond that from what I've seen, first off people troll normals because there is little real and immediate consequence. Sure you could get banned if you do it a lot but there was no real reason not to troll in normals. In general, way less people troll ranked because wasted lp. If a troll queue wants to troll they will just do normals where they won't get dropped in elo for trolling.

SammystormNov 5, 20152 votes

Kind of off topic but lack of consequence compared to something like leaving a game is irksome.

JustMyBassCannonNov 5, 20152 votes

Why is everyone immediately assuming that 4-man premades will mean more trolls?

Does it give small groups more power? Yes. Does it mean that every one of them will turn into trolls for it? Not likely.

Synx7Nov 5, 20152 votes

I guess riot gotta learn what the fuck SOLO QUEUE means.

FeathermaneNov 4, 20151 votes

If you enter a lobby with the words 'please tryhard, these are my promos', you deserve to get trolled, even though I doubt you will.

The only real problem with premades is that they lock you into roles you may not want, because for them duo bot or mid+jungle is non-negotiable.

Unlucky Number7Nov 4, 20152 votes

they are introducing ranked teambuilder with this as well. problem = solved.

Mister SupportNov 4, 20152 votes

You select the roles you want to play and only get the roles you selected, so if you get a role that you don't want and it was the only role spot left because of the premade, then don't queue up with that role selected.

ZarkkastNov 4, 20151 votes

Yeah, cause the chance of getting 4 people fully dedicated to ruin one person's game is a lot bigger than the chance of getting multiple one persons trolling every single game.

Most of the time when you get in a 4-premade you are lucky. The four are in a team, your chances of winning are bigger. Not gonna deny the existence of group trolls, but they're A LOT less frequent than solo trolls, which you can get multiples in one single game. Solo trolls ruin nearly every game, at least in lower elo. Premade trolls are an extreme nuisance, but a rare one at that.

My Waifu VanillaNov 4, 20152 votes

Like I said earlier the chances of you getting stuck in the 4 man premade is already low and the chance they are all going to troll just to mess with you and lose their OWN LP is even lower. The chances are so stacked against it and if anything Riot should just make an option to have a genuine solo queue via check box before you queue (not like it will change your solo queue time but may sort of increase group but they should know that going in).

551202Nov 4, 20151 votes

Rip ranked... 4-5 premades can use software like skype or curse voice to easily communicate between them which is some kind of CHEAT imo.

My Waifu VanillaNov 4, 20153 votes

You can use curse voice with randoms starting in the lobby if they agree to do so. If you do not want to capitalize on that option that is your decision for potentially gimping yourself by being the team without the easy to access voice chat.